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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:26 pm 
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I'm on day 3 withdrawing after stopping suboxone. Some people blame others- a lot of addicts do. But I blame my doctor for a few things. I blame him for my lack of knowledge on the extent of what withdrawal would be like. My doctor told me last week the my dose is so low I will feel no withdrawal at all. I am here now and definitely feel it. Misinformation is very powerful. It's deceptive and manipulative. Why couldnt he just tell me what to expect? I also blame several doctors, psychiatrists, and addictogologists for generalizing addicts. We are each unique in our own ways. There are several addict characteristics that we all share, but each and everyone of us have different reasons for using, different amounts of dependancy, and different stories. I understand that it is a habit for addicts to be pathological liars, but sometimes even addicts tell the truth. I tried to stop suboxone almost 6 moths ago half a year into my sobriety. I had six months of clean urine/blood tests. I even grew a fond hatred for drugs and learned to live life without drugs. I attended meetings weekly and called my sponsor every few days. I know me better than he does. I know me better than anyone. So yes we did this to ourselves, but sometimes it isn't only our fault. My doctor made me continue suboxone because he thought it was my addictive personality lying to him when the entire time I was sincerely ready, clean, sober, etc.. Furthermore, I used opiates once every few days, and used cannabis a lot more. My doctor still convinced me and my mother that it was absolute for me to start this drug to not have cravings. And guess what- that was misleading me. I did need rehab. I did need help. But suboxone wasn't for me. Part of it is my fault but I feel mislead.
So I believe if a doctor has a real relationship with his patients than only then will the process of suboxone work best. Because for some heavy users and opiate abusers, suboxone really saves them from hell. And suboxone withdrawals are supposedly less intense than other opioids. So the drug can be a great asset when used correctly. But it is in every person's interest to make that extra buck. What would expect us to be different about that with a doctor? I understand their logic. But I also think it is wrong. A person eventually must suffer withdrawals. Just because withdrawal is easy for you, or him, or her doesn't mean it will be that way for all. We each react differently to everything. so it should be a doctors duty to notify patients of the exact symptoms and length of them, that using suboxone will entail. I could search myself but isnt that what I pay my doctor for? They should give us all the information we need. Hold nothing back, say nothing short of the truth. We deserve to know. It's us who will suffer not doctors.

Ps my father and brother are doctors. Luckily both are more in the helping aspect of it than monetary. They love what they do and have a strong repor with their patients. They have told me how during their residency they saw so many residents fellows doctors and hospitals chase financial gain. Almost like its a business. Medicine shouldn't be about this. It should be about the patient and the patient only.

So why can't we "complain" and put blame on another when it's rightly due.

No one is saying they force us to take it. No one is saying we are addicts because of THEM. We are only asking for those who are money hungry ( not all doctors at all) to start caring about our health and not their financial gain. It's nt asking for much. It's not anger either. Just discussion.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:37 pm 
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Quote:
My doctor made me continue suboxone because he thought it was my addictive personality lying to him when the entire time I was sincerely ready, clean, sober, etc..


How exactly did your doctor make you continue suboxone?

Quote:
We each react differently to everything. so it should be a doctors duty to notify patients of the exact symptoms and length of them, that using suboxone will entail.


If everyone reacts differently upon cessation of a drug how is it possible for the doctor to notify you exactly what it going to happen?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:02 am 
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I don't want you to think I am arguing with you so please take no offense ahead of time. You are taking my words out of context and using them in a manner to demean my post. First and foremost I am withdrawing in a way that is literally shattering my emotional state of mind so if this is in a way a method for me to blow some steam so excuse me, but I truly do believe in my words.

My family is very tight nit. My mother is someone I respect and love. She was a major part of my recovery. And even though I TRULY felt ready to get off suboxone my doctor had convinced my mother it wasn't time. Her and the doctor both literally convinced me of needing it still to not relapse, when looking back I truly should have stopped then. I even had 3 or 4 separate meetings with that doctor to explain why I felt ready. Each time he would explain things in a different way to get me to stay on it. Don't worry - no withdrawals." " the taper makes it feel like a cold for one to two days." "1mg is barely anything" instead he should have told me "if you're ready do it now. Because there are withdrawal symptoms like these...that people describe and like these...that my medical journals and research describes.

Everyone reacts differently indeed. This point was made to clarify that even if one person did not have a rough withdrawal that does not mean another may not. There are still a list of universal withdrawal symptoms that suboxone has (shivers, insomnia, mood,etc.). These symptoms should be told to each patient by each doctor. Your logic is like saying just because 2 people falling both get scars and one scar may be smaller that we shouldn't tell them the scar will bleed and burn? A doctor has a duty to tell patients of ALL possible symptoms including non-text book ones that prior patients have mentioned. My doctor told me no symptoms. None at all. He could of said heat flash, insomnia, RLS, or other symptoms almost everyone I have read about and myself has. Just because everyone reacts different, doesn't mean we don't present ALL POSSIBLE SYMPTOMS
No hard feelings. We are all entitled to out own opinions and nothing is wrong with that.

Feel like crap. Can't sleep.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:49 am 
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Hi there Godhelpme. I do have to agree with you in part that a doctor does have a duty to the patient to inform them. Of anything that they know. However, I also agree with you that some doctors are just in it for the money. You seem to have a good amount of knowledge and preference on how a doctor should "operate" when it comes to their patients.

The fact that you come from a faimily where two of your immediate family members are physicians....leaves me wondering why they didn't encourage you to be proactive with your own healthcare. My physician practically preaches this to her patients. That now doctor can possibly tell EVERY patient EVERY detail that they should have. This is where I feel that it is the responsiblilty of the patient to ask ask ask. Ask questions. And if they are not giving you answers, then start reading. You said that you read all of these stories about how horrible the withdrawal is off of suboxone. Did you wait until you were off of suboxone to start researching the drug?

I don't think that Alakazam was meaning to demean you. I see exactly where he/she is coming from. I thought the exact same things while reading your post. You seem to understand that everyone is different, yet expect your doctor to give you a blanket statement about withdrawals. I dont see any doctor that is as uneducated as yours, taking the time to read through a journal of medicine just to inform a patient about a drug. Especially if it is one that is a huge money maker. It has been said on here before that these sub docs just take an 8 hour course. Some do no more than that at all. It sounds like yours may be one of them....just like mine. At the very least, I have learned a lesson from all of this, and that is to be my own advocate, do my research, and talk to other people taking the medication that I am.

I hope that things start to get better for you soon. Good luck and let us know if we can help in any way!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:10 pm 
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A part of me I just upset I'm going through withdrawals. I agree I should of asked my doctors questions more often but unfortunately I didn't. My brother calls me a hypochondria because I use to always go on google on my phone and check symptoms and diagnose myself. He told me that he and other doctors greatly advise against taking the information too serious without consulting a doctor with the questions first. I still had read that suboxone has a withdrawal but I thought of it like a withdrawal coming off anti-depressants. Something where with tapering could be avoided and minimized. Well when u brought it up during those few visits he would convince me that I am reading too much and he is certain which a lose dodge of 1mg there are no side affects. He was literally beating into my head nothing will happen. Wouldn't you all believe your doctor? We expect the bet in them...
Overall though I take responsibility. I chose to continue eventually. But I was sincerely misinformed. My father is a cardiologist and he has no interest/ reaserch with suboxone. He knows as much as you and I do. As far as my brother..he knew a bit more. But he is still a resident do he's learning. He told me there are withdrawals but only for a few days and not severe as long as I taper. This was all stuff he read in his pharmacology book. But lately as he has seen me the last few days he did a bit more reaearxh on his own and finally found and agrees with me it takes at least 2 weeks and how severe they can be. Now whatever I'm not trying to be a butt head whining b****..is it too late? Haha. I'm just upset MY doctor (not all) wasnt my friend. I'm upset he didn't look for my best interest. I'm dissapointed he didn't share it all with me. But what can I do now? Nothing but inform others. I've learned to continue searching on my own and listen to my inner truth.

I am on day 4. On my way to school and don't know how I will be able to sit in the freezing classroom with goosebumps, heat flashes, and goosebumps. I appreciate your words Kelly. Thanks


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:15 pm 
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I think your post is spot on. From my observation, doctors along with us Suboxone users have learned more about the drug since it first came out. We of course know more about it because we take it. My first Sub doctor was and is a great helping man. His wife is his nurse and together they make a fantastic team. Not rich by a long shot. But they too were told incorrect things about Sub when they went for their training. They believed everything the manufacturers told them including how easy it will be to stop this drug. I was told to jump at 2mgs and should not feel much discomfort at all. ha, ha, ha, etc....

Another thing I told them was that Sub made me sleepy. They said it doesn't and that I was the only one complaining about it. Of course nowadays we know different. The doctors are learning right along as we are. That is as long as we keep telling them the symptoms and problems with this drug.

I too was not told anything about Suboxone prior to being induced. For one, I couldn't believe that it could stop cravings. No Way! It was only after that I found out it is a powerful opiate. Everything I learned I learned here at our forum. Part of me is mad at what I'll have to go through, but the other half is grateful to it for me not dying. Unless I was legally committed to rehab I doubt if I would have gotten off my crazy pain pill train. I do think Sub saved my life and I'll deal with the w/d's when the time comes.

You have a right to be mad. But don't blame the doctors completely. Like I said, we are all still just learning how this drug is affecting us. Would I still recommend it to others who are about to die? Yes. But as time goes by I hope the other addicts who will be given Suboxone will know more about it than we did. Would I do it over again? Yes.

I wish you well on your journey to stay completely clean. Sorry about all the w/d's you will have and the PAWS that will come later. Someday I too will be in your shoes so please keep posting your progress.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:58 pm 
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No offense taken, and none was intended! I just didn't understand your ideas and wanted you to elaborate and I thank you for doing so. I know how difficult withdrawal can be and what it can do to our minds and our emotions so I am deeply sorry if I caused you any distress. I completely understand the need to let off steam and this forum is an excellent place to do so.

Have you considered taking any other meds to help with your withdrawal? I am currently on a combination of gabapentin and hydroxizine for sleep at night and they allow me to get almost 10 hours! In my personal experience withdrawal is a lot easier to deal with if you are actually getting a full night of sleep. When a person is suffering from insomnia it seems all the other symptoms are magnified. What are the biggest symptoms you are dealing with right now? Anxiety? Depression? Insomnia? Physical sickness?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:18 pm 
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Thank you rule62. Don't worry it won't be as bad if you taper more than I did. I jumped off at 1mg so I guess that's part of the reason I'm withdrawing more.

Alakazam I thank you as well. I'm just a mess. I hate being a baby but this just isn't fun. I have constant stomach pains, bubbly guts where I feel like I have diarrhea, sweats, chills, goosebumps, irritability, and depression. I know it is around days 3-6 that are said to be the worse so being in day 4 I think I'm getting close to getting over the worst of it. It's crazy though cuz the last 4 days have gone by the slowest ever. Every minute is like an eternity. And at some points I feel worthless. But I'm trying to stay motivated. I think this forum has helped me mentally. The physical symptoms won't go away but having a good mindset helps a lot. I just can't wait for it to be over. Oh man will the smile be from chin to chin that day I wake up and I'm "normal" again. Oh I cannot wait.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:31 pm 
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Hey GodHelpMe,

When I got off of Suboxone, I felt EXACTLY that same way you did in your first post on this thread. Also, from what I've seen on this forum, 90% or more of the people who have quit Suboxone feel the same way you do when they first got off of it. It's perfectly normal to feel how you do.

I'm a life-long addict. I've used and abused every drug known to man since I was 16 years old and I finally got off drugs, including Suboxone, at 42 years old. It honestly took me 4 months of wd and then finding this forum before I finally had my A-Ha moment.....I actually had 4 months clean and I owed a lot of credit to Suboxone. In between the ages of 16 and 42, I had NEVER had 4 months clean, hell I never had 4 days clean. As of right now, I have 8.5 months squeaky clean. Again, Suboxone played a big role in me being where I am today.

I know your story is different and you may end up being pissed at Suboxone for a lot longer than I was, or it may end tomorrow. Either way, you're certainly entitled to the way you feel.

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