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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:34 am 
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Hi everyone, I decided to make a post here cause I couldn't find much info on the web about my particular problem. Long story short after using normal opiates of many different kinds over a ten year basis I finally was able to stop using, completely on my own, for almost a full year. Then my life spiraled into a bad time in my life and again to make a long story short I found out that loperamide does indeed cross the blood brain barrier in high enough doses. I started taking 40 a day. 9 months later I was at 130. I started to have heart problems and knew I had to do something. Over the next month I was able to wean down to 94 pills but that's when my heart problems really got bad and I knew I had to cease using lope or I could die. Anyways the Doctor not only believed me but said she had 5 other cases this past year of someone being addicted to loperamide. I was already 50 hours out from my last dose and was withdrawing bad. They started me on a low does though only 2 mg twice a day. I tried just dealing with that yesterday but it almost didn't even phase my withdrawls. Luckily I had access to some subs on the street and upped my does to about 12 mgs throughout the day. I still feel like complete hell but today is heaven compared to yesterday. They said they will probably raise my dose but I have to wait til Monday. Like I said if I hadn't had access to the limited extra subs I found (which will give me 12 mgs tomorrow and 10 the next day) I would have given up. I just wonder if me still feeling bad has to do with me needing even more sub then 12 mgs? Or is it just a residual effect that will eventually get better? Either way I'm determined to do this, taper off the subs, and stay the hell away from opiates for good. There's a lot left out of this story because it's a long one but if anyone has any questions just let me know.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:47 am 
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Hey rem I am a newbie here so I certainly don't wanna offer any advice to you as I have only been on sub for a couple weeks but the people here are HELLA AWESOME and I am sure will respond soon with advice..But I just had to say when I read your post my jaw hit the floor...I don't think I have ever heard of this type of issue.. I am glad to hear your doing better but please be careful buying sub off the street..Anyway my question is did you do induction at the doc office or did they just tell u to do it at home?? Because seems to me they should have seen it if 4mg wasn't working at induction just curious


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:41 am 
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They were indeed supposed to do it at the office. Lots of things went wrong that day. They told me they didnt have any 2mg strips in the building and told me to just fill it and take one at home. To back things up a bit the lady who gave me the COWS examination was trying to tell me I was going to get given Naloxone. I almost left the building after hearing this but something told me to just wait and talk to the doctor. When I told the doctor about this she actually stormed out of the room and I could here her scolding the lady before telling me she prescribed me suboxone. Anyways so I went to the pharmacy to pick them up and was told that my insurance wasn't approving it. So I had to wait til the next morning before I could call the office back. It wasn't til nine am that I got my script. I also think the pharmacy screwed up cause they gave me all sixty of the strips which I am taking only as directed cause I know they will want me to bring those in on monday. So I know buying on the street wasnt a good option but it seemed like the only one available as bad as I was kicking I was almost ready to go steal a bottle of lope. Another question for anyone on here is what could I do or say to make them understand that 8 mg twice a day is the dose I need? Through experimentation thats what I found isn't too little and isn't too much. I'm trying to keep it as low as possible but high enough that I can function and not be sick all the time.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:20 am 
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Hi Rem,

Wow, I have to say this is definitely a first for me. I'm having a bit of a hard time figuring this one out to be honest.

There is probably a good reason they only started you on 2mg. I have always been under the impression that loperamide only effected the opiate receptors in your bowel...not the brain. Are you absolutely sure that the wd effects you're having are OPIATE wd's and not just related to over using the lope itself? I just don't see how you could be receiving much, if any opiate crossing over. I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm calling you out. I'm really not, I just don't really get it.

Unfortunately, I think you would have an incredibly hard time convincing a doctor that you need 16mgs a day for this particular situation.

Of course, I could be absolutely wrong here...I guess. It has happened before.

Dr. J, can you please chime in on this one? I'm stumped.

Q

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:19 pm 
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I too had to do some research on this drug before responding. The mind is a funny thing. IMO, ride out the storm and stabilze on the 2 mg's and you should be alright in a week or two.

Like Q, I could be totally wrong on this one. It is hard to give an opinion with limited knowledge of a drug taken long term. Suboxone is strong, even at 2 mg's. You can certainly try to convince your doctor you need the larger amount but he may not abide by it. Personally, I see no harm in giving you 16 mg's per day until you stabilize. It is a lot though.

Hopefully, one of our forum doctors will chime in here and clear this one up for us.

r

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:26 pm 
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I live with my room mate and his wife and they too were on the high dose loperimide. When they told me they were going to try to get on suboxone I laughed at them and told them they better cop some h and make sure it's in their urine before they try. They didn't though and they went in and came back with 16 mg a day scripts. Their inductions went better than mine did all they ended up with was a few hours of stomach pains. The day I inducted I took 4 mg and started to feel half better. I waited a couple hours started to feel kind of worse so I took another 4 then it kind of helped so I waited again and took another 4 mg. This is the weird part. It was around 5 pm and at that point I went through the most wicked 5 hours of withdrawal I have ever had. I was literally crying I was in so much pain. At some point around maybe 10 it started to subside. I was still kinda sick yesterday. Today I woke up with withdrawals and took both 2 mg strips and I actually feel the best I have since this whole thing has started. I know that the debates on rather or not loperamide crosses the blood brain barrier rages on across the web but the fact is the addiction to it is very much real and by the time I was 50 hours in I was in moderate withdrawal possibly bordering severe. Chills, goosbumps, dialted pupils, nausea the whole nine yards. I am glad we all were lucky enough to find a doctor that was willing to prescribe suboxone. When the doc saw me though she could immediately tell I was kicking pretty hard and even said so. I'm so glad she went against the advice of the addiction counselor whom was going to give me naloxone and even scolded her for it. There isn't much info on the effects of very high dose loperamide usage but I did find some accounts of people suffering from cardiac arythmias after being on high dose lope for a long time. When my room mates went on sub I decided I was going to just wean off cause it would be easier. It took me almost three months just to drop down from 130 to 94 pills. By then though I started having heart problems and a few weeks ago what I still believe to have been a minor heart attack with chest pains for two days afterwards. Anyways thats a bit more to the story. I'm going to try to get by with 4 mg for most of today cause I don't have to work or anything and see how I feel tonight.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:51 pm 
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Hi rem,

I'm glad you're feeling better today. In all honesty, it really doesn't matter what your drug of choice is. I'm certain that taking that high of a dose of loperamide is incredibly dangerous. An addiction is an addiction. If suboxone helps you, then I certainly think you deserve to have access to it.

I was just a bit thrown off by your thread because I have never heard of this happening before.

Just a tip though, it does take several days or even a couple weeks for the bupe to fully saturate your receptors and make you feel good again. Be patient with it and it will eventually level out.

I'm certainly glad you were able to find a doctor who took you seriously.

Q

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:28 am 
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Just wanted to leave an update. Last Wednesday I went to my doctor appointment. I was terrified when she started talking like she was going to take me off the suboxone. Apparently there was a miscommunication error because the addiction counselor (for who knows what reason) though it wasn't important to tell the doctor that I had a ten year addiction history with hydrocodone, morphine, oxycodone, and fentanyl. Once I told her this she raised my dose to 8 mgs a day. I feel completely normal now aside from having my back pain back and no more breezing through work days full of energy and numb to pain. That's the price I have to pay though for a clean life. Prescription pills ruined me financially and when I found loperamide and thought that was my ace in the hole I found out it was causing me to have heart issues along with an inflamed liver. So I guess a little bit of pain and my work days seeming twice is long isn't that bad of a price to be alive and not broke 24/7. So yeah It was a loooong week but I am finally stable on the suboxone.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 3:38 am 
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I'm glad to hear that you're on a steady dose of sub and that it's working for you, even though you seem a little depressed. Has your doctor talked to you about dosing for pain? You could take 2mg every 6 hours or so to help with the pain.

Getting through the long days does feel daunting at first. I was not employed when I went on sub and I had a hard time imagining that I could look forward to something again without pain meds. It takes time, but you will find that it gets easier to find small things throughout the day to look forward to.

Amy

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:04 pm 
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Hey REM listen to amy I was trippin on the fact that all that awesome energy at work was history when I went on sub (only on my 4th week)and I was being treated for chronic pain as well..Now I take part of my daily dose in 2mg doses and it made hella difference with some ibuprofen not completely gone but managed...I even started getting my energy back about the 6th day ...


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