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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:52 pm 
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Hello everyone
Here I go. I've been putting this day off for months. I'm gonna try to chronicle my induction to Subutex from opiates for you and me. I've got to do it now as time has run out for me. I'm finally at the end of my rope. I've now lost everything in my life to these drugs. Well, not quite everything...I still have a roof over my head and my dogs and some cash.

I've gone from OxyContin (100mg/day) -> Methadone (90mg/day) -> Oxycodone (800mg/day) -> Heroin (500mg/day). Ive taken my last dose of heroin and I'm going to sleep now. I'll continue this in the morning as my WDs start.
Goodnight,
Hogan


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:10 am 
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I wish you the best of luck.I am having a hard time making the transition from H to the subs.I am really getting tired of it.I got some great advice from the members on this site,good people on here.Now, it's my job to put what people are telling me to work.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:41 am 
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Keep talking to us, Hogan. Having some support makes things a little bit easier as you transition to sub. Make sure that you're at least in moderate withdrawals before you take sub and start slow. If your body reacts to sub with violent symptoms then you have to wait a little longer to induce. Are you doing this under the care of a doctor?

I hope that this goes well for you, Hogan. A lot of members of this forum feel that sub has saved their lives. Good luck!

Amy

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:57 am 
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Well I woke up this morning at 8am and it didnt take long before I was sniffing some heroin. The induction was a failure for today but I can't give up. I didn't prepare well enough. I wish I could know the total time I would need to suffer before I could switch over to bupe safely. I understand that I need to effectively get my tolerance down to about 80mg/day oxycodone to be comfortable on bupe but that seems like a long trip.

I'm gonna try again tonight. One difference is that I will be out of heroin after today so I cant go back there tomorrow if I fail (although I have some oxy).

Oiler1995: I read your story and that is what prompted me to begin writing mine. Please continue your story maybe we can learn from each other...!

Amy:Thanks for the response...I understand that I need to go slow and I understand and am afraid of PWD. I am not under the care of a doctor for this at this time but I am in possession of about 16, 8mg subutex pills (not that ones with naltrexone) and 5, 8mg suboxone pills (orange ones with the naltrexone).

One question I have is what can I do during the time that I am getting sick to pass the time? When I wake up tomorrow I will have to feed the dogs but then I have an empty schedule. It's supposed to be a rainy day. How should I spend my time while I'm getting sicker? Sadly I have no 3-d support for this as this is a "big secret".
Thanks everybody and I will post again as events warrant...
Hogan


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:13 pm 
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I've been reading Homer's story about transitioning to bupe by phasing from H to bupe over time with much interest. I have about 300mg of high quality H left and a lot of Subutex in pill form . I'm trying to think about a procedure for using small amounts of each to phase out the H and phase in the Bupe. I'll try and document what I do carefully in the name of science and report back to everyone.

I can accurately measure pretty small amounts of bupe with a mirror and a razor blade. I'm going to use the same ROA with the bupe that I use with the H, i.e. intra-nasally.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:55 pm 
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It is hard to make that first step...to make the decision to not take your DOC that you familiar with and know what the results will be like, and instead take a drug that your unsure of and dont know if you will make your wds even worse. Ive been there..that first time is hard, especially when you have your DOC around and at your disposal.

Like amy said start small..maybe 2mg or so when your in at least moderate wd. If it makes you feel better then go ahead and take more. If you feel worse then its not time yet and you need to wait a little longer, but by starting with a small dose it shouldnt be enough to push you deep into percipitated wd.

When i inducted my DOC was oxymorphone aka opana..intranasal where the bio-availability was about 4x swallowed. I remember one time i was in wd from opana and the only thing i could find was h..i tried 2 baggies split up over about an hours time (i was pretty unfamiliar with h only tried it one other time previously) and that barley touched my opana wd...it eased the stomach issues and some of the cold sweats, but that was it...that really sucked cuz i thought at the time "oh yeah h should def get me outta wd" But when i finally decided enough was enough and tried subs i was in wd pretty bad at 12 hours, but i waited until 16 hours anyway, 2mg suprisingly gave me quite alot of relief not fully but was better that what i was feeling which was complete hell. I took another 2mg and i felt pretty close to normal. I know if i were to see a doctor they would probably put me on a high dose, but for now 4mg does fine.

I love the stability i have from the sub...i actually wake up and my first thought is not "gotta do drugs..NEED DRUGS" most of the time i dont have cravings, but occasionally i wish i could still get high. I guess i have some work to do in order to achieve long term sobriety. Im confident ill get there though. It sure is nice to not spend my whole paycheck on drugs everyweek..i can actually pay my bills on time. I know all this wouldnt be possible without sub

I hope when you do induct that it goes smoothly, and you can get out of the crazy cycle of active addiction :)


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:05 pm 
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It's 9pm Sunday. I'm just starting to feel sick. I've taken 0.1mg clonodine and 0.5mg xanax. I think part of my fear is really just not getting high anymore. My conscious mind knows that I need to stop but my sub-conscious works very hard to subvert me. My last hit was about 6hrs ago. I'm not taking any Bupe yet.

B.D. - Thank you for the analogy with dilaudid I think you are right on with that. I think there is also some cross-tolerance issues even when you go from one full agonist to another that complicate things. Maybe you can still get WDs. Here goes nothing....


Last edited by OpiatesThrowMeaway on Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:07 pm 
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Keep with it! I know you can do it!!!

Amy

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:53 pm 
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I felt the same way otma...its like you KNOW what you need to do, but the addict inside of us is like "just one more time" and then that turns into "ill just start freash tomorrow" You can do this, i know you can. Just keep reminding yourself WHY your doing it.

Ys i know what you mean about the cross tolorance thing. I think as addicts we will do anything available to us, but it just dosent seem to work like the drug of choice we are used to. I think h effects mostly the mu opiate receptors, where as oxy based drugs like opana effect both the mu and delta, which could be why the h wasnt quit doing it for me. I always thought an opiate is an opiate is an opiate, and the only difference was in strength...but there are some differences between all of them.

So are you planning on inducting tommorow once you get some more wd time under your belt? I hope so, it sounds like you are ready to be done...you just gotta get the addict part of your brain to shut-up and let your concsious mind take control. Im rootin for ya!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:38 am 
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It was much harder than I'd hoped.

I lasted until 5:30am (Monday morning) and the WDs were horrible. I was too scared to take bupe because if things got worse I don't think I could handle it. So I finished off the remaining H that I had and felt better.

I'm now working on a taper. I'm still highly motivated to get off this stuff but I'm not going to be a hero. I have some time.

One thing I think I can say is there are no shortcuts to this. i thought by quickly switching from methadone to Oxycodone to H that I would "trick" my body into not getting the full addiction to anything. Nope. It dosent work that way. I also no longer believe there is any merit to Homer's recipe of gradually inducing bupe while still taking H to achieve a pain free induction.

suffering = progress. That is the only equation that works. I can minimize it somewhat with comfort drugs. Even though I'm not working I still have responsibilities so I'm going to taper. The past two days have been unsteady. I've suffered as much as I can but I've still been taking about 400mg oxycodone/day. That's hard to believe, huh? It just shows how far down you can go with this stuff.

Today is Thursday. I'm using 80mg OxyContin pills taken whole (not chewed) at 8hr intervals. That will be 240mg/day

I'll update as I progress. I hate it when people just leave these stories hanging.

Hogan


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:10 am 
If your using black tar heroin your gunna need 36-48 hours of withdrawal before taking your suboxone.....if it was oxy or east coast dope than 24 hours is fine.....load up on benzos and all the supplements from the Thomas recipe and get totally hydrated and well nourished the day before you do this. Once you are totaly hydrated pissing like a race hoarse all day and well nourished than your ready.......start off taking your supplements keep drinking water and eating, if you like marijuana than you can spend the day just blazing away save the benzos untill your realy hurting and are about to give up.....the longer you wait the better.....no matter what your coming off I would wait 2 days cuz seriously the longer you wait the better you will feel when you take the subs....if you don't wait long enough than you won't feel good for the first month on suboxone....I would ditch the weed and benzos once you get on the subs.......,,,I would recommend that you go to rehab and get clean and relapse and do it over a million times before I would recommend suboxone because with suboxone you are trading in your health and your chance at sobriety for harm reduction..,..


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:44 am 
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Darthvader wrote:
I would recommend that you go to rehab and get clean and relapse and do it over a million times before I would recommend suboxone because with suboxone you are trading in your health and your chance at sobriety for harm reduction..,..


Oh yeah, you should definitely go to rehab and relapse as many times as possible. Each time taking the risk of overdosing due to a period of abstinence. That sounds like LOTS of fun! Oh, and don't forget all the fun your family will have watching you go through all these relapses. Each time you go, getting their hopes up that they will have their loved one back healthy and happy. Only to have their hopes and any faith they have left in you crushed. Sounds great!

OTMA, definitely do your research. Know what you are getting into, know that you might have to stay on suboxone for life to stay sober. Or, you might taper and stay in abstinence for life after awhile. It's not easy to taper and get off, but is sure as hell beats being dead. Suggesting that going to suboxone is worse for your health than heroine is just pure lunacy!

Whatever you decide, it's your choice. Don't let someone scare you away from suboxone because of their own bad experience. Everyone reacts differently to treatment, and there are MANY people who COMPLETELY disagree with the above poster. I can tell you for sure it didn't ruin my life. And, I'm almost off now. Down to .37mg per day and doing fine. You can do it too if you want. But either way you will be sober!

You need to jump off the crazy train while you still have something to live for! I'm pulling for you dude!

Q


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:12 pm 
Content deleted. Poster was banned as a trouble maker.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:23 pm 
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This sounds kind of crazy to me.

For some addicts suboxone was their first choice of treatment and now they lead very fulfilling lives. I just don't agree and don't like this whole mentality that suboxone should be your last option. People might die in the time that they try several rehabs. Why not just start living normally today? Idk. There is this push that suboxone is like a radical way of doing this recovery from opiates thing, but in my experience with hundreds even thousands of opiate addicts is that this is what works the best to get them back on their feet and back into normal living. Of course you need some other treatment to go with it, but the success rates of trying to stay clean from opiates without suboxone speak for themselves.

Just seems like too much of a risk to just not take it because you are so worried about how to get off of it... Before you have even started. For now... Just worry about not using heroin and trying to live somewhat normally.

It takes work though don't get it twisted. Even with suboxone you have to really work at this to get to a comfortable place/become a better person.

So. Why not give yourself the best possible chance at recovery? That's just the way I see it. And. The amount of people living full lives without having to chase dope on suboxone are far more than those not on suboxone. That is unless you want to spend every waking moment of your life focused on NA or recovery in some way.

Ahhh. I'm rambling. These are just my opinions and you don't have to listen to any of them. I just felt they needed said so you could see both sides of the coin here.

Also. Don't sit around and wait a day or two to take suboxone. I have pretty normal metabolism and I took my first dose about 8 hours after my last few bags. My good friend in recovery is also on sub and took his only a few hours after his last use.

So it's different for everyone. But. I can tell you that trying to wait until you are horribly ill.... Is foolish. Waste of time you could be enjoying.

Good luck.

Hope you do well here.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:38 am 
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I'm ready to try again. It's been about 3 weeks since I've last posted.

This time I am out of opiates except for the Subutex. I have been decreasing the heroin use (sniffing) over the past several days and now its all gone and there is no easy way to get more.

I have a friend staying with me know to help with day to day tasks and my dogs so I can focus on the transition from H to bupe. I have a bunch of Valium and Xanax and I'll use as little of those as I can as comfort drugs. I'm excited and nervous but I don't think there is any way to wimp out now. Time will take its course. I will post again soon.

Hogan


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:44 am 
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I'm starting my 3rd day on subs 48hrs and I have no energy and I feel terrible but I'm off the heroin! I'm not sure how long it will take to improve.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:08 am 
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OTMA,

hey! glad you gave the sub a try, and didnt leave us hangin!

so your going on your 3rd day on sub, and your having low energy? It can take a little while to get used to sub for some people. How much sub are you taking? Is the low energy the only thing your expirencing?

Just give it a few days at the right dose and you should be feeling better


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:48 pm 
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that is what I'm hoping. I'm on my 4th day - about 80hrs. I still feel terrible. much better but no energy and strong cravings. I'm taking about 8mg subs per day nasally. I'm trying to eat as much as I can and start to move around. hopefully tile will fix this.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:43 pm 
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i'm now on my 6th day of subs. starting to feel much better. it takes a long time for this stuff to work when you've been using a lot of opiates so if anyone else is in this boat they need to prepare for this. don't expect bupe to give you solid relief for a week or so if you have a high tolerance. i only have a limited amount of subutex available so i'm going to start decreasing subs now. lets see how that goes. im at about 8mg/day right now


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:56 am 
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OpiatesThrowMeaway wrote:
that is what I'm hoping. I'm on my 4th day - about 80hrs. I still feel terrible. much better but no energy and strong cravings. I'm taking about 8mg subs per day nasally. I'm trying to eat as much as I can and start to move around. hopefully tile will fix this.


Dude don't snort your Subutex! It totally defeats the purpose. We take Subutex/Suboxone/Methadone to distance ourselves from our addiction, not just to switch substances and continue with our using behaviours. It's ridiculous. I was an IV drug user. Do you think it's justified for me to IV my bupe? Nup.

A lot of members spent their time in this thread encouraging you in your recovery, and I gotta say I was disappointed to find out you intended to snort your Subutex.


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