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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 2:09 am 
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Alright, so...
This will be the 3rd time I've written a post on this forum- though I come on often and read/get advice from others =) Which is always a big help. However, at this particular time, I couldn't stress more, how much I am in dier need of some advice of my own. In a predicament right now and no idea what to do!
I've been taking anywhere from 8-32mg of Suboxone for 5 long years. The way it began was a little odd, now that I look back it. I checked myself into a 90 day treatment center (one of the best in MI- EMINEM went there haha...little fun fact for ya!) and despite my DOC being amphetamines (mostly Adderall, nothing more serious than that), they immediately started giving me Suboxone when I began detox. Of course, being young and niave, and to top it off, an addict... I took what the professionals gave me without question. And to be honest, (I think its the best way when going through this addiction and recovery battle) - I absolutely loved the feeling it gave me! The first time I took Suboxone was in rehab, day 2 of detox...after the withdrawals had gotten the worst of me... and because I had been feeling SO incredibly low, and was craving that feel good buzz, the euphoria Suboxone gave me- was like the most intense rush I'd felt in years (besides being pumped with a morphine drip in the ER). Anyways, they continued giving me that little orange pill through out my 5 days of detox, and when I was finished there, sent me over to "partial" for the treatment part of rehab. I don't know what possessed me to do... OK, that's a lie, I know what possessed me to do... but I remember asking my counselor during our first session if I could continue taking the Subs.
From that day on, this medication had been a part of my life. And for 5 years, I went back and forth between 32mg (which is what they prescribed me in rehab- crazy I know bc this high of a dose is no longer even legal for docs to write their patients!)....NO ONE should be on that high of a Suboxone dose, it's just plain and simply, not necessary! So like I said, I went from 32mg, down to 16mg when I got back home... and pretty much stayed consistently at that dose for the next 2 years. Thing was, I in every other way I did stay "sober". I moved back in with my mom and basically did nothing besides--went to meetings, I found a sponsor, I worked my steps, and I indulged myself in the whole recovery process. It was my life during those first 2 years out of rehab. Things were boring, dull, and monotimus. But for the first time in forever, at least things were not chaotic, dramatic, and desperate the way they were in active addiction.
3 years ago in 2011, my little sister and I made the decision to shake things up, and move down to the Keys. We didn't know a soul, but it was time for a change...and we had realized it was now or never (my sis and I had always dreamed of moving to FL together, but the timing was never right...with school, a boyfriend, whatever the case). So, we packed our bags and moved 2000 miles away from everything and everyone we ever knew.
I'll try not to go into anymore details here, because the main point of all this is... I think I have finally reached a point in my life where I want to see IF I can wake up and face each day without some kind of krutch. I have spent the last 5 yrs defending Suboxone, and what it did for addicts- I told everyone who dogged me, called me a junkie, and told me I was still getting high... that they were wrong and just didn't understand. Suboxone balanced me out, it kept the devil of addiction/cravings at bay... and believe it or not, I truly felt that it made me "normal". Something I never felt that I was all through growing up until now, at 28 yrs old. I told my doctor, whenever he suggested weining me down, that I just did not see or feel any negatives that taking the medicine did for me. Although the people around me did- my boyfriend of two yrs especially. He was against me taking it from the very first night I told him my secret... every time I brought it up, every time I took the Sub, I heard anything from "you just traded one drug for another"..."what kind of doctor would keep someone on this for years?" ...to even worse, when we were in huge blow out fights- "junkie" "druggie" etc. It hurt my feelings, but I stayed true to MY own beliefs, and reminded myself how far I had come since active addiction. My mom and sister started telling me how it was changing me, and my personality... when my mom came down on vacation the other month, and we were able to spend some real quality time together, she took me aside and very gently pointed out that something was different about me. And since she knows me better than anyone, and has my very best interest at heart, I listened with an open mind...
"Sar, you used to have this kind of fire about you. I don't see that same fiestyness in you, or passion for the things that you used to. And please don't take this wrong, but I've just been noticing... that you seem to be a little numb these days. Not depressed, but a little empty, and maybe just stuck." So, with all these things coming at me... plus zero energy, loosing my memory little by little, and experiencing constipation so bad I'd sometimes go 3 whole weeks without having a bowel movement... I began to question if maybe now WAS the time to start thinking about getting off this "life raft". 5 years is a very, very long time, and I felt secure enough within myself to SEE if I COULD do it... if life on lifes terms was something I could handle 100% sober.
Last month I began a taper program that I found on line, one I felt confidant in being ABLE to do. It seemed like a very long, slow, drawn out taper process which took away a lot of the fear, and also promised that hundreds/thousands had done it before and with little to no withdrawal symptoms when they were through. So, I started it... praying I would have the two D's it required: Disipline and Determination. Both of those qualities are rare in an addict, wouldn't you agree?
I did the process as it said, ... exactly as it said, until I got down to the 2mg mark. That was when things got hard, ya know? I tried going lower, cutting up the strip and putting little pieces in my mouth at different times of the day- but something in me freaked, and it was like this little voice that was craving more, kept at me...until I did... use more. So, I never got any lower than 2mg.
Here I am now, on day 3 of absolutely NO Suboxone. The reason behind this is... my doctor (the ONLY ONE in the Keys who prescribes Suboxone) had to leave the country suddenly and unexpectedly- just my luck huh? And I'm not able to get into his office for another week. At first I completely paniced, right... but then... after some time passed, and a few other personal things went down, a sort of calmness washed over me. And suddenly I thought, "maybe this was a sign." Like... maybe I just don't have it in me to discipline myself enough to wein down properly. Maybe this is it, and I should use this time to just DO IT- to "make the jump" and push through these awful, terrible, hellish nightmare withdrawals I've been hearing and reading about.
So, my question to you guys is this... what do you think? I am on day 3, and realize the worst hasn't even BEGUN. I get that, I do... but I also have the next 5 days off of work, by some miracle! And am staying with my boyfriend, who so far has been completely supportive and literally willing to do anything to help me through this. Should I push through it, and make the jump from 2mg (I know that is a lot of Suboxone)- or suffer through 5 more days until I can get in to see my doctor, tell him the situation, and get one last script for 10 or so...and continue the taper process "the right way"? It's the thought of having taken an opioid for 5 yrs (so that's what...around 1,800 consistent days of this)...& knowing full well how dependent my body/brain is on the drug...that part scares me the most, I think... bc I'm not too good when it comes to feeling ...well, not good! Guess I'm just a lost soul at the moment guys...I am confused, restless yet exhausted, hopeful yet without drive, ...im scared to death, and to be honest, at just day 3 am already beginning to FEEL like death (the WD's I've had so far aren't THAT BAD compared to what I've read and have been promised IS TO COME- mostly so far, after my last 2mg dose on Tuesday night (72 hrs ago) it is just these body aches and the excruciating restless legs (tonight in bed I literally laid there from midnight until sunrise tossing, turning, kicking, and thrashing!!), hot and cold sweats, & heavy dizzyness (I've been blacking out when I stand up too quickly- scary experience!)..topped with no ability to keep any food down yet except peanut butter and soup.
I am, I suppose, reaching out to those who've been through this, those who ARE currently going through it (my hats off to you!!!) Or anyone w/ some opinions and/or advice. They say in times of desperation to turn to the people who get it, who understand the way nobody else really can. And that'd be from my fellow addicts/ Subers who have been down this crazy, up n down, challenging battle before! Anything at all, really...anything... would be so very much appriecated. From the bottom of my heart... Thank you guys! God bless.


Last edited by SarahW504 on Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 4:48 am 
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Hi Sarah, apologies for not reading your entire post (i'm in the middle of another book at the moment, lol), but I get the gist of your question.

There's a couple recent threads by people who jumped at 2 mg (see trainer's thread for instance). Sounds like a couple weeks of pretty much manageable withdrawal.

Personally, I decided to taper down slowly, which (except for a week of wild mood swings & 1 or 2 sleepless nights), has been pretty much painless (I've been an opiate addict for about 15 years). I'm at .5 mg/day, and have just under 2 weeks to go. I'm really busy at work these days, and can't take time off now, plus I'm a total suck when it comes to withdrawal, so I'm going slooooooowly.

Hth & good luck.

-- JI

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 4:55 am 
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Hey Sarah! Wow, I can relate to much of your story (long time sub use-8 years for me, ug!, no other drug or alcohol ''issues' during use, losing my true "self" whilst on this numbing substance, plus we both are women from "up north" and now live "way down south"!)
Anyway, nuff about me, (my thread is called "need support" if you want to know more) I am really glad you posted and shared. That is a big step, right? There are many people here (as you know from reading) that have lots of experience, wisdom, and clean time totally off Suboxone who can and I'm sure will give you lots of support and good advice. I myself am near the end of a loooooooong (about 6 months now) taper from 12mgs to currently .375mgs. Yes, 2mgs sounds like quite a jump, but many have done it successfully, and many have jumped from even higher and lived to tell the tail and help others though it. There is some debate weather tapering to a very low dose is easier/ better than just "jumping and getting it over with" from a higher dose. Since you ALREADY have, was it 3? days OFF, man, I would just continue to power through! You have youth on your side, and I'm assuming no children? Since you only have "you" to take care of, and you have some support I would not want to give those 3 days up. When I got below 1mg is when I really started to feel the "fog" lift- my sense of humor came back (laughing a lot now!), love of music (this can really really help during withdrawals), libido (just another "pleasant" part of life I'd been numbing myself to), and best of all, my relationships with fellow human beings are beginning to flourish again. Like I said, I'm not totally "there" yet, but I'm certainly experiencing some of what Suboxone has been depriving me of;enough to know I will not turn back- I want "me" totally back, and sounds like you do to. Believe me, I know it is scary contemplating the transition from a "numbed" life to a "real" life, but don't let fear hold you back- sounds like the subs helped you stabilize through a rough patch, but it is time to move on! I would also recommend you see a doctor to tell them you are facing sub withdrawals and get some clonidine - not everyone thinks this is a good move, but it was recommended to me right off the bat on this forum from a few people, and has really helped me get this low and manage the wdl symptoms. Welcome, and keep posting!
RCA


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:43 am 
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Clonadine is a good idea, it may be handy to have some around.

It will help if you start getting sleepless nights. You'll be a little fuzzy the next day, but able to function. It helps if other withdrawl symptoms get uncomfortable.

Not sure whether Clonadine itself is addictive. Personally, I will only use it if absolutely needed, but glad I have some

-- JI

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:50 am 
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johnny_ikon wrote:

Not sure whether Clonadine itself is addictive.

-- JI

No, it is not, but can have a "rebound" effect on blood pressure (I believe), so should be tapered from if being used regularly.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:17 am 
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I jumped at 2 mg 15 days ago. By the time you finally get to see your doctor, you will be what, 8 days clean of subs? The thought of why bother after having so many days behind you crosses my mind. By day 10, the worst is over, and some minor lingering stuff is easing up. I wont lie, days 6 thru 9 maybe even into day 10 sucked for me but I pushed thru it, went to work and got shit done. Some people never even miss a day of work. I did call out twice but am sure if my will was a bit stronger I could of made it through. I can be a bit of a whimp sometimes!

If you feel ready and absolutely determined to get through it no matter how shittyyou feel, I say go for it. Only thing you have to lose is a sub habit, and thats a good thing =) just my 2 cents!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:31 pm 
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Hey guys! First off, can I just say, genuinely and from my heart, how wonderful it felt last night...logging on at 5:45 am (night 3 kicked my ASS- did not get, literally, 5 minutes of sleep),...and seeing REPLIES to something I wrote! Yes, were all technically strangers in this big ol world, but in times of desperation and loneliness- there is no better feeling on Earth, than knowing someone else out there, took time out of their day, to try and help you out with your struggle. Maybe it's my emotions going haywire (uh, I balled my eyes out watching "Fireproof" last night, that one about the love dare- anyone??)...however, reading your responses, they brought tears to my eyes...and not just one glistening tear on the cheek lol but actual boo boo tears falling!). Yes, it's embarrassing to admit. Guess I've just felt so utterly alone and lost and mixed up... you can read blogs and forums and sub detox articles until the cows come home but unless you're receiving direct contact to YOU and YOUR particular situation, it doesnt hit home the same way. Ya know?
So... It's currently 5 pm & sad as it sounds, I don't think I've gotten up off this sofa once first-hand well, besides to use the bathroom. Today is officially day 5. My boyfriend went to work a little bit ago, which is actually a relief. I truly do have trust issues I'm discovering- meaning it's very difficult for me to LET someone be there for me unconditionally (anyone besides...bet you can guess- my mom...who DOESN'T need their "mommy" in times like these?!). Perhaps it's weird for a woman going through severe detox to feel self conscious about receiving attention....I guess I just HATE n despise that feeling you get when it's obvious you're "putting someone out". Or you're being a drag/getting in there way- yata yata. I'd love it if I could've gone out last night w/ him to our buddiEs place to bbq n watch the world cup. But I just couldn't force myself- instead I pleaded w/ him to just go, go without me and do what it is you'd normally do if you didn't have the tied down ball n chain obligation of a detoxing drug addict sweating, shaking, puking, shitting and keeping you up all night thrashing their legs in bed!! :(
I know deep in my heart that the real, soul mate kind of love is out there...i always have, since I was a little girl. and while I put on a good, hard headed, independent, stubborn "im fine, I don't need anything" front...my heart really does long for that unconditional, there for each other through good AND BAD times, type of partnership. What woman doesn't?
Ok, so, I'm on day 5- with another three full free days without obligation or responsibility (thank you Lord, thank you). So I'm trying desperately to calm myself down, take deep breaths, and simply enjoy this opportunity given to me. Maybe enjoy isn't the right word, but you know what I mean. It's just extremely, extremely hard to let myself go completely and baby myself through these excruciating WDs- especially since my partner (who wanted me off this shit since the day I, verrrry reluctantly opened up and shared with him about my past in MI...about the darker side of me he never met (my active addiction was in 2005-2009 & we met July 2012).
It might seem like I am rambling on about irrelevant things,....but 1) I've got A TON OF TIME ON MY HANDS RIGHT NOW , and 2) believe all the details I'm sharing really do counteract and have significance to what I'm experiencing right now. Hope you don't mind all the reading!!
Ok so...as I explained somewhat briefly in my post yesterday... I thought I had this suboxone taper plan down. after weeks debating getting off of the "drug" for good (went back n forth every hour every day, mostly bc at first I'd so firmly believed in it and the miracles it provides for addict people. I always told off the haters, the ones who "just didn't get it", and even went so far as to tell my bf one night, mid fight over this specific issue, "suboxone doesn't get me hiiiiigh, in fact, it doesn't DO anything for me...besides that taking it keeps me balanced. it makes me feel NORMAL, and I'm not giving that up just bc you disagree." He'd tell me constantly (mind you, this is a person I spend most every waking moment with, besides when we're working) ...that I'm not sober and counting my clean time is a slap in the face to those who go to treatment, detox, and then back to face their lives- substance free. He once, in a very big blow out after he had been drinking, put his finger in my face and with this detached, hateful look, says...as cold as ice, "good thing you finally told me what you were on,...had you not, I would've ended this relationship a long time ago... within the first few months! I always, always KNEW there was something wrong with you." Broke my f*cking heart to hear that, especially when I consider the night and day difference between myself today (when on Subs) to 5 yrs back, in my using days. I tried explaining that he was clueless as to how far I'd actually come, how this medication kept me focused on one thing: getting my life back. And miraculously, I did! Slowly but surely I rebuilt my self esteem, my personality, work ethic, drive, and most importantly, I found a passion for life again, and the desire to be in and apart of it!! Got back into the world, socializing again, went back to school, discovered new hobbies, steered clear of bad people n bad places (including self destructive relationships- I was a fly maggot for felon, broke, living at home, insecure, going nowhere losers). And helll who knows for certain, if I would've been able to accomplish these things on my own, without Suboxone. But personally, knowing who I am and what a twisted, deceitful, addictive mind I was cursed with... I strongly believe it pushed me along. If I had to say, ...80% was the Suboxone, 20% my own willpower for a better way of living. and I'm sorry to the closed minded haters, but those things that we get done after active addiction- they likely wouldn't happen without something external, guiding us, protecting us, giving us unfortunate lost souls that little extra shove in the right direction. Just my OWN personal opinion based on my OWN experiences... So please don't attack me :( I have enough coming my way at the moment from my boyfriend. All I mean is, (& btw, I'm a psych student and am currently taking substance abuse counseling course for a certificate at a community college down here, AND grew up in an alcoholic home, then lost my father at just 16 from cirrhosis- turning not only my world upside down, but also my beliefs in nature vs nurture)...I am on the side of the fence of the whole "addiction is a disease"- realizing this is a world wide highly passionate debate, I still can't help it after the things I've seen and been through. Why is it, I ask, that Mary wakes up each and every day of her life with a clear, focused, positive, go getter attitude...w/ all the faith and confidence in the world that she can do anyyyything, get through ANYTHING- on her terms. And then you have Jen- someone who, for no particular reason, no bad childhood or traumatic, scarring experiences that haunt her...yet still goes through the day plagued with an empty, listless, longing type feeling in her gut? She isn't weak WILLED, or lazy, yet finds that outside substances bring out the best of her. These types of people explain all the time that...From the first high, they were instantly hooked, that it was as if a light went off inside them...a place that had been so dark, for so long. Why does this occur? It just doesn't seem fair ya know....Bc since around 14, I was "Jen". And have been batteling with the curse ever since... been a long, exhausting, thrilling, terrifying, empty, deprived, soul searching journey... that I do know!!

Ok, got way off subject there. Sorry about that. What I was saying before my addiction theory, is that... after 5 straight years taking Subs, and now detoxing miserably from it (price we pay??)...i think the last thing I should be worrying about right now is... judgement from the man I love, or these annoying, irritated looks I get if I ask him to get me something/do something, even as small as take my dog for a quick walk...or pick up the 10 valium my mom left for me months back when s he came to visit (dont get the wrong impression by that, she's the world's best mother- only reasoning behind leaving me these was knowing my suboxone "jump" wouldn't be tolerable without SOMETHING!!!) How can I not just relax and suffer though, when the ONE person here with me (well, "around the house" would explain what he's doing much more accurately), when by nature... he is a man that is just not ... what one would call or describe as "a sensitive, caring, supportive soul".
His opinion of me means a great deal...and like I said earlier, my boyfriend believes firmly that i (or anyone), taking this, is just a cop out to continue using...that its a different, legal form of heroine." We've been dating seriously for 2 yrs next month and he is the first guy I've ever moved in with, or fell in love with. So the man's presence in my life, and his opinion of me- being 7 yrs older, wiser, more worldly, and having kicked his own battles with drugs many many yrs ago- let's just say... he's been my everything since we met. Probably has something to do (a small part) w/ my living so far away from my home and those who love, support, and would be there for me cheering me on - through ANYTHING. And I do mean anything. So, from the start of our relationship he expressed his desire for me to stop using it. and when I, reluctantly but hopeful,...shared with him the taper chart I'd discovered on line (the information is so informative, and the withdrawal chart incredibly DO ABLE for those with a deep rooted fear of getting off and getting insanely sick!! This site is: withdrawal ease.com and apparently guarantees little to NO "painfully suffering" if done correctly). Anyway, I shared my plan and my goal in mind on how to finally do this...one part expected him to be thrilled, the other part knew better. Well, needless to say, the second part won- "if you're for real about this, just f*cking do it. Cold turkey. That's what I had to do in jail,...they sure as bell don't give you anything for comfort there!"
Needless to say, I accepted from that point on... I was on my own in this. Sad yes, but I reminded myself I would come out a stronger, independent, more self reliant woman when it was over!! Which, if I'm being completely honest with myself, I desperately lack this quality at the moment.
One last thing I'd like to add... again, apologizes for the run on post (crossing my fingers there's even one person who's read this far!!) Like I said I'd been here alone house sitting for him those 10 wonderful, peaceful days... well, wed my boyfriend bursts through three door and it was immediately obvious he'd been drinking (had several delays and two lay overs on the way home from California so... being the alcoholic he, sadly, very much is- and openly, without shame, admits- likely just guzzeld beer at the airports). His mood was toxic and he began storming around "his house" (it's always made clear that this place is no longer ours...id moved in w/ my sister 6 months prior but we stayed together). For the remainder of Wed evening, four long drawn out heart wrenching hours, I sat in total numb silence, while he verbally and emotionally attacked me. Apparently while he was back home, my boyfriend discovered his younger brother had gotten hooked on heroin... he called me every night while away and while never revealing too many details, I sensed finding this out about his brother whom he's extremely close to, was really having an impact on him. "I will explain what's been happening and all the messed up dysfunction I've dealt with soon as I get home," was the promise. What do I get for the love of my life's homecoming instead? Hours of being compared to his "cracked out loser brother" (his words), and hearing all the similarities his brother and I share. "Youre like the same damn person, and it took me going home to see that. My mom is going insane from his selfish drug habit, questioning if she should continue to try and help and be there for him....or just give up!! And I get where she's coming from 100%!! You are driving me crazy and I am, I'm stuck in this hell hole." Instead of getting defensive and sticking up for myself, the way any woman would with even an ounce of self worth, I chose to sit there without saying a single word. After an extended period of time in a relationship with an alcoholic, not to mention, having a father raise you who couldn't get through a day without a gallon of Bacardi- you learn some lessons at the very least. The one that comes to mind and helps me in THESE awful incidents would be to stay calm, stay introverted, and wait until the "storm passes". What's the sense in arguing back and getting your all riled up and crazy angry, when the following morning- it will only be YOUUUU who remembers...only you who is effected by the events, the hurtful words...only you.
Suffice it to say, he also threw in my face all of those "druggie qualities" his bro and I supposedly have in common. And remind you, I'd just taken my last dose the previous night, and had spent $200 of my money, that I reallllly do not have right now, to surprise him with paying for our first couples counseling session. We'd been tossing the idea around for months, so I thought now was better than ever-increasing particularly bc I needed to get across to him how MUCH support and encouragement and unconditional love I was craving in order to get through this upcoming battle of detox. Anyways, in his words, I lie, manipulate others to get what I want, I only think of/look out for myself, I am satisfied w/ a mediocre income (I wait tables in key west- the irony here however, is that- SO DOES HE!!) , and I'm dependable. Granted these are all addict behaviors, but in my defense, I've put forth tremendous effort in improving my flaws since he and I decided to give it another shot and get back together. Only, it was a sort of "vow" we'd made TO EACH OTHER- we were in agreement that it'd be a set back and yet another long drawn out exhausting, frustrating waste of time...to get back together without the will, and intent to improve ourselves. To get rid of our "demons". Which... in the back of my mind now, as I sit here writing all of these personal things regarding my life....im debating whether we both have it in us. Certainly the past (and now present, with my getting off this without his support) has proven we don't see eye to eye on that issue.
***with my futures very happiness at stake, I ask... do you guys think two people can still be right for one another...can still fulfill one another's needs... if they have SUCH EXTREME OPPOSITE VIEWS on a matter such as this??***
My philosophy, one that's instilled inside of me and am certain won't ever change: I believe loving someone means loving ALL of them. Bc you fall for the person- their heart, mind, and soul. Character defects and flaws are inevitable, there is no such thing as a perfect, uncomplicated, do exactly as what works for you type person out there. I believe in the best of people- I'm cursed and also blessed by being an incredibly sensitive, emotional, deep person...someone who feels compassion even for strangers... I am someone who doesn't necessarily put importance on material things, bc in the end... we all leave this world with exactly what we came into it with... nothing. I consider myself a free bird blowing in the wind, and have trouble making/keeping plans. I'm more of an in the moment gal vs an organized, prepare for what's to come type. And lastly, i feel sadness, happiness, empathy, heartache, loneliness, enthusiasm, affection, devotion, etc....point is tho that I probably feel these emotions much more profoundly than the average person.
The man I fell in love with, when moving down here however, literally, could be described as my polar opposite. He is a simple-ton "rice and beans" kinda fella, with an extreme drive (boarding obsession) to earn money and "get shit done". There's no grey with him- only black and white... problem? Solution. Simple as that. He isn't affectionate, open about feelings, and probably thee most stuck in his ways routine man to walk the Earth.
Present example: last night I asked if it'd be alright to spend the 6 days I have off here, where I can just push through these WDs somewhere I feel safe and (hopefully) taken care of. He had apologized profusely for his drunken outburst of rage the prior night, and ill bet due to the guilt he felt, agreed to my request. First day was so so... minor feelings of irritability and edginess- but we ordered take out, watched tv, both ate a valium and crashed. Day 3 was yesterday and I had the awful, humiliated feeling I was beginning to already "burden him". I don't need a damn butler, just a few check ins, maybe an offer to rub my legs (I complained of restless legs enough to where you'd THINK it was obvious)... however, when midnight came around, which is late for him, he stubbornly refused to come into the bedroom to sleep...claiming "I'd taken over." Mind you: all I had next to me on my night stand was a water, Gatorade, a book, Aleve, and a heating pad for my leg cramps! What an immature, self centered baby, I thought...then spent the ENTIER NIGHT LAST NIGHT in there, tossing and turning, thrashing n kicking- all the miserable while with a with a chip on my shoulder, questioning why this person's so cold? I personally couldn't stand to see a freakin possum suffer, let alone the woman you say you love and plan to marry.

We've struggled with determining if being soooo different is a positive meant to be learned from,...or an inevitable end to two people who truly love one another, but discover aren't a match as far as "forever" goes.
Thank you for letting me vent all this pent up hurt, confusion, and frustration. Am I asking too much maybe? Is this my own issue, my own problem to solve? My heart tells me otherwise, that love is patient, kind, encouraging, supportive,....that you do things f or the other simply for no other reason than you love them...not bc you get some reward out of it... "for better or for worse? In sickness and in health?".... are these childhood, fairytale wishes I'd be better off letting go of? *sigh*


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:08 pm 
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Hi Sarah, glad you are hanging tough with your de-tox. Sounds like you have a lot of emotional stuff coming up, and that is very normal as you start to "feel" again. I would try not to try and "figure it all out" right now. You have enough on your plate. You need to be a little bit "selfish", take the help being offered, and just focus on the here and now and getting yourself through another day sub-free. Keep reading and posting! "writing therapy" I believe helps us all! Get it out girl!
(sending you a "mommy hug")
rca


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:20 pm 
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Hey sarah. I know your very worried about "what's to come", and your probably scared sh*tless like everyone gets. You really dont have much to worry about as far as the physical withdrawal goes from 2mg. The most difficult part of detox, is learning how to "live life on life's terms" again. I'm 5 months post 2mg detox and things are good, but i'm learning how to feel again. I believe everyone goes through this process at some point afterdetox. Initially after i quit, after maybe a month, I felt like i was reborn or something. Then reality sets in, and you have to reach deep down to stay focused. Maybe its just me idk, but i really am happy after reading your story. You'll be surprised how good it can really feel to live sober. Cya

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:14 am 
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Hi Sarah. Sorry to hear you are having relationship troubles intermingled with your detox struggle. You mentioned him getting drunk. If so, reminds me of stories I've heard about drug addicts with partners who were alcoholics. Secretly, the alkie might often like the fact that their partner is a drug addict, as they can then think "I'm not as bad as s/he is", and maybe a part of him is freaking out now that you are making such a dramatic step, when he is used to being able to feel superior because he 'just' drinks, but doesn't use drugs (although he had a valium with you, that were given to you to help with WDs!?). By degrading you for being an addict, maybe its a way of making you feel hopeless about your condition so you'll continue using. He might not even be aware of such things about himself at the conscious level, the above mentioned processes might be operating closer to the subconscious level. Its not something I would throw in his face as it won't help if he is in denial. Maybe it could be broached at some point during relationship counseling, though, if necessary.

I could be wrong too about some or all of that, but it's some food for thought. And it doesn't sound hopeless, you kind of made up with each other, so maybe over time thing will smooth out. The fact he is open to relationship counseling sounds hopeful too.

Anyway, try to be selfish like RCA recommended, and for the time being, try to put more emphasis on what you are trying to accomplish than the relationship (although not suggesting you don't place importance on being with him, just know what your priorities are right now). I know, easier said than done. :-/ ...but doable and best for you and him, in the long run.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:11 pm 
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Ok fellow subers- this now marks *day 5* in my detox journey what's ironic and nearly laughable ...is when I think back to last week and what my frame of mind was. I arrogantly believed it May not be sooo bad, at least not the way others had described their WDs. Maybe I had that confidence based on prior experience detoxing. In 2008 (&again in spring 2009) I was treated at a very upscale, well known, highly recommended drug rehabilitation center...(thankfully I was 22 & covered under my moms amazing health care! What a blessing, one I never truly appreciated until...now) So my time spent there cleansing my system was all I had to go on! I've been one of the few lucky ones who've never had to really suffer thru a cold turkey immediate detox. Heart goes out to those brave souls who have endured this misery!!
I haven't slept in over 48 hours, and by this I mean literally. Not so much as dosing off and waking right back up... Just notta sleep time. Day 3/ night 3 was horrendous which kind of there me thru a loop. Having been on Suboxone for 5 yrs, and jumping at such a high dose, I assumed the half life of the drug wouldnt allow any noticeable withdrawal to occur for at least 4,5 days. Guess what im learning here through all this, is that despite my insane amount of time id clocked in the Weeks leading up to this, researching, watching you tube videos of others journey, reading blogs, forums, medical articles, seeing my doctor, attending NA, etc...I DON'T (& never did) HAVE THE.FAINTEST CLUE what's going to happen...to meeee personally. Thinking "I've done this shit before, I've fought thru my demons, I've faced some tough obstacles and came out a better woman BC of them"... Thinking these things kept me focused and determined to finally do this! To say farewell once and for all- to my verrry last krutch. the thing is tho... Its so easy, isn't it, to have that faith in yourself when YOURE FEELING GOOD PHYSICALLY? :/ not so much now, while smack in the middle of the detox...not to mention, without a single medication to help ease the creepy crawlys, restless legs, heart palpitations, hot cold flashes, irritability, body aches, or EXTREME FATIGUE (yet no where near close to sleeping). Tried reaching my doctor, who you'd think would be compassionate enough to call me in a few sleeping pills, xanax, clonidin (spelling?- the blood pressure med I keep hearing ppl swear by for their WDs,...freaking SOMETHING!! Anyyyything, right? Conveniently tho, my doc is "out of the country". Ahhhhhhhh!!! Sleep deprived + these withdrawals I hadn't prepared for= going out of my mind! Any suggestions guys? Over the counter stuff... personal experiences that helped get ya through? It's my 3rd night of absolutely no sleep, 4 am,...am just clinging desperately to the hope that this is going to be the worst of it. However, with it only being day 5/6 (bc it's so late I guess I'm technically on day 6 now...?)- I do fear that I'm just *beginning* to enter the severe "peek" of the journey. Any thoughts on that as well? I'd give an arm right now to be ABLE to just lay down in bed, with a clear mind, an average heart beat, relaxed muscles,...and just slowly...peacefully drift into a wonderful REM 12-14 sound sleep. Ohhhh Lord, cannot WAIT for this to be possible!! :/


Last edited by SarahW504 on Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:21 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:27 pm 
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Have you tried hot baths? I had alot of nights where I got 3 very broken hours of sleep and had to go to work the next day. Talk about brutal and being a zombie. Try (if you havent already), a very hot bath close to bed time and focus on that relaxing rush your muscles feel in the water. I found "zen" music on youtube, lit candles and went with it. It helped my sleep. Eventually your body just gives in from sheer exhaustion and sleep comes, broken at 1st but every night just a wee bit longer. Past 2 nights I have beengetting better and better sleep. Also, I skipped sleep meds, benzos, etc because I wanted my body to naturally find Iits way back to a normal cycle. A couple nights in the very beginning of my detox from subs, I tried allergy meds and it made things worse and I dragged the next day.

also, any health food store carries passion flower teaand I read Iits amazing at helping with sleep, anxiety and relaxing your mind and body. I never tried it, was afraid it would work a little to good and I would use it to much.

sorry about the typos. I use a mini tablet and it sucks with spacing and correcting stuff. It also puts an "l" in front of words sometimes. Frustrating. Haha


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:56 pm 
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Heya Sarah,

You could try another Dr for detox meds like clonodine, since yours is out of the country, Just explain your predicament, and they might prescribe somethings you need, at least around a week supply. Look up "urgent care" clinics to see if any are in your area, so you can get in right away, they are usually walk-in. Or an ER as last resort. Zero sleep for three days or more can make some people start to feel psychotic, its actually a form of torture (bright lights, loud noises) used by some unsavory authority types, to try to break people into confessing to crimes, etc.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:58 pm 
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I sit here reading what your going through and I feel for you. I'm currently on a taper myself. I'm at 4 mg down from 12 mg when I started back in July 2013. But, first let me tell my experience up until now. My opiate use started with tramadol in 2006 and moved to hydro/oxy(codones). I found Suboxone illegally back around January 2012 and used it sporadically until about May 2012. Average daily dose varied from 4-6 mg. It was getting harder to find and eventually did a quick 2 week taper from about 4 mg down to 1/16 of an 8mg Suboxone strip...If math is correct that's about .5 mg. I did this very quickly and not enough time for my brain to adjust, but I had to or else go back to scrambling for pills daily.

I remember very little physical WD's, but the PAWS was the worst. Insane anxiety, tachycardia(fast heart rate), insomnia, and extreme malaise. These are the most challenging symptoms for any opiate addict discontinuing opiates. Days 1-3 weren't so bad and then day 4 came the symptoms full force. It took almost 2 weeks to even get 2-4 hours sleep each night. I took natural neurotransmitter support amino acids as prescribed in the book "The Mood Cure" as well as multivitamins and omega 3/6 fish oils. I can't say how much it helped because it was the first time I ever attempted stopping opiates after it rewired my brain, as it does all opiate addicts.

I didn't take any assistance meds like Clonidine, benzo's, etc just all natural stuff to hopefully help my brain repair itself quicker. So, after about 30 days I was getting decent sleep and the anxiety was then manageable and had nearly subsided. At about day 45 I was feeling pretty damn good and remember distinctly feeling I had beat this. I was still taking supplements to help my brain heal as it's a slow process. The part of my recovery where I failed is ignoring that voice in the head that's telling you it's OK to reward yourself for all your hard work. Well, 60 days clean I made the mistake of letting my "addiction guard" down and answered a phone call from a former associate I bought pills from in the past. I thought I'd be strong enough to use once and then be done. I was absolutely WRONG and in less than the time it took me to become totally clean, I was back to daily use. When I quit the first time I had done so by myself because I was to ashamed to ask for help. This time around is different. We all at some point in our lives have to learn lessons the hard way and I can say with a sense of humor that I myself am a glutton for punishment...lol! I hope this time around i have the moral support I need to quit opiates for good. I sought help again by using Suboxone, but this time under doctor care and taper.

Now in your situation, it's ONLY my personal opinion and personal experience that it'd be foolish to start back on Suboxone after 10 days clean. At 10 days, hopefully you'll be 1/3 of the way through the worst PAWS symptoms. I can't guarantee that and don't want to offer you false hope, but it generally takes 30 days or so to make it over that hump. Well, I shouldn't say it takes everyone this long as we all are different. I guess I'm basing this time span off of general consensus. We all can make it through the PAWS. It's just pushing through the pain and taking it one day at a time. Stay in the "NOW" mentally and do all you can to address how you feel right now. That's probably the most beneficial advice I can give you. If you start looking at your past self and dwelling on shoulda, coulda, and woulda then that will possibly overwhelm you and exacerbate your "now" symptoms of anxiety and emotional erraticness. If you start thinking to much into the future about change then that could also overwhelm you. So, my feeble advice is to just concentrate on making it through EACH day the best way possible with as much comfort as possible and then one day you'll start to notice each day gets easier and easier. And, those nagging PAWS symptoms slowly subside. When that happens you'll gradually gain more confidence in yourself and can then start planning your opiate free future. We all are here to support one another because most doctor's and most family members and friends can't relate to us because they haven't been in our shoes. I wish you the best in getting through "today" as each day WILL get easier.


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