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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:20 pm 
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kinetix,

I'm going to start off with the really important part first :D You're getting back together with your girl! Oh yeah, that's what I'm talking about, a man has needs. You must have 'it' bad...I just listened to that Johnny Cash or was it Waylon Jennings, no, no Kenny Rogers, wait...it was Don Williams (they all sound the same :wink: ). It Must Be Love, yeah you're in deep. Haa. Really, I'm happy for you and hope everything goes great. Take it from Romeo, turn up the romance and charm and everything will go great!

Now, down to business. As I was reading your post I was mentally checking all of your symptoms against the ones I had experienced. Anxiety, check. Sweats, check. Hate the smell of my cigs, check. Senses have woken up, check. You're right on the money. Good news is that they will all subside and if you decide to you will be able to eat chocolate, drink coffee, etc. again.

I commend you on your awesome efforts and hope you are able to quit smoking easily.

I took a stab at quitting smoking a few weeks ago, even though I didn't really want to. Didn't quite make it. Now, I would just like to slow down. For 15 years I only smoked 6 or 7 cigs a day and I am aiming to get back there. I went from 1.5 packs a day to 15 cigs a day now.

You mentioned the rewarding self accomplished feeling you have...doesn't it feel good to feel good again!


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 Post subject: Good Job!!!!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:09 pm 
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Wow, Kinetix, you're still plugging along and you seem incredibly committed. You deserve to have good things happen in your life, like this girlfriend. I wish she could read a whole bunch of testimonials or something that would help her understand just how HUGE a feat cold turkeying Sub is. I actually think boot camp would be a lot easier!

The sweats thing and the anxiety thing...ugh....I can't believe it's triggered by CHOCOLATE!!! Bad, bad news for me, and for any other normal woman. We women love, love, love our chocolate. I cannot believe that in addition to Sub, you gave up caffeine.

Chantix does work. I've known a lot of people quit using it, most impressively my sister, who I believed was destined to smoke forever. It may make you feel really sick to your stomach when you smell or even think of cigarettes. That's what my sister went through. She quit smoking because she barfed at the idea of it. Just warning you, :)

Good luck with your girl!!!!

laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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 Post subject: Re: congrats!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 9:08 am 
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KellyB wrote:
Congratulations on your jump!

I tapered down and have 3 weeks off now.

What kind of plan did you design for ensuring no return to the opiates? I looked around and could find nothing other than 12 step arggh!! I wish there was another way. Maybe someone else here knows of another way?


There IS another way. It started out as "Rational Recovery" about 20 or more years ago, but is now called S.M.A.R.T. recovery. If you're interested in checking it out, here's the FAQ web site:

http://www.smartrecovery.org/resources/faq.htm


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:09 pm 
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Junkie, I would like to hear more about your experiences with 'rational recovery'-- if you haven't already, consider sharing your perspective on that approach in the part of the forum that deals with 'other programs' (the title of that category is 'other programs)-- it would be nice to hear about some of the other programs out there.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:45 am 
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It's been a while since I posted, but I thought I should provide an update. It's been about a month and 2 weeks since I quit Suboxone. I can sleep on my own which is awesome, but I still get a bit of fatigue and sweating. I recently switched back to my old deodorant. I was using an antiperspirant but I still managed to sweat and I just felt nasty. I believe the sweating is caused by drinking booze and not caffeine. I sweat the next day and even the day after, but when I do drink I stop sweating. I've only recently started drinking socially about 4 months ago. I doubt i'm experiencing alcohol withdrawal, but I suppose it could be amplified by Suboxone withdrawal. I know the best option would be to quit drinking. I'm wondering if I have some sort of liver damage. I used to drink hardcore and never experienced sweats like this.

I also got hit with a bit of depression last week. I could not get out of bed to go to work. That lasted a couple days and I thought it was best to start back on the Wellbutrin. What a mess : \


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 2:42 am 
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Hey, I know a few people on here have been wondering if you were okay and I'm really glad you checked in. :D

I'm a little worried about you and the drinking. I'm a former raging alcoholic....be very careful. Booze can ruin your life too. Don't underestimate it. And I first started having my liver enzymes come up bad when I was 21. Part of that is that I'm a woman and we are smaller and cannot metabolize as much liquor, but if you used to booze a lot, you really need to make sure you don't have liver damage already and just be very honest with yourself about whether or not you are on a slippery slope.

I'm so happy for you and proud of you. Thanks for checking in and letting everyone know how you are. How nice to hear that you are still getting a 'bit' of the sweats and the fatigue instead of it being horrible. That's a big difference. I love hearing that it gets better!!!! Seriously, do you realize how much that means to people like me who are tapering and maybe not feeling well?! You are saying that is DOES get better!! You aren't posting some horror story. Thank u, thank u, thank u!

laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:32 pm 
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laddertipper wrote:
Hey, I know a few people on here have been wondering if you were okay and I'm really glad you checked in. :D

I'm a little worried about you and the drinking. I'm a former raging alcoholic....be very careful. Booze can ruin your life too. Don't underestimate it. And I first started having my liver enzymes come up bad when I was 21. Part of that is that I'm a woman and we are smaller and cannot metabolize as much liquor, but if you used to booze a lot, you really need to make sure you don't have liver damage already and just be very honest with yourself about whether or not you are on a slippery slope.

I'm so happy for you and proud of you. Thanks for checking in and letting everyone know how you are. How nice to hear that you are still getting a 'bit' of the sweats and the fatigue instead of it being horrible. That's a big difference. I love hearing that it gets better!!!! Seriously, do you realize how much that means to people like me who are tapering and maybe not feeling well?! You are saying that is DOES get better!! You aren't posting some horror story. Thank u, thank u, thank u!

laddertipper


Yea the last thing I want to do is replace one substance with another. It definitely gets in the way of my weight lifting and has made me late to work a couple times in the past few months. The depression and alcohol are my concern right now. My date didn't go down and I really want to go out and meet some people, but I'm nervous because head is all over the place. Plus the sweating is a nasty and does not make me feel attractive lol. It's only under my right arm that I sweat. It's so weird. I'm not going to drink for a week or so to see if it stops. But yes the withdrawals do get much better. Hope you all had a good Xmas.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:50 pm 
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Kinetix,

You did jump from a pretty high dose, I wonder if that's part of the reason you're still experiencing some wd symptoms? I'm bummed out about your current situation, but I have to believe it will get better. I'm glad you decided to start back on your wellbutrin, depression is not something to mess around with...especially while in wd.

I hope you feel well enough to post a little more so we can try and help you out. There are several of us who certainly missed you and would like to help in any way we can. Sometimes just posting about your shitty day will help you feel better, I know it's helped me before.

Try to keep your head, buddy.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:13 am 
kinetix wrote:
Like the title says i'm 9 days into sub withdrawals. The only remaining symptoms are a little bit of sweating. Not so much cold sweats anymore. I'm fatigued. I forced myself to workout on day 6 and 7 and it was a bear. I went to a funeral yesterday and the church session made me very emotional. My stomach is still churning. Which i suppose is ok since I was extremely bound up before hand. I'm taking a 1/4 of a .1mg Clonidine about twice a day and it seems to help but does infact make me tired. I watched SuboxDoc's videos on youtube about Suboxone withdrawal being the worst. But i'd have to say I never would have made it this far coming off of a real pain killer. It's lingering longer than I had wished and every day is a very minute improvement. But I'm trying to stay optimistic that this won't last much longer. It is wearing on my mind badly. I figured i'd share my withdrawal experience coming off such a high dose. Any input or encouragement would be appreciated. Thank you.

Edit. I also tried GABA to help with anxiety/sweats. But the brand I got has such a high dose of Niacin that taking even 4 pills makes me feel crappier than if I had not taken it. Which is only 800mg of GABA. Does anyone have any good experiences with GABA?


this only helps if your blood pressures wack


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:11 am 
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Romeo wrote:
Kinetix,

You did jump from a pretty high dose, I wonder if that's part of the reason you're still experiencing some wd symptoms? I'm bummed out about your current situation, but I have to believe it will get better. I'm glad you decided to start back on your wellbutrin, depression is not something to mess around with...especially while in wd.

I hope you feel well enough to post a little more so we can try and help you out. There are several of us who certainly missed you and would like to help in any way we can. Sometimes just posting about your shitty day will help you feel better, I know it's helped me before.

Try to keep your head, buddy.


Well I haven't drank since Xmas .I only had a couple drinks and I wasn't driving. I didn't sweat much yesterday, and I'm hoping today will be even better. Right now i'm fine, its just when I go to work and I'm wearing 2 layers of clothes + a jacket that gets me started. I think restarting the Wellbutrin was the right thing to do. I feel pretty good right now. I practically sprung out of bed. It's probably just a "honeymoon" effect, but its better than not wanting to get up. But yea I wouldn't be surprised if the sweats were caused by lingering withdrawals. I was on Subs for over 2 years, and I started at 24mgs and was on that for a while. Thanks for the concern, Romeo. I'm glad you and others are here to help me, its definitely appreciated.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:30 pm 
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Anytime, bud...anytime!


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 Post subject: kinetix
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:34 pm 
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Wow, you are so cool. I was worried you'd get mad at me if I 'harped' on the drinking thing. Going back on Wellbutrin is a smart move, IMO. It sounds like you were wanting to drink because you've been depressed. Certainly makes sense. In your shoes, if I needed an antidepressant to help me weather the storm, I'd have no problems taking it. You are very strong, but you are still only human. I'm so proud of you because you're coming clean with everything right away and maybe avoiding pitfalls in the process. I mean it when I say that your honesty inspires me.

Keep on going, kinetix, and lean on the people here as much as you need. I'm wishing great things will happen for you this coming year. You've done the hard work. I hope you fall in love in 2011. :wink:

laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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 Post subject: Re: kinetix
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:37 pm 
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laddertipper wrote:
Wow, you are so cool. I was worried you'd get mad at me if I 'harped' on the drinking thing. Going back on Wellbutrin is a smart move, IMO. It sounds like you were wanting to drink because you've been depressed. Certainly makes sense. In your shoes, if I needed an antidepressant to help me weather the storm, I'd have no problems taking it. You are very strong, but you are still only human. I'm so proud of you because you're coming clean with everything right away and maybe avoiding pitfalls in the process. I mean it when I say that your honesty inspires me.

Keep on going, kinetix, and lean on the people here as much as you need. I'm wishing great things will happen for you this coming year. You've done the hard work. I hope you fall in love in 2011. :wink:

laddertipper


Nah I wouldn't get mad at ya. Alcohol is very serious, and if its causing some health problems its best for me to stop. I'm glad my honesty inspires you, because for the last 5 years or so, I have not been honest about my problems. I'm sure good things will happen, I feel like i'm starting fresh : ) . We'll see about the love part. When relationships go well, they're really good. But when they go bad, its like hell lol.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:52 pm 
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Kinetix,

This may sound weird, but I'm glad you admitted you weren't necessarily honest with yourself...now you can be though and it will help you continue to move forward!


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:31 pm 
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Hey kinetix, how you doing, man?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:38 pm 
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I'm doing well. Hope everyone is having a good new year so far. A little update. I'm feeling pretty good overall, although I still get that annoying sweating under my one arm lol. I didn't drink for 5 days and I still had some sweating. I thought I was safe to drink coffee again, but I notice an hour after I have coffee is when the sweating starts. I'm going to cut out alcohol and coffee together for a while to see if it helps. I've considered seeing a therapist, mostly for anxiety. I think the reason I started getting into drugs in the first place was because of some social phobia. The anxiety isn't too bad, but if i'm put on the spot then I freeze up and I panic. I'm glad I got back on the Wellbutrin. I haven't smoked a cigarette in 3 days, and I definitely have a little more energy. I'm still sleeping just fine on my own, but the Wellbutrin gives me some crazy dreams that wake me up. I'm also slowly regaining the weight I lost. I'm still lifting, but not as much as I'd like to. Usually after a day of work i'm so exhausted that I dont want to do anything.

Oh and a song I forgot all about Days of the New - Touch, Peel and Stand ( I finally found a reason, I don't need an excuse)


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:48 pm 
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Glad to hear you're doing well. Have you considered learning meditation (AKA self-hypnosis, guided imagery, progressive relaxation)? I know many people think it's ridiculous and couldn't possibly work (I thought that, too), but it DOES work. I used to have what I thought was terrible anxiety and was on a shitload of xanax. When I started sub I also stopped the xanax and I was petrified about my anxiety. I took a chance on my therapist's suggestion to learn meditation and now I have ZERO anxiety. I'm not saying you'll end up with no anxiety, but you might be surprised at just how well it can work.

Under the "chronic pain" category, you'll find a detailed post I wrote about learning meditation. Maybe check it out?

Keep up the good work!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:06 pm 
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hatmaker510 wrote:
Glad to hear you're doing well. Have you considered learning meditation (AKA self-hypnosis, guided imagery, progressive relaxation)? I know many people think it's ridiculous and couldn't possibly work (I thought that, too), but it DOES work. I used to have what I thought was terrible anxiety and was on a shitload of xanax. When I started sub I also stopped the xanax and I was petrified about my anxiety. I took a chance on my therapist's suggestion to learn meditation and now I have ZERO anxiety. I'm not saying you'll end up with no anxiety, but you might be surprised at just how well it can work.

Under the "chronic pain" category, you'll find a detailed post I wrote about learning meditation. Maybe check it out?

Keep up the good work!


Thanks hatmaker, I actually would give meditation a shot. I would hate to be on Xanax, it's not something I've taken, but I hear is very powerful. For the first week of Sub withdrawal I was taking a half an Ativan twice a day. It helped a lot, but I don't want like the knocked out feeling. I had that enough going through Sub WDs. Do you know of any natural supplements that might calm me down, or maybe decrease my heart rate a bit? I'm sure its all related to Suboxone and is only temporary, but sometimes it hits when I least want it to.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:16 pm 
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There is one thing that I do take, but it's a prescription. It helps my tachycardia and arrhythmia (when I have it). It's a beta blocker called Metopolol (there's also atenolol). They work much better for anxiety because they slow the heart rate down, I think. But you doctor will have to do an EKG before prescribing it, but you might prefer it even over the Ativan.

And you're right - xanax is VERY strong, especially compared to Ativan or even Valium. I'm so glad I'm off that crap!

I just thought of something else...how's your fatigue lately? There's an OTC supplement called L-Carnitine. I take it for chronic fatigue. It helps a LOT!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:53 pm 
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Yeah I was reading about beta blockers. I guess they're good for performance anxiety. But for me I think adrenaline is good sometimes. I've only taken ativan for a week. I'm affraid to start taking any benzo for fear of getting hooked. I don't think i'd abuse it, but all it would take is one really bad day and i'd take more than I needed. I read your thread on mediation/ guided imagery. I'm going to check out some of the samples from that website. I know Hypnosis works, I've seen it done in person a few times, and I know it's helped a few people with quitting smoking, or weight loss. I've been reading about herbal anti anxiety supplements. They all seem to cause drowsiness or put you to sleep. The fatigue is still on an off. Sometimes I can work a whole day and not sit down. Then some other days, like today, I could barely sit in front of the computer for more than an hour before I had to lay down.

Edit: It's also good to see that meditation could potentially lower my blood pressure. I believe that's why i'm sweating. Anxiety/stress causing high blood pressure.


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