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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 7:27 pm 
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Hello, Im new here and wanted to post a reply as to what im doing for the Suboxone detox. I have been on roughly 6-8mgs varying for around 1-2mos now. I am now in day 5 of withdrawal and dont quite know what to expect for the upcoming days. I have withdrawn before from Subutex tabs /Buprenex (injectable ampules) around 4-5 yrs ago, but from trying to think back, I dont think that my use was quite as consistent as this particular relapse has been, as I was only doing at least a 2-4mg tab per day or every other day back then (possibly more), with the last use being an IM administration of what I think was a 0.3ml ampule of Buprenex before committing to a 6 day in treatment detox... In THIS particular usage cycle, I began just buying a few off of a friend for a few 'kicks,' on April 7th of this yr... and I continued using, daily, until 5 days ago. I know what this drug brings the longer you use it, and being a maintenance drug, I also know the withdrawals are prolonged, but moderate and somewhat manageable... so I wanted to stop before I got in too deep.. But I have been using alprazolam (anywhere from 1-1/2mgs per day) daily since the last dose and some Cannabis... 5 days ago now, and it is helping, but not completely covering all the symptoms.. those being cold chills, anxiety (for which the alprazolam and Cannabis extremely help), but the most devastating symptom is the depression. I know it will continue for a little while, but any feedback someone may have as to how long to expect to feel so down and depressed would be extremely appreciated. Also, I have been sleeping quite well (usually 6-8 hrs per nt since last dose), and I know that may aid in the recov. process. Thanks alot..


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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 12:24 am 
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That is an exceptionally high dose to jump from. If you read some of the other threads, people struggle at less than a mg jump. Is there any chance you could taper before jumping?


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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 2:27 pm 
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well, it is now day 7 going on 8 clean, and it is pretty tolerable. But my question is does the length of time a person is on this medication result in a difference of withdrawal time. I only began taking them not even two months ago, and wasnt using any other opiate before that time. Wouldn't that be different if I were consistently taking that amt. say 8-12 mos..? That's my best logic for it anyway..


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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 3:00 pm 
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You are certainly correct in your thinking. If you were opiate free prior to starting Suboxone and then was only on Suboxone for a month, you are very likely not going to have as significant of a withdrawal as someone who has abused opiates for years and then was on Suboxone for some additional years. The fact that you have already made it to 8 days would also strongly indicate that you are likely over the largest section of any potential withdrawal. Most people start to feel symptoms at about the 3-day mark. They then continue to have the strongest withdrawal symptoms through about days 4 and 5 and then start to slowly feel better after about day 5.

All in all, it would look like you are past the largest of the withdrawal. The bigger question may be, what are your long-term plans? How do you plan to stay away from drugs in the future? You have not really told us the whole story but clearly it would seem that you have other drug involvement, including prior drug involvement. The fact that you are able to get away from Suboxone without too much trouble may actually reinforce to you that you are able to handle opiates - and let me tell you that nothing could be further from the truth. I am partly in the hell that I am in due to the fact that I was an occasional abuser for a dozen or more years and never developed much of a dependence or tolerance. That in turn led me to believe that I was able to handle it all. That all came to and end and brought my life crashing down. If only I had gotten into recovery back then it would have been so much easier. That is where you may be right now. I really hope that you will use this "get out of jail free" card that you seem to have been given to your advantage. If you don't work on a recovery program, you will soon find yourself in the exact same situation. If it's not with Suboxone it will be with another drug - perhaps the Xanax or pot, perhaps something else.

Please do something about your further recovery. Getting through the withdrawals are only the start!


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 Post subject: JH
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 4:00 pm 
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Hey, JH! Welcome!

I read your post and in particular the one from DONH, and I felt it important to reinforce what donh said.

When I first started using (dilaudid mostly) I would go on a six week run and then just quit with either no withdrawal or very mild, so I thought all these people whining about how terrible opiate withdrawals are were just sissies. I saw and heard of people giving up their rent and food money for opiates, and I just shook my head. "What a bunch of punks," I thought.

Then I went on a full year run (I was a drugstore cowboy) and tried the same cold turkey w/d's. Hoo, boy! A whole new ballgame! It was far tougher than the first time, but I did it in a hotel, and a week later was on the mend. That wasn't too bad....I can handle withdrawals.

THEN I went on a four year run with as much dope as I wanted, at any time I wanted. When my habit got to where I couldn't shoot enough drugs to get "well" in one shot without the respiratory depression killing me, I decided to cold turkey quit again. At night I would cut an eight-ball of tar in half, put it in two spoons, and leave it to dissolve overnight. I would also fill 8-syringes with 30mg per Ml morphine sulfate. In the morning I would IM the morphine across my stomach (like a diabetic) wait about fifteen minutes then draw up two syringes of the tar. Next was a hot shower to let the MS take effect and raise my veins. I would have to do one syringe full of tart, wait 20 minutes or so, then do the second, and I was "ready" for the day, feeling "good."

Until I tried cold turkey. The start of the second day, I ended up in the hospital with grand mal seizures They tried to put me in a detox, but there was no way I could deal with the withdrawals at the (what they thought were massive doses of opiates) minuscule amounts they were giving me. So I just walked myself out, headed for the "bad" part of town and got "well." It took me almost 18 months to cut myself down to a level where I could jump, and I did in 1989.

I stayed clean from ALL drugs until December 2001, when I went on a horrifying chemotherapy for HCV, and was placed on very high levels of methadone for almost 18 months.

I am now at 2mg of Subutex, and doing the liquid taper method, trying to drop faster than Dr. Jeff recommends (as I financially have no options) and I am hoping it won't be too bad when I run out, but whatever it is, it is.

Anyway, my point is from your post it sounds like you are a "recreational" user, and DONH is 110% correct. I have NEVER met a recreational opiate user who could stay "only" recreational. Just like the old, "I'll NEVER stick a needle in my arm," and most of us know where THAT ends up.

It sounds like you're doing very well on the getting clean, but please, please PLEASE get clean and stay that way. And again, welcome to the site and best wishes on your recovery!

Vinny


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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 4:24 pm 
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Hey guys, I certainly apprectiate all of your input and knowledge on the subject. And I completely understand the logic of a fiend... once you feel better after w/d's, you believe that you can handle another go.. which is never the right answer.. It's a false logic. Today is day 8 for me, and although I know the worst is over with, I've still noticed the GastroIntestinal-related issues just now starting (not as bad as my last run on Bupe 4 yrs ago, but noticeably there and took longer to take effect, probably because of the length of the stint), along with some anxiety and a bit of restlessness (which I can't believe is still there after 7 full days). I am using some Alprazolam for this, but am trying to be careful with that as well (even though it is a Control IV and has minor potential for abuse) as I don't want to be a slave to another pill..

-One thing I can tell that is going to be hard to deal with is the same thing everyone has trouble with... the PostAcuteWithdrawalSymptoms. It was because of my own demons that I began, and it is up to me to figure that situation out and take care of it so it does not lead me back.

Another point: The worst thing about what I have been going through for the past 7 days now (and I first noticed this symptom on late day 1 or 2) is the deep and fatigue-like depression. Although I have only been using for close to 2mos., and now im close to over physical w/ds, I feel like I have wasted so much time on moving forward in my life. Like years or something....it is quite odd. Does anyone have any ideas/clues as to why this occurs?? Just me, maybe??


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 Post subject: Fatigue and Depression
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:58 am 
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Hey JH:

Congratulations on the success so far. From everything I've read, as well as what is happening with me, having these fatigue and depression issues, is par for the course. so you're not experiencing something abnormal.

I've read of a number of different supplements etc that can really help with both, but the two that seem to have helped me the most are Vitamin D-3 and a Vitamin B-12 "complex" that has pretty much all the B vitamins in it. I've noticed the fatigue is lessened quite a bit though still there, and the depression is lifted significantly.

I've also noticed that if I MAKE myself get out and do some sort of physical exercise even if it's just walking a half a mile or something, that seems to REALLY help with the depression, even though it's exactly what I "feel" like I DON'T want to do.

I will add one other thing though...even though the B-Complex and the D-3 are just supplements, you still should consult with your doc before taking them, since they can have a "combo-of-this-and-that" effect, and it's always best to err on the side of caution IMHO.

Stay strong, J...you're doing great, and it takes a bit of time but all this depression and stuff WILL pass.

Vinny


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:38 am 
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Welcome to the forum! It is hard to say for anyone how long the fatigue and depression will last. I can say after a 2 year oxycontin addiction and 2 years on subs, jumping off at 12mg, I still had fatigue and depression at 3 months off. It got easier with time, but VERY slowly. So slow that the progress was pretty unmeasurable in my opinion. I was on wellbutrin and neurontin to help with depression and anxiety. The neurontin was helpful for me but the side effects not livable long term. The wellbutrin may or may not have helped at all. HOWEVER, I had depression problems prior to opiate addiction.

The bottom line is....who knows. But you have been given the ideas that I am aware of that help. I have seen many many people swear by exercise.

I do hope you will listen to the other recommendations for after care and a recovery plan. That is crucial. I also hope that you will continue to come here and post your experiences not only for others, but so you have a place of support as you go through this.

Cherie


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