It is currently Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:24 am



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Induction-Relapse
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:25 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:40 pm
Posts: 631
SisterMorphine wrote:
yep, no wds. BUT i didn't know wds were a possibility. so if i had been anticipating them maybe I would have felt them?
as far as the name i was thinking you were an earnhart dr. fan! you know, dale jrs dad's # is 3.

Hey Sister, not sure if the quote function is working for me but giving it a try. I've been traveling on a project and now back here checking in. I believe not knowing WDs were a possibility during bup induction did help you. I stopped bup not knowing it had WDs and my WDs were minor. Stopping went pretty well. So I DO think we can psyche ourselves out and make it worse for ourselves. There's way too much crappolla addict drama on the internet that we all read and its tragic really bc most addicts read it and then take that horrid info and make it even more horrid and hard on themselves. So sad how we make things worse for ourselves and for each other.

Altho its not why the OP named himself, good catch bc I kept thinking juniorsdad3 sounded familiar and missed the connection to nascar, which i enjoy.

Wishing all a beautiful day. it is where I am today. was great days in every place I went this past couple wks. we live in a gorgeous country! P

_________________
Did well on Suboxone. Stopped May 2011.
Stopping went well -- its the staying stopped -- where the real work begins.
Coming here 'keeps recovery green'.


Last edited by Pelican on Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Induction-Relapse
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:06 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:40 pm
Posts: 631
Hey juniorsdad3,

Happy to hear you got on bup. Sad to hear it will be too short of time. Bc you're a hidden addict and spent lots of $$$ on H, it sounds to me like you've eviscerated yourself - emotionally stabbed and sliced yourself open w toxic shame and transferred your anger to others and inward to you (like many of us do) and now decide bc of no insurance you can't stay on bup? I don't understand. Makes no sense to me. You mentioned the word twisted and that's what's going on still w your thinking. I urge you to stay on bup. Imo, you're not yet ready to stop. Get on and stay on for awhile. and while on, work on getting you ready to be off opiates. docm2 just mentioned smart recovery in another thread. Amy often does too. its online as well as some local meetings. I'm almost 6 yrs off bup and no way could i have stayed off my doc wo working on me while being on bup. NO way. Others from my clinic group and NA say the same. Btw, by that time stopping went pretty well. I began forgetting to take it and then once day, just stopped. I say that to remind folks that the bup WD horror stories may well be just the classic addict drama thinking, which does NOT make these thoughts true. Truth and reality are often the opposite of addict thinking. Work on your recovery and you'll learn all this. really helps. Wishing you my best juniorsdad3 and sorry this is all so hard, P

_________________
Did well on Suboxone. Stopped May 2011.
Stopping went well -- its the staying stopped -- where the real work begins.
Coming here 'keeps recovery green'.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Induction-Relapse
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:18 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:12 pm
Posts: 20
Sister Morphine, We used to have a joke about the meaning of NASCAR (Non Athletic Sport Centering Around Red Necks). :D
Your posts are inspiring and I what I like about this forum is that all of you are supportive and non judgemental.
I am having trouble getting started. I start the induction, dont feel well and run back to the H. I am disgusted with myself. I need to buckle down and follow a plan that is going to get my tolerance down and help me get off everything in as short period of time.
I am going to start the induction again with 4mg. I have. Regardless to how I feel I am staying on that for a few days until I feel good them I am decrease as suggested on the site. My goal is to not get addicted to the subs. Dont want to start all over again.
Keep my in your thoughts and prayers. I have to get over this once and for all.


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject: Re: Induction-Relapse
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:32 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:12 pm
Posts: 20
Peliocan,
WOW. Just read your post really slowly and carefully. What a wake up cal. Thank you for the reality check. I needed that. No sugar coating. Thank you.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Induction-Relapse
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:31 am 
Offline
Super-Duper Poster
Super-Duper Poster
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:01 pm
Posts: 353
Location: Mid-Atlantic
juniorsdad3 wrote:
Sister Morphine, We used to have a joke about the meaning of NASCAR (Non Athletic Sport Centering Around Red Necks). :D
Your posts are inspiring and I what I like about this forum is that all of you are supportive and non judgemental.

I have heard he NASCAR acronym before. NASCAR is really fun in person. I used to go to a lot of races, but I don't have a fav racer, which would have made it more fun.
Thanks! we've all been through this, so we have lots of insight.

_________________
Get your shit together and live your life." Black Snake Moan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Induction-Relapse
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:04 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:12 pm
Posts: 20
Please help me understand this. I have Naloxone tabs. I understand if I take them it will put me into PWD's immediately. Would this be a good time to start induction? In my mind it is achieving the same results,
Please help me understand this better.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Induction-Relapse
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:56 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:31 pm
Posts: 18
Juniorsdad, I definitely would NOT take any naloxone tabs. I'm not sure exactly what would happen if you took the subs as soon as you went into PWD, but I wouldn't do it. Wait at least 16 hours preferably 24 hours and take a very TINY piece of sub. That way if you do get any PWD it will be very mild since you only took a small dose. That is what I did yesterday after being away from subs on a 4 month dope binge. You will feel a bit weird for the first couple days, but after that you'll feel great. I personally LOVE bupe at small doses 2x a day. Such as 0.5-1mg twice a day, once in morning and once in the evening. If you get this right you will feel good after every dose and it'll make it much easier to taper off. I stayed at less than 2mg for over a year before my last relapse and felt great the whole time. However, if you're planning on getting a sub doc and getting on maintenance then maybe it'd be good to start higher and slowly taper. Anyway, good luck man. I hope that you get back on the subs and stay away from the dope.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Induction-Relapse
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:42 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:15 pm
Posts: 2313
Location: Tennessee
I'm not sure what ur talking about naloxone tablets.... do u mean u have suboxone?

I know u said ur used to taking suboxone then using pretty quick afterwards right? So ur somewhat familiar with the way it works as far as how long to wait after ur last dose of opiates, right? So what u should do is, wait around 24 hrs from ur last dose (or score high enough on ur COWS scale which u can google I think) and then start with around 2mg. Then after about 30-45 min take another small dose of suboxone.... keep repeating that until u have reached ur desired dose. U don't have to start out at 2mg, I just used that as an example, take a smaller dose if u want. Just do a little at a time.

Even if u got pw, it will go away. U just keep dosing ur normal dose every day. The pw will ease up as time goes by. I didn't get pw, it's not as common as u have urself convinced that it is. I understand ur worry, but once u do ur induction, u won't have to worry any longer. Even ppl that do get pw, it's not severe and pretty tolerable. So try not to think about that so much because ur overthinking it.

I don't think u should ever have any opiates on the side for the 'just in case' scenario. It's only restarting the process over and over again. Make ur induction time and make sure u do not have any drugs around or in ur home. U will never succeed like that. I'm pulling for ya! U can do this, it's not as bad as ur thinking it will be.

_________________
Jennifer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Induction-Relapse
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:54 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:40 pm
Posts: 631
Hey juniorsdad,
Hope others/a Dr will correct my response if needed.

Your question, can you use naloxone tablets to induct on sub? Guessing you mean naltrexone tabs bc oral naloxone doesn't get absorbed into the body's circulation to get to the brain's receptors.

Its basically the same NO answer to your prior thread question - can Narcan aka naloxone, which is given by nose, shot, or vein, be used to put one in WD so induction can be safely started? NO.

Per Dr J, Narcan will not work to induct. See below*. Nor will naltrexone tabs, plus naltrexone lasts a lot longer than narcan's 20 -40". So if you take some naltrexone tabs, looks like you'd suffer severe precipitated withdrawals (PWs) for ~13 - 48hrs. Naltrexone can and will cause severe PWs, some requiring hospitalization, even ICU, for severe diarrhea and vomiting. Do this only if you really hate yourself. Per Dr J, you won't die but wish you would. The symptoms of spontaneous opiate withdrawal from discontinuation of heroin are uncomfortable to tough but when withdrawal is precipitated abruptly by the administration of an opioid antagonist to an opioid-dependent patient, you'd be experiencing a FAR worse severity level compared to natural withdrawal.

Bup induction needs both 1) decreased/removed heroin from your receptors AND 2) lowered tolerance, which is why time off heroin works. Time does both. Narcan/naltrexone do not do both, they only remove the H from the receptors but don't lower tolerance. Lowering tolerance takes time. Bup has a lower tolerance than H and if you don't give your brain some time ~12-24 hrs to lower your tolerance closer to bup’s, you'll still have marked PWs w starting bup right after the short acting narcan. So putting yourself thru narcan misery would be a wasted torturous effort. Naltrexone tab’s opiate blockaid lasts much longer, it’d put you in severe PWs for maybe ~13-48hrs and adding bup after wouldn't hurt but won't help till naltrexone's opiate blockaid diminishes much later.

*Juniorsdad Narcan and Induction thread
narcan-and-induction-t13339.html

_________________
Did well on Suboxone. Stopped May 2011.
Stopping went well -- its the staying stopped -- where the real work begins.
Coming here 'keeps recovery green'.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group