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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:01 am 
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work bell rang... I'll finish this up at 10am!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:42 am 
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so anyway... Yea... Out of the blue... And as I had posted in past rants... I'd gotten clean for like almost a year and a half! After all that and being so badly on oxy's and other painkillers etc.... Again, as I said... I cannot even connect to that time period... I can't sit here and tell if it was easy or hard, how long it took... How it felt...NOTHING!! It drives me insane trying to go back... I remember person, places, things... Some historical references, but NOTHING About why or how I did it. Again, all without even knowing suboxone existed.

I again got bored I guess...who knows why... Were addicts. Met an old friend from school, was on roxies, and said hey... Here. To put it into perspective... Because I was clean and working so much I had literally had something like 4 or 5 grand of cash hidden. I used to not trust banks... Lame right? In less than a month... 30 days....GONE!!! Every red cent. Back on the train. At one point I even got up to 6 or 7 80 s a day... No consistently tho. I could never of financially support a habit that high up in dose. The more I took, I didn't get high... I just got normal. In that time I would alternate between subs and oxy when whatever was around at the time. BTW, it was early 2007 when I was clean.

There's the trend that stuck for a good bit. Then, by my own choice... I decided to go painpill free... Take my subs... And finish this shit! That was 2009. There I stayed... A consistent regimine of sub for damn near 3 Years!!

Honestly haven't thought of or taken anything other than sub since then!!

Then my story ended 12 days ago... And impending life has started. Reality is a hell of a drug in itself! I'm already thinking differently.... Seeing, hearing everything different. It's a wild ride man!

here is day 12... I actually was able to stay in bed all night... Didn't shoot up or have to pace or goto the couch... It was light sleep and I awoke like 8 times but it was a big deal just to stay put for once... I'm tired man... Groggy.... A lil fuzzy too... Still cold as well.... I don't know... I'm pushing through! I'm not fuckin around anymore! This is real! I declared war on my body!!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:05 pm 
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Romeo... Be honest with my dude.... I can deal with it... I know I can.... Since we have similarities here.... At which did you start feeling like a human being again?????????


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:55 pm 
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QUICK NOTE: WHEN I WAS TALKING ABOUT LAST NIGHT, AND SAID DIDN't SHOOT UP OR ANYTHING! I MEANT LITERALLY shoot my body up and jerk in discomfort. NOT SHOOTING DOPE OR PILLS[/b]!!!

NO NEEDLES HAVE EVER TOUCHED MY BODY FOR THE SAKE OF GETTING HIGH!

sorry, just had to clear that up![u]


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 Post subject: sub period
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:36 pm 
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Hi VT-

Hope the day is going well. Was reading your last post, and, if I read the earlier ones correctly, you had a period of subs only= but did not use a dr for them. If one is hooked up with a sub dr. the dose tends to be similar and constant. Were you taking a standard dose those 3 years? Or was it all over the place? Just wondering.

How are you dealing with that commute?

M


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:29 pm 
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Hey VariTech, the question of when will you feel human again has to be one of thee hardest questions I get asked. I wish I had an answer for you, but I really don't. Suboxone wd, from what I've seen and read, is very individualized.

The fact that you were able to stay in bed last night is HUGE. It took me a lot longer than 12 days to do that simple thing, but then again, by the time I finally quit drugs, I had been abusing for almost as long as you've been alive!! Yep, I had a LOT of "stupid" to undo and it took a long time. I was 42 years old when I got off of Suboxone, you're 28. You are, no doubt, in much better shape than I was when I quit Suboxone.

Here's what I do know for sure. Us high jumpers go through Acute Wd first, it usually lasts somewhere up to 10 days or so. At that point, we usually enter PAWS (Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome). Predicting PAWS is like trying to deal with a wild squirrel, there really is no way of telling how mean that little SOB is gonna be OR how long he's gonna stick around and bug you. PAWS is basically a mild version of what you're going through right now. PAWS can last for a long time dude.....months and months. All the while, you are learning to live life without drugs and that is a Bee-Aw-Tch!! Life absolutely sucks at times and without our nice comfy drugs to numb us out, it may seem unbearable, but it's not. You just gotta keep putting one foot in front of the other and learn how to live again.

To be completely honest, you're doing phenomally well for jumping off a high dose like you did. Without even being fully aware of it, you've been making SO many right choices that have made your wd pretty tolerable. The fact that you've been going to work....100 bonus points. Keeping your attitude positive and being a warrior.....100 bonus points. Reaching out on this forum and participating.....100 bonus points.

Try not to focus on an end date, you will keep getting better. You will also have those rollercoaster days too though. Something I always did was forced myself to look back to how I was the week before, only then did I realize how much better I had got during the course of the current week. Looking back and being reminded of how bad I WAS taught me to look forward and have hope for how much better I was going to be.

Hang in there, man. You're doing amazingly well with all of this!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:43 am 
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Scruff,

I hear ya man... Yea.... Verrrrrrry erratic... Some days maybe 16 or a lil more... Others I'd forget to take anything... Than 8... Than 4. So yea...ALL OVER! 8mg, one a day was my usual tho. More than most days!

Romeo,

I know that's a doozy of a question... It's all relative to YOUR experience. I get it! I've done my homework on PAWS... I'm READY ABLE AND WILLING To take it in stride and keep one foot in front of the other! I know I can do it! Thank you so very much for being so supportive and enthusiastic about all this! It's people like yourself that I lacked in years past! I'm thankful this forum exists. I will continue to share my experience and welcome all and one to share as well! Thanks man! So encouraging!

it's day 13 ... Spooky! Hehe... Yea, but heres the thing... I woke up this morning... Still dead tired and sore... But I had pep in my step... I had good feelings... Dare I say... I was in a good mood! I was even able to crack a joke at 4:45am to my lady. I got outta the shower and felt somewhat energized... I whistled during my commute.. Air drummed... I felt good! The chills disappeared... I feel... Decent! I was able to roll up my sleeves today for the first time... Even broke a sweat because... I was HOT! I was workin at a crazy pace! Got my groove back a bit!

I am by no means at 100%... But ya know what? I can live with this! I made the mistake of a 5 hour energy... Got me feelin funky and seein stars for a moment... And I've evened out a bit since... Meanwhile... I'm anxious to see how the rest of this day pans out.

BTW Scruffy.... THE COMMUTE CONTINUES TO SUCK!!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:12 am 
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Hi - Brief history as this's not about me.. I'm 42 and preg by some weird fluke for 1st time in 22 years! Was on methadone for 15yrs after a 2 yr struggle with dilaudid. Then switched to subutex 12 mg for past 3 mo. bc pregnant. I've come from 12 to 4 in 2 weeks and now HAVE to go to 2 and get off as I'm 30wks now. (ive also been on valium the same amount of time & just came off that jan 15- & thats still hard!) I kno My place is supposed to b n the 'pregnancy ward' of the forum, & that's y I've been hesitant to say anything till now- but this is the best info I've found so far. (I've been reading for weeks but just posted yesterday- no replies yet).
I just want u to kno that your story has helped to calm my fears somewhat when nothing else I've found has. because I'm about to jump off at 2mg & thought that was high- u jumping off at 8 has really inspired me that I can do it. I've been so scared I've made myself sick. Every detail u write about is helping me and I kno it will help others as well. I went through 7 days of wd's last month that scared me senseless while waiting on a refill. now I'm encouraged by your story - and Romeos replies that I can go all the way with patience & determination. THANK U!!

I guess bottom line - I'm watching u n this journey against the odds... Keep it up and i am truly cheering u on!! In about a week it'll b me going on the roller coaster ride. Thank u for being so honest and detailed; its eases my apprehension!!!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:31 am 
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VariTech, I decided to join n wen I read u welcoming anyone and all to share so I hope its ok.. & I want to ask Romeo - U said u can't tell anyone how long PAWS will last - maybe months- but personally, how long hav u been off and r u back to 'normal' now?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:02 am 
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Wow....I almost teared up reading that. Short of me getting support for myself. This is Exactly what I had hoped to do! I could of only dreamed of inspiring someone and helping! God that means more than you know... And to think, an hour ago I was cursing at a rock that slammed into my windshield on the way up to work! (didnt spread yet) Congrats on the pregnancy... Although I could never begin to put myself in your situation, I think right off the bat, you have the end all beat all of inspiration to make the jump when You Feel ready! This place has been an amazing resource for me as it has been for my sanity as well! I am 14 days today, off of suboxone, and yes from jumping HIGH. It's been a struggle and an emotional spiral... But I cannot believe I made it this far! 2 weeks! Holy shit! Right? I can say with confidence that alot of the acute stage is subsiding. Yesterday was my best day, I an only hope today is even better. Last night was rough, and when I say rough, I mean I had a bout with being cold and chills for a few hours, but shortly subsided before bed. I've been able to remain in bed for a few days now. Yes, I'm waking up 5 or 6 times, but I can't say it's ANYTHING compared to a week ago. My body is saying "screw you!" in the way of me just feeling drained and tired....Im continuallt impressed by my resiliency in all this tho. I'm fighting tooth and nail each day! I swear I've had no help chemicly in all this with the exception of over the counter sleep aids and vitimans.... IT's POSSIBLE!! IT's MORE THAN POSSIBLE!! God is it ever! I get a smile on my face each time I say this! How encouraging that I helped others... I'm not going to stop sharing and relating and going through this with ya guys! It's important to me that it's known that I did this! I'll talk later! Much work to be done ... And the faster I go the better I feel!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:27 am 
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Hey Glorydays, I've read both of your threads and I'm sorry no one has responded. Myself, I was too nervous to respond to your thread, I reallly don't like giving pregnant women advice because there is just so much that can wrong. About the only thing that I thought that may help you is to ask your primary care physician to prescribe you Suboxone. He can prescribe you Suboxone if he's prescribing it for pain. It's only when Suboxone is prescribed to treat opiate addiction that doctors need the special waiver. I'll let you know right now, most doctors haven't even heard of Suboxone so he probably won't give it to you.

I've been off Suboxone for 1 year and 9 months now and I'm pretty much normal. I still have some body temp fluctuations and some minor sleep issues, but I really think those are more related to my anxiety.

Varitech, Rock On brother!!

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:36 pm 
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I'm glad u r staying n bed now. How many hours total r u getting? Hey - have u gone back and read your thread from the beginning? There is no way u couldnt b encouraged by that! I sure am. It really does seem like -as Romeo said - its a 'wave' pattern... With the peaks getting higher, and the valleys not dipping as low.. Is that right?? Keep it up - you have an AMAZING story!!!

Romeo- do u kno if ER docs can prescribe subs- for pain? I can't find a doc do far who will work with me & when I called the ER they said they couldn't give that info over the phone. frustrated.

I was so glad to hear from both of u


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:02 pm 
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Glorydays, to the best of my knowledge, the E.R. can prescribe Suboxone, I think they can give you enough for 3 days? I sure hope everything turns out OK for you. You're in a pretty hard spot. I wish I could be of more help to you.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:18 pm 
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Glory,

I'm probably getting between 3 or 4 hours of VERY light sleep. I'm not going to lie and say that its been tolerable... because its not. As I posted awhile... my job can get very fast paced and physical at times. So my gauge is that it is indeed enough to function without harming yourself or others. I mean, if I can sleep an hour and not a solid hour, I mean here and there a few minutes off and on; and still drive 2 hours to work and work for 9 hours.... I cant help but feel like its ok. Yes, sleep deprivation can be detrimental in hindering the body's healing processes, but its been do-able for sure. I have read back threads and yes... its VERY VERY encouraging. Like Romeo said, the best way to know how your doing is to look back on days prior to the present. So since for me, this has been me counting every hour of everyday... I am definitely VERY aware of my day to day improvements and set backs. It is indeed much like a wavelength. For me; I have never been more aware of my body. mind, and senses during all this. Its been wild.... refreshing, tough, rewarding... and I couldn't be happier. I cannot begin to express my gratitude for suboxone. Ive gained my life in light of it... and now... anything is possible. Ive never had a clearer mind. I know I can literally get through anything at this point.... its not impossible.... BY NO MEANS IS IT IMPOSSIBLE. Its scary, and it like Romeo said will try to break you... but even though I'm still considerably early in this, its empowering for me personally. I just needed to do it. For my girl, and myself respectively. I had support this time.... VERY IMPORTANT! Reach out to friends and family that will understand and be willing to assist you and comfort you in anyway, or an significant other.

Don't hesitate to ask questions.... use this place to your advantage...its an invaluable resource in all facets of Sub and recovery.

As far as PAWS goes... In my research, it seems to be more with bouts of the mind, body and soul. More less physical discomfort, than the acute stages. I feel that much like suboxone detox, the internet is full of misinformation and outrageous theories, along with sensational facts based on opinion. This indeed is a personalized experience. As Romeo again, stated in past. Everything is based on YOU ALONE. That's why I ended up here. Honest people, wanting honest answers. Getting and giving the best they can. With that said. Again, from all my research, I've compiled one common theme. Short term memory loss, depression, erratic mood, and fuzzy logic. The brain is still recovering, and will be for quite some time long after any acute symptoms subside. So naturally... things can and will seem off. Moreover, the person... (us) will be learning to live life without a crutch, and without a dependency. I liked how it was put earlier in my thread from TearJrkr, learning to deal with the discomforts and emotions that "normal" people experience. Considering for a large portion of our lives, we have always dosed, or used something to take the edge off. EVERYTHING IS RELATIVE TO YOUR PERSONAL STORY. This has been by far my favorite PAWS informational website: http://digital-dharma.net/post-acute-wi ... mediately/

This gave me a lot of hope because A:, I've been clean for over a year in years past without knowing sub existed and remember how I felt, but not how I did it. B: I now have someone to share this with, and have unconditional love and support. It seems in all about our bodies.... looks like if you have bad knees, like myself.. then your knees will get hard hit and will be more affected than someone who may have a bad back, or issues in the upper body.

All in all.... I can say with sincere and complete confidence that I am in this for the long haul! I am ready willing and able to accept what comes along in stride. Believe me! Don't give up on yourself.... you owe it to yourself to get and TAKE what you want out of this life! WE ONLY GET TO DO THIS ONCE!!! WHY NOT MAKE IT COUNT DAMNIT! I say that to myself day in and day out like a damn mantra. Its insane how much ive learned about myself during this. Its been a wild ride man! Its far from over and I have never been happier... NEVER!

By the way: Its winding down day 14. I am indeed very tired and wiped out. the only symptom at the moment that still seems to be alive and kicking and has no subsided one damn bit... THE SNEEZING!! I laugh at this one, and had assumed and hoped it was the most mild; assumed it would be one of the first to subside. But nope! My co-workers continue to stray from me at all cost during my episodes. I have blamed it on dust and smoke for the most part, and for those who don't know what im going through. My legs are still a nuisance, but not EVEN close to the severity it was in past. Day by day I FEEL myself slipping away from this. No matter what comes my way... I'll be able to counter with something... I knew I was a tough dude before this... but now I've really proved myself a rock of sorts. I wanna be there for myself for once... I want to feel happiness.... I WANT TO FEEL SOMETHING. I feel like I've been numb and asleep for too long, and I wanna live this short existence once and for all. I gave up on myself a long time ago... Finally.... Im working on myself. no joke... this is the REAL DEAL!!

I am again by no means done! See you all later! Good night and good luck! Nothin but love for all of you! I hope readers in passing can get something from this. Short of you, GLORYDAYS. I'd love to know if I've inspired or helped anyone else. More for you guys.... but for me... it makes me feel eons better just knowing I've done some kind of good. It's kind of been my goal my entire life... to help those who just needed a little push... and to help those that want it! I was born to be, and even went to school (briefly, I might add) to help others. I've seen and been through many MANY hardships and struggles in my short time on this earth... I know that this is possible again. I CAN HANDLE THIS... most importantly.... SO CAN YOU!!!


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 Post subject: You Go
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:32 pm 
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VariTech,

I just read all of your posts. WOW, you are strong.

I have been on Suboxone for six years at 32mg for addiction/pain management. I have had procedures and my pain is much better so I wanted to get of the Sub, my doc switched me to Duragesic Patch 100 mcgs and day eight off the sub I went into severe withdraws. It was the most horrible thing ever, as you know. I ended up getting a new doc that better knew how to help me, the old one left me hanging and I was on the verge of taking my life due to the withdraw pain. We even increased the Duragesic to 200mcg, I am a 126lb female and it would not touch me.

So now I have tried to taper slowly off of the Sub, it has been really tough but I know it will get worse once I have to jump, I was there twice before, but the doc now says I tapered too fast. How you have done this is amazing, I could not get out of bed, never mind going in to work!! I have to commend you, that is wonderful. Knowing you have gotten this far gives me so much hope, I only pray I can be any where as near as strong as you have been.

Have you had any help with any thing to help with the muscle aches?? Baclofen really helps, clonidine too but it can make you sleepy. I have all of these things to help me when I get low but am planning on taking several weeks off work. The sub experts have advised me that the longer you are on and the higher dose, the longer and more sever the w/d will be. I am in for pure !@#$ and I know it. Sub binds so much to the mu receptors it takes months for all of it to get out of your system, this is why you are still sneezing and having the aches still.

I have done months of research everywhere to prepare for my taper/jump coming up soon. If you can find a sauna or hot tub, it will help. Use it as much as you can. Have a body wrap where they cover you in some special stuff that helps to detox, it feels good and will push some of that crap out of you body, (done in salons, massage parlors, some nail places) a deep tissue massage releases endorphins which you need and helps rid the body of the crappy stuff also. Imodium (in slightly large doses, not too much let me know if you want to try it) will help clean the receptors and might even help with the sneezing, which I am told can go on for months. I am looking into the reason for this. SO weird.

Please keep things posted here, I am really amazed and I know I do not know you but from one addict to another, I am proud of you. Remember this !@#$ when your addict self tells you "just one time, this will be different, I can handle it, I was different before, I have control now" Tell that voice to SHUT UP, you have worked too hard to lose this, keep fighting.
I will be heading into to the !@#$ of withdraw soon and I am scared really bad, your story is very uplifting, knowing that you did and are getting through it. Just remember the PAWS can last close to 18 months after sub, but it will get better.
Great Job, hope to hear how you are soon I have alot of information if you desire some, I can post it all here.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:40 pm 
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Glorydays wrote:
Hi - Brief history as this's not about me.. I'm 42 and preg by some weird fluke for 1st time in 22 years! Was on methadone for 15yrs after a 2 yr struggle with dilaudid. Then switched to subutex 12 mg for past 3 mo. bc pregnant. I've come from 12 to 4 in 2 weeks and now HAVE to go to 2 and get off as I'm 30wks now. (ive also been on valium the same amount of time & just came off that jan 15- & thats still hard!) I kno My place is supposed to b n the 'pregnancy ward' of the forum, & that's y I've been hesitant to say anything till now- but this is the best info I've found so far. (I've been reading for weeks but just posted yesterday- no replies yet).
I just want u to kno that your story has helped to calm my fears somewhat when nothing else I've found has. because I'm about to jump off at 2mg & thought that was high- u jumping off at 8 has really inspired me that I can do it. I've been so scared I've made myself sick. Every detail u write about is helping me and I kno it will help others as well. I went through 7 days of wd's last month that scared me senseless while waiting on a refill. now I'm encouraged by your story - and Romeos replies that I can go all the way with patience & determination. THANK U!!

I guess bottom line - I'm watching u n this journey against the odds... Keep it up and i am truly cheering u on!! In about a week it'll b me going on the roller coaster ride. Thank u for being so honest and detailed; its eases my apprehension!!!


Hey Girl,

I just found this new forum. I cannot give many details but I can tell you some "facts" about pregnancy and suboxone due to the nature of my work, that is all I can say. Why are you coming off now?? This should not happen while you are pregnant, you should be allowed to taper to a point to help ensure the baby does not have major withdraw but coming off you WILL be in withdraw and that and pregnancy does not mix. Let me know why you are coming off and I will tell you as much as I can but they should be working on this for your health and the life of that little one. Some docs do not know enough about this but they need to know.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:20 pm 
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Hi VT,

Following the story and am pulling for you. I don't have too much information right now, but reading I did remember some things imbedded in the far reaches of my brain about 'intolerable'. Have had some close up experiences with it - and one really critical one some time ago. There is something about the survival instinct that responds to intolerable with a a sudden break. At the time it seems like it will never come, but then, I remember thinking, this is really critical and it cannot go beyond this, it just cannot. And amazingly, rather than dying or fainting, it just broke and got better and allowed me to carry on. I don't know why or what happened, but it did. I remember I did not know what was going to happen at all, just that it had to be something. I was very happy that it was what it was. I hope that happens - I think it is part of our makeup in extremes.
You have my prayers.

the S


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:37 pm 
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Varitech,

That digital dharma PAWS site is my favorite PAWS site too. Bill and I have spoke several times, he's a super sharp dude. Early in my wd I would post on that site about my lack of sleep and he would always tell me how lack of sleep never killed anyone.....that always made me want to throw him through a window!! But he was right, and you are too. I suffered from severe lack of sleep during my early wd and I was AMAZED that I could work all day, get everything done that I needed to and this was all on 3 or 4 hours of sleep. As time went by and I got better and better I clearly remember how incredibly strong I felt for having survived everything I had been through, I posted somewhere on here about feeling like I could bench press a skyscraper!! LOL!!

I'm not sure what your sleep pattern is, but my issue was a severe delay in the onset of sleep. I wasn't falling asleep until 5am!! Sitting there wide awake at 1am, 2am, 3am, 4am SUCKS!! I finally started taking Clonidine at day 30 of my wd and instantly I was falling asleep by 2am or 3am. Then, I started training my brain, in about 15 minute increments, to go to bed earlier and earlier week by week. It took a long time, but I eventually got my brain trained to go to sleep around 11pm. Like I had mentioned in an earlier post, your wd is going to throw a bunch of crap at you, you have to adapt and overcome.....and I have complete faith that you will do just that because you're a warrior!!!

I like how you brought up the support you have and the unconditonal love you get, I received the same thing from my wife and daughter. Without them, I honestly don't know that I would have made it.

ontoolong, I hear the worry in your voice and I feel for you. My best advice to you is to keep tapering. Laddertipper, she's a member here who tapered off successfully, she hit a lot of rough spots during her taper too. If I remember correctly, she hit some rough spots right around where you're at now, but she kept on pushing forward and she jumped from about .0625mg over 6 months ago now. She experienced almost nothing in the way of acute wd, but she did have some mild PAWS. Laddertipper has a post in the Stopping Suboxone section titled I AM S.T.U.C.K. and I think it would be a good read for you. BTW, she was on Suboxone for 6 years too AND she was on 32mg for a good while!

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 Post subject: Good Job
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:16 am 
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Good JOb V!!!
COngrats!!!!!1!!!!

I am on 2 mg and find it hard to get below 2mg... Get in a losy mood and anxiety.... have u had anxiety?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:28 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:27 am
Posts: 21
Varitech, Benadryl stopped the sneezing for me but it might make u drowsy... I can't remember if I read that u tried that or not.. I want to say afew more things but sleep calls - don't want to miss out on a few hours :)

& ontoolong, thank u for ur interest!.. I hav got to try & sleep a couple hours NOW before my man gets home & snores me onto the couch, but check back a lil later please I'd like to give u that info.. Btw, almost hate to ask - shows my ignorance about forums but how did u pull up my mssge & respond directly to me in this thread

Romeo - thanks for info -

Back soon to this life saver of a thread..


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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