It is currently Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:34 pm



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 43 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Injecting suboxone
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 9:58 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 8:35 pm
Posts: 7
Hi I'm definitley new here. Not even sure if I'm allowed to post. I don't take buprenorphine but my 23 year old daughter does. She is a recovering heroin addict. She goes to the clinic now once a month and has been clean 4 or 5 months. Recently I found a LOT of syringes at her apartment along with a burned spoon. And she said that she is injecting the sub. IT works much better and psychologically makes her feel better she said. Her prescribed dosage is 8/2 of sub a day. I found it because she got really sick one night and said it was cotton poisoning. We are working to keep her healthy and trying to work with her but I cannot find any info on injecting Sub. Am I being played? Or is this something people do? I thought the Naloxone made the injecting impossible.
THanks and if this it the wrong place to post I apologize and would appreciate being redirected.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Injecting suboxone
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 12:42 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:48 pm
Posts: 1335
Hello Creek mom, welcome. You ve posted just fine and are more then welcome here at this forum. This is the place for real answers from thoses that have been there and are doing well. Everyone is in a different place though. Im sorry, but your girl should Not be shooting her medicine . Period. My fear is that she is also shooting other drugs as well.(maybe).
Naloxone was indeed put in Buprenorphine for a safety net, but only to a degree.
Some people use Suboxone as a bridge for useing there drug of choise. The fact that she is so new to recovery it doesn't surprise me when I read that newcomers are having a hard time giving up the needle. We read this here from time to time.
Im sorry but in my opinion and others as well am sure, No One should ever Shoot buprenorphine while in a recovery setting.Or any other time. It just is not part of treatment.
No matter her reasons this is not a good thing... Recovery is a loug road. I hope her life has changed for the better because of suboxone. Has it?

If you have more questions ask.. Better yet, go over to Dr Junigs Talkzone and read his blog post as well as his vidios. The vidios are on ytube as well..

Razor.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Injecting suboxone
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 1:46 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 8:35 pm
Posts: 7
Thanks for the reply. razor55. I am actually her father but that doesn't matter. I don't think shes using it for a bridge however this is the first i've heard of people doing that. I guess I thought that Sub had the naloxone in it to stop people from injecting it. What exactly is the effect and or purpose to have the Naloxone? (today she said that her sickness may have been from the Naloxone instead fo cotton poisoning but she hasn't gotten sick since)
I think she is doing well although she is now only required to see the doc monthly. So that is the only time that she is tested. When I found the needles she did say that we could test her anytime and she wouldn't mind. But once again I know that being inexperienced I can get played easily.
I have been reading some of Dr. Junigs postings and really appreciate his insight. I will continue.


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject: Re: Injecting suboxone
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 2:33 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:15 pm
Posts: 2468
Location: Tennessee
Hey creektrails.

So happy that ur invested and still trying to help ur daughter. Totally agree with razor that no good at all whatsoever will come to shooting buprenorphine. It's kinda like cheating. Yes she's going to pass her drug screen if bupe is all she's using, they won't know she's shooting it. But she's still shooting it to get some type of rush or buzz.... and that's not really recovery. If she's sticking with suboxone only that's a huge plus. I don't know how the naloxone isn't making her sick since it's made specifically for the purpose of to keep addicts from shooting up the medicine but I have definitely heard of ppl getting by with it not making them sick.

A few days ago at my doctors office, I was talking to some newer patients and they were talking about shooting suboxone. They said it didn't make them sick either. I know this particular patient who admitted to shooting it still uses on and off along with their suboxone. They've figured out how to get away with it somehow and not fail drug screens (they didn't explain that part). Almost always, if someone is not putting their medication under their tongue like they're supposed to, they're also up for using if the opportunity comes along. I'm not saying this is ur daughter, I'm only giving u some insight that I've experienced with others. These are the ppl that usually don't stay at my clinic very long and it's sad because I just want to shake them and tell them what an amazing opportunity they have, but that's just the way it goes sometimes. Hopefully they'll eventually get it and make it bk.

Back when I was in active addiction, I was a needle user for about two years. The reason it was so easy for me to stop the needle was because it was making me sick, and I honestly think it was cotton fever making me sick. If she periodically gets sick from that, I don't know why she's still using the needle..... but she's obviously addicted to it just as much as using, it does become a part of the whole ritual. That's why it worries me that she's still hanging onto that and not devoting 100% to her recovery.

Does she easily have access to needles? Is she having to get them through a family member or ppl she used to use with. I had no family or anyone else except my using friends that I could get needles from. If she can't find needles, maybe that could deter her from them and be forced to take her suboxone like she's supposed to. That's just a thought.

_________________
Jennifer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Injecting suboxone
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 3:37 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 8:35 pm
Posts: 7
jennjenn, I'll never give up on my daughter I just pray that she doesn't give up on herself. As for the needles. She gets them in a needle exchange program in our local town. Apparently they are VERY easy to obtain. She even has a card that claims that she cannot be prosecuted for having them in her posession. I have wondered about what you said about using and somehow still passing the drug test anyway. Is it true that it is not detected after four days? When her and her former friend were using I heard her say that.
The night she was sick was a thursday night and she was tested the following monday and passed.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Injecting suboxone
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 3:47 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:48 pm
Posts: 1335
Hey Creek, sorry for the mix up. So, Dad, I hightly suggest that you take her up on the testing. This is Opiate addiction sir.
There is nothing else like it. Accountability is key and honestly the whole needle thing red flags it for me . I am a recoving addict my myself with almost 7 years clean on suboxone with no relapse s. We have a sub group at clinic i chair and for the last 5 years have seen and hesrd it all. Suboxone, in recovery must be used as directed.

I can see that her family cares and that is huge. I understand you want to trust her but it is very early Cheek. What else does her dr and treatment require? How much therapy? Meetings or other peer support? Some of this is needed to get back on track and have a postive effect on patients.

The Naloxone story is quite twisted. My best advice to you is to search dr junigs blog in the Talkzone. Basically it really has little effect what so ever. At least when taken as directed (though the mouth). This way the Naloxone is swollowed and destroyed by the liver. It does not cross the blood brain .
However, if injected ,and in to the bloodstream, for some people it can cause PW. As with the use of narcan for someone oding.. this is the short answer Cheek. I do hope you check out the Blog and vidios as well sir..

Razor


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Injecting suboxone
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 10:11 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:47 am
Posts: 893
Location: Southeastern US (Alabama)
Creek:

The mental parts of addiction can be equal to the physical parts...
I've never done anything with needles, but I was to the point that I was OK with doing it when I got help. The fact that the one barrier I had for myself in active addiction was so easily broken..
I swore I wouldn't do that...I wouldn't go "that far"... But it's not really that much worse than anything else, only in my twisted view -- back then -- did I think that injecting was this totally different world of addiction, and I was somehow better because I didn't do that (yet)...

However, I was totally fine with stealing, pawning, selling, taking away from my family and not paying bills in order to fuel my addiction... But somehow I was a better addict than someone who used a needle versus someone who didn't...
Twisted thinking...
But that's how it goes. I was good at what I told people too...I could talk a rock into giving me water...
I managed to play some innocent girl into nearly $50,000 of credit debt to fund my addiction..granted, she knew towards the end just before I got clean ...but in the start, she had no clue. And I blew through money like it was candy.. A short time, from September until April...was the most expensive ...
And when I was done with her, I put her out.

I can't imagine what you've seen or dealt with...but I have some clues.. And you can't for one minute let your guard down. I'm not saying you should forever mistrust...but just be apprehensive. And as an addict, she will understand when she faces what she has done...and she'll know that she has to rebuild that trust all over.
It just takes time, and lots of it ...But there is no set time for that to happen.

The first thing, and probably the hardest, is to get those needles out of the picture. I've heard addicts say they are addicted to the needle itself..and some would even inject water just to have that feeling..
Not sure if this is her or not...but that does exist.

She has to break the chains...but she has to be the one who does it. Nobody will be able to make that step for her...and Suboxone can be a great tool to use for that...if used properly.

There is no medical advantage of injecting suboxone versus sublingual use. It doesn't "help more" if it's injected...

Keep reading and you'll find a wealth of information here-in..this site has a trove of info. And she should come join and read some intro stories from us addicts who've been there and are now years/months/weeks from our old selves.

_________________
Adam Wayne P.
DOB: July 1, 1985
October 8, 2013

RIP little brother. Gone, but not forgotten.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Injecting suboxone
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 12:38 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:15 pm
Posts: 2468
Location: Tennessee
Great post Jonathan!

Creektrails maybe think about randomly drug testing ur daughter.

My nephew is in active addiction. I told my brother to get him into suboxone treatment and I explained it to him. He and my nephew agreed that since I'd had such success with suboxone, it'd be good to try for him. My nephew is young, at the time of treatment he was around 20. I told my brother that since he was paying for his treatment, to hold the medication and give him his daily dose each day and physically watch him take it. I told him to put it under his tongue for him if he had to. He agreed to do that. The reason I told him this is because I knew my nephew hadn't hit his rock bottom. My brother unknowingly enables him so much and he's never had to face much consequences of his addiction. If he got in trouble, my brother would bail him out before it became a legal problem. If my nephew needed money, my brother would give it to him. If he stole something, my brother would pay the pawn tickets to get it out.

I knew my nephew would need to be shown this medication worked and that's why I told my brother to hold his medicine and dose it to him each day until a few months passed and my hopes was my nephew would see how much better this life is on suboxone, given the chance, would change his life. I begged him to listen to me but he never did anything I asked him to do. My nephew was selling his strips and using again. He lasted about 7 months of using and going to his suboxone clinic before he finally got kicked out. And he's still in active addiction to this day.

I see him manipulating his family, not working, he's now been to jail twice and I'm sure it'll get worse. It's so sad but we can't fix it for him and my brother is in denial. My nephew is so handsome and smart, but he's never held down a job and never had his own home or even been married. It's like he's still a 16 yr old..... he's 25 now.

Addicts will fool ya into thinking anything so always be cautious. If I were u I would randomly drug test her. Don't tell her until u hand her the cup and don't let her close the door either because I've heard they'll even try to mix water in with their urine. At least if u know, it's a starting point. Maybe watch her take her medicine. I just want to applaud u for not giving up on ur daughter. I know it hurts the family as much as the addict.

_________________
Jennifer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Injecting suboxone
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 12:47 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 8:35 pm
Posts: 7
razor55 wrote:
What else does her dr and treatment require? How much therapy? Meetings or other peer support? Some of this is needed to get back on track and have a postive effect on patients.


Razor

The doctors at her clinic require either group sessions or a therapist and that is what she is doing but would like to talk more. I have a friend whose daughters have been clean for many years and he said that they offered to talk with her and she has agreed. Would you recommend this? I don't know the women.


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject: Re: Injecting suboxone
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 1:03 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 8:35 pm
Posts: 7
Thanks for the help jonathanm1978 I have seen things a parent shouldn't, but for the ones we love we seem to be able to put it into perspective and move forward.

jennjenn I am sorry to hear that about your nephew, the rock bottom thing means a lot. I am going to order some test today. Thanks for the tips. We try to be as candid as possible and she seems to appreciate that.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Injecting suboxone
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 10:21 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:02 pm
Posts: 1021
Injecting Sub in many ways defeats a lot of the benefits of taking the medication. Sure it's often cheaper than shooting heroin, and there's significantly less chance she'll keel over in an overdose. But she's still giving herself vein damage, there's still potential for blood-borne diseases if she's injecting around others, cotton fever. Also I knew a guy who injected Suboxone strips for a number of years and he did significant damage to his kidneys. Mind you he took a lot of drugs in his lifetime, but still it's a foreboding sign for injectors of Suboxone.

A lot of the appeal of injecting Sub is psychological - the old needle fixation. Do your best to encourage her to take it the right way. Even encourage her to come here and we'll have a go.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Injecting suboxone
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 10:22 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:48 pm
Posts: 1335
At first I thought well, it couldn't hurt. But on the other hand it would depend if these women supported Medicated Assistanced Treatment. If they recovered the traditional way then she could get some negitive blow back. But uno, im just a guy typing on a forum here. Without knowing all parties involved it is hard to say. I am glad to see she is in a real program with drs and therapy help and such.
Jon 1978 is correct. Some folks have a really hard time giving up the needle. This is something i know nothing about firsthand though. In the end as he said it really doesn't matter. We all end up in the same place...or worse. The fact you and her have a good line of communication is a huge plus. Keep that going. Sounds to me she wants to do well but it is a loug process, keep the faith in her as well.

Razor


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Injecting suboxone
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 7:16 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:34 pm
Posts: 614
Just to say that reading through this thread, and countless others like it on this forum, is amazing. I continue to be so impressed by the willingness of all you generous people to share your hard won knowledge and experience. What you all do here is classic 12th stepping. I'm really honored to be a small part of it. Hanging out here has been a huge part of my own recovery. I only regret, I'm sure like everyone else, that it took me so long to get here.

I never used a needle but I most certainly would have had the opportunity presented itself. There's never
a day on this forum when I don't say to myself, "there but for the grace of (fill in higher power) go I."

Best wishes,
Godfrey


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject: Re: Injecting suboxone
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 10:47 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:15 pm
Posts: 2468
Location: Tennessee
And Godfrey, u my friend are a huge part of this forum daily! U make people's lives better too!!!!

_________________
Jennifer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Injecting suboxone
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 1:22 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:48 pm
Posts: 1335
I seconded that to the highest of degrees. A man with life experiences and recovery..Thanks for being here Godfrey.





Razor


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Injecting suboxone
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:52 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 8:35 pm
Posts: 7
A series of events in the last couple of weeks have led me to believe that my daughter is indeed injecting sub and not using again including being tested professionally this week and coming up clean. She says that she has injected sub on and off for two or more years before relapsing.
How might I encourage her to get away from the needle? One thing I thought would have helped was that she got arrested recently in part for paraphernalia when the needles were found on her. But she has a card from our health dept. saying that she can posses the needles legally so I think it won't hold up in court. She said that she hoped that they would test the needles because they would just show Sub and not H. I thought that that would scare her but I don't think it did. Any ideas would be appreciated? in the mean time I am going to keep encouraging her to take the medication as directed.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Injecting suboxone
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 8:30 pm 
Offline
Super-Duper Poster
Super-Duper Poster
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:01 pm
Posts: 354
Location: Mid-Atlantic
is she gong to therapy or meetings?

_________________
Get your shit together and live your life." Black Snake Moan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Injecting suboxone
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 9:24 pm 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 8:32 pm
Posts: 213
If your daughter is injecting subs, I think that points to a psychological component to her drug use. I've only known one person that used IV drugs for a sustained period of time. He once tried to describe to me his love of "the ritual". Up and beyond just the rush from the drugs, he actually received some kind of reward from the injecting itself.

I admit, this gets into territory I'm unfamiliar with, but I do think your daughter would benefit from seeing some kind of addiction specialist, not just a regular therapist. I completely understand using drugs for emotional reasons. Besides treating my chronic pain, opiate medications provided me relief from depression and crippling anxiety... for a while that is.

I'd like to applaud you for your loyalty and your intense desire to find answers for your loved one. I know it can seem like a full-time job looking after someone with an overwhelming opiate addiction. I am not a parent myself. I've always wanted to be one. The closest to parenting for me is the love I have for my best friends two teenagers... I have loved them like my own ever since they were born. I would give my life for them and their safety.

I would just like to remind you to take good care of yourself, too. You need that and you deserve that. No, I'm not about to just spout out some advice I have no place giving. But do remember that your life is precious also. Do what you can for your daughter and don't give up. But take some time out for yourself when you can. I really hope that you find the answers you're looking for.

_________________
Difficult roads often lead to beautiful destinations.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Injecting suboxone
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:07 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:35 am
Posts: 2834
Location: Southwest
She is injecting it simply because she has made little progress battling her addiction. Naloxone was put into Suboxone to prevent just that, but it proved useless and addicts shoot it up everyday.

The demon is winning inside her. Until she recognizes her behavior as simply satisfying the urge to inject it she will make no progress. What she does need is a reality check and have a professional addiction specialist call her on the carpet about it. Until she can stop the shooting up, I'm afraid she is stuck and not moving forward towards recovery. Yes, it is far better than the heroin she was injecting. But by still doing the ritual of shooting up she is satisfying the urge telling her to do so.

I too used to shoot up drugs and remember wanting to inject water when I had no drugs just to experience the ritual. That is some pretty sick thinking. Lucky for me, I got arrested and was able to put the needle behind me. Thank You LAPD for getting me out of that vicious cycle.

It all comes back to whether she is in a recovery program or not. If she is, I apologize for not reading it earlier. They are the main people who will get her to see the light and hopefully end this ritual.

Can you get her to join our forum? That would surely help as we have many clean addicts who used to shoot heroin and whatever else they could get their hands on. Please try to have her register as a member. This is a recovery group w/o actual physical meetings. If it were possible we would have some.

Get someone else to talk to her. Any clean addict will tell her the truth. Hearing it from Mom just doesn't count I'm afraid.

rule62

_________________
Don't take yourself so damn seriously


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Injecting suboxone
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 1:01 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:40 pm
Posts: 658
Creek. hey Pop, some really good posts. The needle is not in my area of knowledge so no help there. signed in tho to say this thread really got to me. and I feel for you both, likely more than u 2 in the family affected. Its a family disease. best tonight and every night, P

_________________
Did well on Suboxone. Stopped May 2011.
Stopping went well -- its the staying stopped -- where the real work begins.
Coming here 'keeps recovery green'.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 43 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group