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 Post subject: I inject my suboxone.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:02 pm 
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Hello all. Yes I inject my sub. I do this because I cannot afford the doc visits. I buy it on the street for about ten bucks for 8 mgs. Because 100% is absorbed, I only need a fraction of a sub to achieve the same result if taken sulingually. i realize this is not safe and I plan to iprove my life; in time I will be able to afford the visits. Id like to hear opinions.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:37 pm 
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does it have the same effect as letting it dissolve??? I always wondered becuase of all the warnings they have on the package. people buy them here, for that same price. Up until a week ago I was buying them from the pharmacy for 8.50 each, thats with about ten percent discount from a card. thankfully I have help with it now.......
I dont really blame u I guess if it DOES have the same affect as taking them "as directed"
It is expensive to get a doc, and do it the right way,,,,but its ssssooooo worth the cost. I go to a "providence" clinic, and they have a program based on your income, I only pay $20 for each apointment. the first few times I went I had NO money at all, and they still saw me. theyre all about helping the "at risk" comunity. I dont know if there are any of them around you,,,buy you may wana check it out. My doc isn't listed anywhere on line, but I bet if you looked up providence doctors and clinics, you could find one that may fit your needs. they have NEVER treated me badly. I really like them.
Anyways I dunno if I helped at all......hang in there. we all have been there.....


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:11 pm 
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Well to answer your question, no its doesnt act the same when injected. It comes on much faster. In terms of recovery this is probably bad because its instant gratification. Also, playing with the syringe isnt good either beacause that behavior is associated with getting high...and no there is no sliding pay clinic like the one you refered to in my area. I live way out in the sticks in ct. I find myself frequently thinking of taking another dose to get the gratification and many times I acted on it.
In addition, it seems I experience alot of the side effects such as flushing, night sweats, headache. I believe this is the result of injecting it.
But it still beats methadone,or prison. Had my fill of both. Ultimately Id like to get off the subs too but Im in no rush. Thnx for the reply


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:23 pm 
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The docs around here average about 180.00 for the initial visit. Then 60 for each thereafter twice a month. This doesnt include the meds. As soon as I can save for the visit Im totally there. Ill admit that Ive been dragging my feet about it. Ive been doing it this way for about 9 months now. Before that I was on methadone for four years. I tried to titrate and ended up in inpatient for three months and still had extreme paws. Thats when I tried sub. I feel its been the best move for mwe so far. the only time Ive been able to stay clean w/out meds was prison. :?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:26 pm 
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you mind telling me what warnings your talkin about?? One of my biggest concerns was the health risk of ivng sub


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:45 pm 
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I'm going to have to move this to the "Still Messing Around" forum. This is for the reason that you're obviously still messing around.

I also gotta call "bull" on the whole "I have no other option than to inject Suboxone at this point" line of thinking. It screams blatantly of a needle fixation / addiction. Where I'm from, we call it being "addicted to the steel".

Fact is, if you were really recovery minded, you could choose methadone over injecting Suboxone. Taking methadone as prescribed would be much better for your mind / body / soul / recovery than sticking a needle in your arm every day. And I believe it is much cheaper as well. It's dirt cheap in the US as well, no?

If you choose to keep injecting, a little bit of advice from someone who was in a circle of people who injected MS Contin / Oxycontin / methadone pills etc.. Always use micron filters People who cotton wool, inject cloudy-assed solutions of pill binders and dyes in their arm... it builds up in their lungs, until one shot ... the lungs just stop working, and stop taking in air, and you get a filthy cough... except the cough can't push out the thousands of pills worth of crud you've accumulated.

I really hope you either choose to find a way to take your Suboxone as prescribed, or choose some other method of recovery. Because no matter what bullshit way you rationalise it, injecting Suboxone isn't recovery ... it's addiction.

Tj


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:50 am 
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tearj3rker wrote:
I'm going to have to move this to the "Still Messing Around" forum. This is for the reason that you're obviously still messing around.

I also gotta call "bull" on the whole "I have no other option than to inject Suboxone at this point" line of thinking. It screams blatantly of a needle fixation / addiction. Where I'm from, we call it being "addicted to the steel".

Fact is, if you were really recovery minded, you could choose methadone over injecting Suboxone. Taking methadone as prescribed would be much better for your mind / body / soul / recovery than sticking a needle in your arm every day. And I believe it is much cheaper as well. It's dirt cheap in the US as well, no?

If you choose to keep injecting, a little bit of advice from someone who was in a circle of people who injected MS Contin / Oxycontin / methadone pills etc.. Always use micron filters People who cotton wool, inject cloudy-assed solutions of pill binders and dyes in their arm... it builds up in their lungs, until one shot ... the lungs just stop working, and stop taking in air, and you get a filthy cough... except the cough can't push out the thousands of pills worth of crud you've accumulated.

I really hope you either choose to find a way to take your Suboxone as prescribed, or choose some other method of recovery. Because no matter what bullshit way you rationalise it, injecting Suboxone isn't recovery ... it's addiction.

Tj




I would think it would be very dangerous to inject anything since it is not sterile and therefore could cause death. Also the hole in the end of a needle is called the bevel and it traps some of whatever was last used in it and is hard to clean out. This would mean if you reuse needles you could get blood poisoning from the junk that was left in the bevel. Blood poisoning is called septicemia and it will surely kill you in a slow painful way............Judy


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:03 am 
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slipper wrote:
I would think it would be very dangerous to inject anything since it is not sterile and therefore could cause death. Also the hole in the end of a needle is called the bevel and it traps some of whatever was last used in it and is hard to clean out. This would mean if you reuse needles you could get blood poisoning from the junk that was left in the bevel. Blood poisoning is called septicemia and it will surely kill you in a slow painful way............Judy


That's true Judy. But people who inject drugs will inject drugs, regardless of what we say / do. When people are like that, I think it's best to push harm minimisation - ie: reminding people to use clean needles at all times, micron filters, safe needle disposal, overdose prevention. Even though I disagree with what shilo is doing to himself, I'd rather he came through addiction with the least damage possible so he can better enjoy his life of recovery.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:47 am 
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Any sort of DIY suboxone "program" is a nowhere trip...and pointing it up is the worst. If you are serious about recovery, check into the options. My states Dept of Mental Health includes buprenorphine in its medication-assisted treatment program. Other ideas are public health departments, Medicaid, research studies, etc. I encounter many folks who swear they cannot afford treatment, but haven't really researched the options. If suboxone really cannot be accessed, other treatment options do exist.

These other options may not be exactly what you think you want, but are just as effective. For myself, learning to try things I am uncomfortable with, or flat-out reject, is a critical component of progress!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:08 am 
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moman wrote:
These other options may not be exactly what you think you want, but are just as effective. For myself, learning to try things I am uncomfortable with, or flat-out reject, is a critical component of progress!


Well said.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:13 pm 
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I agree with the last couple posts. Illegally buying sub and injecting it is no different than whatever you were using before. There are resources you could look into. If you truly can't afford the Dr visit (what you found is actually cheap) then you should have no problem getting on Medicaid. Also there is a patient assistance program for the uninsured that will pay for all your meds for a year. I would think if you got on the patient assistance program and only had to pay the Dr it would be cheaper than buying them for $10 a pill off the street.

I am not judging you and realize we are all at different points in our addiction and recovery. If you are truly ready to get into recovery you will find a way to get on sub legally and stop injecting it. I hope that time is soon because what you are doing is dangerous.


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 Post subject: suboxone is very strong
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:25 pm 
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I would just like to ask--have you TRIED taking it sublingually? It is true that it will not effect you as quickly, but....seems to me it is worth the wait. Now, unless I missed something, you didn't say much about your "drug of choice" or how high your tolerance is. But I am not sure it's true that you can take less suboxone to treat your addiction (that is, stay out of withdrawals and hopefully address cravings too) by injecting it rather than taking it sublingually. I don't want to encourage you or anyone else to continue obtaining sub illegally, but I do believe that there are a lot of people out there who do it--either by buying it on the street or by "sharing" the prescription of a friend or partner. Either way, it's technically diversion and illegal. Again, I don't want to encourage illegal behavior, but I have a feeling that a lot of these people are simply doing the best they can to take the sub properly to treat their addiction. Personally I think that is better than staying in full active addiction and certainly better than IV use. I too urge you to try to find options that would allow you to obtain your sub in the legal manner--get a doctor and try to be very honest with him about your situation. In the mean time, I really hope you will stop injecting the sub. I don't want to give you any medical advice as I'm not any kind of medical professional...but I will tell you that I find it does not take much sub (taken sublingually) to keep me out of withdrawal--and even at a low dose (2 mgs or even less) it usually lasts more than 24 hours. Addressing cravings is another issue...and also, at such a low dose the sub does not do a good job of blocking other opiates for me. Taken sublingually the sub should work within an hour. If I were in your situation I hope I would stop injecting it, wait at least a day, wait until I was feeling moderate withdrawals (by the COWS scale, which can easily be found online) and then try taking a small amount of sub, like 2 mgs. Then I'd wait at least an hour before taking any more. That way, I'd try to stablize on a low dose. But really, it would be much better to have a legal prescription and a doctor to help advise you and monitor your condition. I hope I don't sound judgmental about this--really, I'm not, I'm just concerned that injecting sub sounds potentially very dangerous and also does not seem like a good way for anyone to treat their addiction. There is a lot of good info on this site as well as a lot of supportive people, so I hope you will stick around and post about your progress. And remember, you don't have to be in remission from addiction or 100% clean to be part of this community. Many people here, myself included, are still struggling to get our addiction into remission. And sub has been a life-saver for many of us. I do understand how financial constraints are an issue of course, but, sometimes we just have to find a way to meet our health needs. As for the methadone route--if you haven't tried it yet, I agree that you should at least consider it. However, I know that methadone treatment is not necessarily free or even more affordable than sub treatment, at least in the long run. Whatever you do, I wish you luck, and like I said, I hope you will find some helpful support and information here, and that you will post again.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:38 am 
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Sorry if i come off a bit harsh but this sounds like the poorest excuse to justify your addiction to the pin,My sister gives me every excuse in the book on how it don't work if she don't pin it but finally she went without for a few days and when she was able to get a sub i was there and told her she could NOT use a needle anywhere around me so she took it the proper way(under the tung)and she realized it worked fine just that its not sudden she was doing good for about 3 months until another friend went their with a needle and it didn't take much for her to go back to using that way,so in my opinion (no pun there)the biggest fight is staying away from anyone that injects and not having any needles around,she is back to doing the water flush to make sure she got it all which tells me she addicted to the needle not the drug,I have lost 3 of my friends due to needles and bad mixtures (suboxone and drinking and too much drug at once)so forgive me for being so against pinning,i have done it with cocaine and oxy's and luckily i got out of doing that way sooner than later,In VT there are programs that go by a sliding scale and the only Dr.you see is the in group Dr. the most i have ever seen anyone pay for a visit was $65 anyways all i can suggest is to clean the house of all needles and have no one of company that uses them around you,do them the right way and you will find that you will be fine

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:05 am 
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Even in my addiction this would make no sense to me. If you're going to have a dig, then use something decent.

Injecting pills can be worse than injecting street drugs. Unless proper micron-filtering is used, all those binders wreak even more havoc in one's body, clogging up capillaries, sending people blind etc. Not to mention all the flavouring, and the colouring...

The thought is just yuck.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:40 pm 
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shilo wrote:
Hello all. Yes I inject my sub. I do this because I cannot afford the doc visits. I buy it on the street for about ten bucks for 8 mgs. Because 100% is absorbed, I only need a fraction of a sub to achieve the same result if taken sulingually. i realize this is not safe and I plan to iprove my life; in time I will be able to afford the visits. Id like to hear opinions.


I understand why Shilo is receiving negative feedback for injecting Suboxone and I'll even throw in my two cents -

- Suboxone is a stigmatizing drug for a stigmatizing condition; injecting the drug contributes to the media perceptions that buprenorphine is yet another "miracle cure" (like opium, followed by morphine, followed by heroin, followed by methadone) for opioid addiction that eventually diverts to street use, contributing to another epidemic of stung-out addicts staggering around, tossing injected needles like confetti and stealing television sets (which, knowing the way certain media outlet like to portray addicts, by not be such a bad idea...joking...sort of) So, Shilo, please stop. If only to avoid contributing to misconceptions regarding vast amounts of buprenorphine being diverted for street abuse.

Anyway...

Shilo's experience, from a buprenorphine-advocacy position, is compelling for two reasons:

a.) It points to the fact that street-diverted Suboxone is more likely to be purchased by a person who is currently addicted to opioids for the purpose of DIY treatment/staving off withdrawals, than for the purpose of getting stoned.

b.) The tablets Shilo is injecting (correct me if I'm wrong) are not pure buprenorphine, but SUBOXONE-BRAND buprenorphine containing NALOXONE. According to literature produced by the drug manufacturer, the purpose for naloxone is to bring about unpleasant withdrawal symptoms WHEN INJECTED.

Clearly, Shilo's account of injecting Suboxone proves naloxone not particularly effective in deterring IV misuse.

(The following portion of this post gets lengthy, as it's my own "how-to" guide for low-income people looking for free/low-cost mental health/substance abuse treatment).

But I ALSO understand where Shilo is coming from...

(The following portion of this post gets lengthy, a "how-to" guide for low-income people looking for free/low-cost substance abuse treatment).

Treatment can be INCREDIBLY expensive, if not COMPLETELY UNAFFORDABLE, for the very poor. And, while I know applying for Medicaid has been cited, in some states, one could chew off one's arm and still be denied Medicaid. Or, discover Medicaid doesn't cover Suboxone.

Suboxone is STILL available for extremely low-income patients. It requires jumping through hoops, phone calls, and paperwork, but in the end, it's worth it.

Shilo, if you do not have insurance and have little or no income, the manufacturers of Suboxone may accept you into their patient-assistance program, allowing you one year of cost-free treatment with Suboxone film.

However, you still need a doctor to write the prescriptions and, in my opinion, this is the hard part. Keep in mind, different states have different policies for treating the health of low-income patients. My state (Illinois) is one of the worst, so your experience may be easier.

Though Suboxone.com offers a physician-finder, in my experience, the doctors it lists charge extremely high prices and often refuse insurance. A second option is finding a community mental health center that also treat chemical dependence, sometimes on a sliding scale. A third option is to contact a state-funded hospital within your "catchment area" (basically, within the zip code on your ID), request an appointment or take advantage of walk-in service, and explain your situation.

Another option - I *believe* all states have a public hospital, usually just called "county" in vernacular, that accepts all patients regardless of income. You'll sit there for 12 hours straight but, eventually, you'll see a doctor.

A final, slightly quicker option that I'm sure will bring me heavy criticism - walk into the emergency room of a local hospital that receives state funding (different than a public hospital; also different than a county hospital) while in withdrawal, go into detox, go into inpatient and or outpatient treatment, taking advantage of their sliding-scale financial assistance program which, depending on income, may slide all the way to zero. Get hooked up with a doctor. Make sure your doctor has the appropriate DEA license to prescribe Suboxone. Request patient assistance from the drug manufacturer, Reckitt Benkiser (PM for their phone number).

It's not easy and it takes a LOT of hoop-jumping, but it's possible.

If this is confusing (I know it's confusing), there are numerous organizations that can help - SAMHSA.gov, NAMI.org, NMHA.org, among others.

...to those ready to bite my head off, I again apologize for the lengthy post. But the guy (Shilo) obviously needs help, and help is hard to find when your poor. I'm sorry if I've annoyed any forum readers, but I'd like to reach out in any way possible.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:00 pm 
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Hi nomore, I just wanted to let you know that this site is all about helping fellow addicts. There is never a need to apologize for a lengthy post, especially when that post is to help someone. I doubt there are members here that would be bothered by it and if there is they don't have to read it. I would like to thank you for taking the time to give Shilo all of that information and it may help others who want help but can not afford it. It was a good thing you did and help is always welcome and appreciated. I hope you stick around, we can always use caring individuals such as yourself.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:34 pm 
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Thank you, Breezy, for your kind remarks!

I've been stuck in a weird constant-apologizing mode whenever posting on recovery forums. I think it's due to huge shifts in opinion inherently attached to the subject matter (drugs). And because the experience of opioid addiction/recovery is both a personal and political matter, it's sometimes difficult to step away from one's individual experience and see topics objectively.

Thankfully, this site has overall been a lot more accepting than others I've visited! Check out some of the reader comments on "The Fix" (an online news-source covering addiction issues) for some truly brutal feedback!

But, again, thank you for your reassurance!


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 Post subject: BANGING SUBS!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:31 pm 
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ARE YOU CRAZY :twisted: ?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:42 pm 
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This site was helpful but not as helpful as a real fellowship.I started using suoxone when I decided th wd's from 4 yrs of methadone were intolerable. Thank you for helping push me in the right direction. I had to take a hard look at myself and remember why I wanted to get off methadone in the first place. I decided that I wanted a real clean date. I dont want to be dependent on ANY drugs.. The wd's from suboxone were minimal. So minimal in fact that I realized that I didnt need it anymore. I feel so much better now. I cant even describe the wonderful feeling I have when I wake up in the morning and know that I no longer need to put chemicals in my body. Importantly, I learned to overlook superiority complexes and the dangers of overintelectualizing. A drug is a drug. A special thanks to all that sent private msgs.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:57 pm 
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WOW". i wished i could feel so well" so fast?


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