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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:00 am 
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Okay so to summarize...I had gotten in a little too deep with oxycontin and snorting liquid black tar heroin. I wasn't a heavy abuser and should have just gone the course of normal withdrawals but didn't totally understand the implications of suboxone. It benefitted me, but I haven't really had problems with cravings...but I was certainly physically addicted. I was so ready to be off opiates because I am proud and like to know that I am in control of my life and don't need a medicine.

Anyways, I had a year long sub journey after I realized it wasn't as simple as my doc said to just stop at 4mg after 5 months. So I slowly tapered down to .15mg/day using the liquified dosage method to calculate a very gradual stepdown (over several months from .5mg to .15mg...listening to my girlfriend bitch because she didn't understand I had a plan and was making progress...but she just didn't understand even though she loves me =)) and then I decided to jump off this past Wednesday, 6 days ago. I promised my girlfriend I wouldn't take any starting August 1st and figured I would time it so I would be hitting Days 3-5 on the weekend. Anyways, today is Day 6, going onto Day 7...a whole week with no opiates! Yay. Tons of immodium =) Ahh my girlfirned, she's been a wonderful support for me even if she doesn't totally get it...a beautiful loving girl will help take your mind off it..anyways though I made it to day 6 and feel like I am past the worst parts of the sub withdrawals. I am not perfect and last night was sleepless, but I suffer from insomnia typically anyways so it wasn't compeltely out of the blue. It sucked at work today and my throat hurts but it's just like a cold I suppose.

So...I have been trying to exercise, either with my girlfriend =) hehe or actually I like to take my dog for a walk and most of all play basketball! Anyways I am getting a little older (still in my twenties) but I hurt myself playing basketball and my knee is all swollen up and nasty. I have had knee problems before from playing soccer. I went to the doc after 2 days and he prescribed me vicodin 5mgs...he doesn't know about my sub situation as I didn't tell him. I kind of figured what would happen with the visit but I wanted to see if it seemed like major damage and I have good insurance.

So...I haven't filled this prescription, although icing and tylenol isn't doing the best job for the pain in my knee. I don't want to cause a problem here with my recovery, but is it a bad idea to take a 5mg of vicodin at night for sleep or will this prolong withdrawals? I was a little unclear on this subject and haven't found accurate info.

I have suffered through the withdrawals and I'm game for taking some consequences but this stupid knee sucks! It really effects my mobility and sleep at night. I'm just a little confused and haven't taken any action yet because I don't want to cause a problem because hey a week is a great thing from sub, but in the same way...this knee deal sucks.

Any advice?

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:47 am 
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So you're not on Sub anymore, and you have a legit injury and some 5mg vicodins...I don't see the problem with taking them, as prescribed, for the pain in your knee. That's what pain meds are for.

If you don't trust yourself, can you have your girlfriend hold them and dole them out to you at appropriate intervals? Then when your knee is better you can just get rid of whatevers left.

There's no reason why we have to suffer pain unecessasarily just because we were addicted to painkillers. You know yourself, you know what you went through, and you know if you think it's worth it. If you take the vicodin and you're like OMG MUST HAVE MORE OF THAT NOW...well, then you should probably not take any more and go to a meeting or something.

Congrats on your week off Subs. You've come this far & gotten your life together, now you have to make a choice about what will be best for you and your recovery. Just be honest with yourself.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:00 am 
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try motrin 800mg first. motrin is an nsaid (non-steroidal anti imflammatory) tylenol is not. you can use tylenol with the motrin and see if that helps first. the inflammation is probably the cause of most of your pain. motrin 800 gives me more relief from my swelling and joint pain than even prescription meds. dont take more tylenol than bottle says and no more than 800mgs of motrin. try that before filling your rx. this is my opinion based on what works for me for my rhematoid arthritis. good luck


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:32 pm 
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Hey guys, thanks or the replies! Im very excited to be a week off sub and able to wakeup for work and function mostly. I still feel withdrawal effects don't get me wrong but I can hang. It's a really good feeling and hopefully you can find energy in the progress you make for any lack or physical energy...

I wasn't truly an individual who couldn't master my cravings but I foolishly didn't realize my abuse was getting to a level where I may suffer withdrawals ad form a physical addiction. As soon as I realized I had a physical addiction I sought to make a change and got on sub--although looking back probably wasn't the best course of action! Anyways I'm free now and don't have any desire to abuse opiates both for myself and my girlfriend and just where my life is now, but was wondering if I take 1 or 2 of these before bed if this will worsen/reset/prolong withdrawals? I don't understand how that works as hydrocodone is an opiate as is sub but they are very different. It's been now a full week off fr a dosage of .15mg.

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:42 pm 
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I have no idea if they will prolong your withdrawals, but I doubt that they would reset them to the point that you have to go thru the whole process again...if you only take 1 or 2 of them. I would imagine that your tolerance is still a little high from having been on Sub, so they might not be all that effective.

The only experience I have is being on percoset for a kidney stone while I was on Suboxone. I just kept taking a very small dose of sub along with the percoset and then switched back to Sub. Not really the same situation, huh.

Have you tried everything else for your knee? My doctor has given me shots of toredol for my back, which is like ibuprofin's bigger, badder brother and it basically eradicated all pain. You could tell your doctor that you're worried about taking the vicodin and see if there's something else they can give you. You could even ask your sub doctor for advice.

Just speculating, I would think the biggest danger here would be triggering a craving for more opiates. And if you used the vicodin for a few days it might add some crankiness to your withdrawal.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:17 pm 
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My knee sprain is what caused me to become addicted to opiates, just FYI. I also have holes in my cartilage from years of obesity and my knees lock up and the bones rub together- it HURTS like a S.O.B. but I have to live with it.
Ask yourself this, Once those 5mg percs are gone, if you still have pain- then what? If you are still in pain, will you ask for more? I would try my best to avoid them!
You have accomplished completion of Suboxone treatment, why play with fire?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:51 pm 
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Yeah, you guys are right honestly...besides, it's starting to get a little better today =)

I don't think I'd have a problem, but at this point, I don't think they are necessary either. Naproxen seems to be working pretty well for me.

I had been doing my research about this issue fairly extensively, as I haven't been too active, and really could not find much information. I am trying to reason in my head the mechanics of opiate withdrawal in the brain, and how this would be effected if I had choosen to fill that script and take those pills. It doesn't make sense to me that it would "reset the withdrawals" as I mentioned earlier, but I would think they would be prolonged. I am not sure if this is an error in my logic. I also realize that the hardest part is to stay totally clean going forward. I don't have a problem with cravings typically but if I let myself say, "I don't have a problem with cravings, I can take an opiate this one night and not do it again..." that could lead to bad things. I wouldn't ever let it happen for what opiates did to me--I am so angry at the substance for being such a trap, but in the end I realized it was myself and my own actions and I just wasn't as aware as I should have been. I remember being so naive to think I had the flu and felt crappy for a week and then I looked back later and realized--duh! That was withdrawals dummy! I didn't fully understand until a month or two later because I weathered through that "flu" fine and then later had withdrawals again and it donned on me. At that point I knew I had to change and I just didn't have any sick days from work because it was a new job so I decided to take suboxone. Looking back, I truly think it may have been better to just go off hydrocodone but in the end things were okay since I handled the sub the way I did.

The key was the VERY SLOW taper and using the liquid method really helps at low dosages. This wasn't painless by any means though guys, but I would like to relate to some of you: please try to jump off sub at as low of a dosage as possible. I'd prefer to see someone at .25 or less. I feel there's a huge difference between .5mg and .15mg...a HUGE difference. Take your time with the taper at the lower end, because you have to honestly. Also, please don't go into a jump-off from sub with terrible expectations. It may actually be much better than you expect! I read so many horror stories and kept thinking...okay when is this going to start absolutely killing me?!? It never happened. I remembered when I tried to jump off at 1mg and it was pretty wicked, and this was so much different. Keep in mind...I was on 4-6mg for about 6 months, 2mg and less for 3 months, and .5mg-.15mg for 3 months, but on sub for a year total...

Today, half way through Day 7, I just feel tired from a lack of sleep, but physically I do have my energy. I have a headache some when I wake up but it almost feels like from lack of sleep. My throat has been dry which has just been annoying because I have to speak often at work. I have a ringing type of feeling in my ear which is annoying but that I just deal with, it's not major, but it's there.

Some of the best things for me:

-Having a loving and supportive girlfriend (even if they don't fully understand)
-Making love to said girlfriend (if not...make love to yourself.) I am not trying to be vulgar here but you will have a heightened sex drive likely and also...it triggers endorphins I believe
-Hot baths (if possible...with said girlfriend =) but seriously it helps...)
-Stay active (whether working out or just going out, try and keep your mind from focusing solely on withdrawals. When I'm with my girlfriend I was entirely different than all alone. Alone, I focus on withdrawals, do research on withdrawals, I'm lazier, just thinking about...withdrawals, but with her I focus on her and the moment and don't think so hard about the withdrawals and I notice them less and life is so much better. It doesn't have to be a girlfriend, just something to distract you. I have gone out to eat, gone to a concert, went to the park, dog walk, played basketball, all that stuff...)
-Imodium is a godsend. I can't say how much the "opiate base" of Imodium helps but I can tell you it will cure the runs and that's important, especially if you are trying to be active and/or social.
-At your discretion, a small dosage of benzodiazapene for the worst days (I hate to reccomend this because these substances are also addicting, but if used properly I feel that this can be a great help...it was for me. I took 1mg xanax spread out during days 3-5 and it really helped out and took the edge off for sleeping.)

Shoot you guys know the drill I'm sure but I'd like to let you know I have had success with this, but part of it is wanting it and not being around the same old people. If I didn't have my girlfriend and I was all alone and I had a buddy 15 minutes away...I may have had a strong urge to try to obtain something...but I think withdrawals are healthy in a way because it's a reminder!

You cannot get out of the opiate chain without going through them at some level...and it won't get much better than jumping off at a very low dose of sub. Why would I want to just prolong something or put myself through something worse?

I know my posts may sound confident but I realize it's never just a sure thing and it wasn't so easy for me--but I had such bad expectations that it was so much better than I thought. I'm seriously not even the strongest person either, you guys can do this. I was just angry, had a chip on my shoulder, and I didn't want to let myself or my girlfriend down. Besides, I know I'm better than some stupid pill (no offense--it isn't stupid it just helped me to become angry with this medicine).

Good luck to all and thanks


I hope to be getting more sleep soon but I know that takes time apparently. I found that taking 1mg of xanax helped greatly with that during day 3-5 but I don't want to be taking those because they can likewise be habit forming.


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