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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:54 am 
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Hello everyone,

Thanks to this forum and reading over it the last 2 weeks I decided to take the step towards getting sober from Vicodin and every now and again Oxys. I have been using for the last 14 months and originally started on them due to some issues with wisdom teeth. The vicodin that I was prescribed for a month made me feel really good and helped me sleep at night which was something I had been struggling with for a couple years.

Once my script ran out I made the poor choice of reaching out to friends to buy some outright. Continued to do this and started building up a tolerance. About 4 months ago I started to hit my peak for what I was taking a day, roughly 100 to 140 mgs depending on what I could get my hands on. I decided at this time to start snorting them a couple times a day and about a week into this was only snorting them, eating them just didn't mentally do it for me anymore.

Over the last couple months things started to go downhill mentally for me, I was no longer really feeling good or high off the vicodin and started mixing Oxys in and I finally came to the conclusion that I was becoming a wreck. I ended up missing a day here, a day there from work when I couldn't get any pills because my mind was all over the place and I looked so bad at work people starting wondering what was up.

This last month I started looking into ways to end the habit including trying to go cold turkey but was concerned that I couldn't really miss a week from work. I did manage over a two week period to taper my vicodin usage down from the 100 to 140 mg a day to around 50 to 65 mg but I started to hit a wall, i was having some bad anxiety issues which I had never experienced before, couldn't really sleep at all unless I snorted some vicodin which would help for about 2 hours then I found myself waking up to snort a little more to go back to sleep.

I finally came across the fact that Suboxone existed and was a way to help with the addiction and withdrawal symptoms. I thankfully have great insurance through work so I finally was able to get into a local center earlier this week to speak with a Therapist on Wednesday, then I got to see the doctor on Thursday. I took my last 10 MG vicodin Friday morning around 730 AM then proceeded to work a 9 hour shift at work. Was good half way through the shift then my mind and body started to feel it. I managed to get home safely and had a light dinner and ate a couple bananas just to get something into me. I spent the evening and night just drinking a ton of water and blowing my noses every couple minutes. I actually doze off and got a few decent hours of sleep.

Today I woke up this morning to go see the doctor for my induction. Got there at 9 AM, he went over the COWS scale to make sure I was having enough withdrawals so there wouldn't be an issue (26 hours clean so I was good to go) and then he gave me the script for the 8 mg films to grab them from a local pharmacy and come back to start the process. Figures the first CVS I went to didn't have it to fill since I was starting to feel horrible and struggling to keep a smile on my face when speaking to the people in CVS. Thankfully the one a couple miles away could fill the script and it only took 5 minutes.

I got back to the doctor with the script at 10 am and he cut one of the films in half and had me take it. Wow these taste somewhat nasty but it is what it is. I was kind of upset that once I took it instead of having me sit in a quiet room by myself I was told to go back out into the busy waiting room or that I could walk around outside if I wanted to. Just be back to the doctor by 10:30 am. Anyway about 15 minutes into it I started to feel better, no more sweating or goosebumps, the aches throughout my body started to go away. I went back to the doctor and he told me that going forward for the next week I should take 4 mg in the morning and 4 mg in the evening each day and next Saturday to come back for a follow up.

All in all not as bad as I expected with doing the induction. Now about the amount he wants me to take I am not sure I want to take 8 mg a day since I was down to just 60ish mg of vicodin a day before the switch. I think I will try to just do 4 mg in the morning each day this week but if I don't feel stable then I will add another 2 mg or the other 4 mg as recommended. Do you all figure that should be okay for me? I am in this to just do Suboxone short term and hope to be off it in 2 to 4 months and never touch an Opiate again.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:30 pm 
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ZombieNoMore wrote:
All in all not as bad as I expected with doing the induction. Now about the amount he wants me to take I am not sure I want to take 8 mg a day since I was down to just 60ish mg of vicodin a day before the switch. I think I will try to just do 4 mg in the morning each day this week but if I don't feel stable then I will add another 2 mg or the other 4 mg as recommended. Do you all figure that should be okay for me? I am in this to just do Suboxone short term and hope to be off it in 2 to 4 months and never touch an Opiate again.


Hi ZombieNoMore, and welcome to the forum! Your opiate experience sounds a lot like mine! I got my first opiates from the dentist for wisdom teeth extractions, and I was taking about the same amount as you were, but for about 2 years. I also started mixing it with Percocets at the end. And I tapered to about 50-60mg the week before induction.

My doctor prescribed me 24mg/day at first, but I only took 8mg and was fine. But that was actually too much for me, and I got down to 4mg/day by the end of the first week. That is where I am at now, and it kept me out of withdrawal, and continues to keep my cravings away.

I think your plan sounds just fine. It's good to find the lowest dose possible for you...and you can always go up later if you need to.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:57 pm 
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Taurus wrote:
ZombieNoMore wrote:
All in all not as bad as I expected with doing the induction. Now about the amount he wants me to take I am not sure I want to take 8 mg a day since I was down to just 60ish mg of vicodin a day before the switch. I think I will try to just do 4 mg in the morning each day this week but if I don't feel stable then I will add another 2 mg or the other 4 mg as recommended. Do you all figure that should be okay for me? I am in this to just do Suboxone short term and hope to be off it in 2 to 4 months and never touch an Opiate again.


Hi ZombieNoMore, and welcome to the forum! Your opiate experience sounds a lot like mine! I got my first opiates from the dentist for wisdom teeth extractions, and I was taking about the same amount as you were, but for about 2 years. I also started mixing it with Percocets at the end. And I tapered to about 50-60mg the week before induction.

My doctor prescribed me 24mg/day at first, but I only took 8mg and was fine. But that was actually too much for me, and I got down to 4mg/day by the end of the first week. That is where I am at now, and it kept me out of withdrawal, and continues to keep my cravings away.

I think your plan sounds just fine. It's good to find the lowest dose possible for you...and you can always go up later if you need to.


Thank you for the response. If you don't mind me asking how long have you been on Suboxone now? Have you decided whether to stay on it for a while or are you aiming to get off Subs over the next few months?

I really would like to get off Subs within 60 days and I am okay with the fact that I will probably experience some withdrawal symptoms at that time but hopefully nothing to horrible. I would like to only be on 4 mg a day for the next week or so and plan to start cutting it back if possible.

It has been now 3 hours since I took the 4 mg and I feel really good overall, just made breakfast for the wife and I. I am a little concerned though because I do feel almost a little too good in my head from this. I am wondering if the 4 mg is actually making me a little high / buzzed. I don't want to experience that feeling from these and if this is the case I might cut down to just 2 mg tomorrow and see what happens.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:27 pm 
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I am at about 5 and a half hours from doing the induction now and I have had a slight headache for the last 45 minutes or so now. I still feel a little buzzed and am also getting sleepy. I am actually going to go outside for a little to see if that helps at all. I am hoping the headache was just from the secondary stuff in the film strip to keep people from abusing it. Next time once it dissolves I will make sure to spit out what I can and wash my mouth also.

How long should one wait to let the strip dissolve in your mouth before trying to spit out the nasty stuff that gives people headaches?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:17 pm 
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Hi zombie - glad you're doing well so far. People hold it in their mouths for varying lengths of time, but usually a minimum of 10-15 minutes is fine. Those strips are nasty tasting, aren't they? That's why I'm still on the tablets. Lol.

Oh, and feeling sort of "high" in the beginning of sub treatment is common and it should subside for you very soon. Suboxone is very strong, as you're finding out, but give yourself a chance to stabilize and it will pass. If you continue to feel "loopy" (as I say) and tired, then that can be an indicator that one's dose is too high. Just keep that in the back of your mind. I hope you find the right dose quickly. Good luck in your continued treatment and welcome to the forum.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:12 pm 
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I felt really lightheaded...almost high...for the first 2 days. The 3rd day I felt pretty normal, and by the 4th day I felt completely normal. I got the headaches too, and they got really really bad, like migraines, to the point of having to vomit the first couple of days. Aleve is the only thing that seemed to help. But once I started spitting out the excess saliva after the film disolved (about 20 minutes), the headaches subsided.

I have been on subs for only 3 1/2 months. At first my plan was to just wean off the hydro, but the subs helped me with my depression and shoulder pain that I have had for most of my life, not to mention the cravings for any drugs or alcohol, so I ended up staying on them. I've played around with my dose a bit...went up to 6mg, and down to 2mg, but I feel the best at around 4mg.

My worst side effect is the constipation, but I started taking a stool softener daily, and that helps a bit. So just make sure that you don't go too long without having a bowel movement! I didn't notice that I hadn't had one until a full week after my induction, and I started taking meds to make me go, but I didn't end up actually going until the 9th day and it wasn't a pleasant experience!!

Feel free to ask any more questions, that's what we are here for!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:54 pm 
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hatmaker and Taurus thanks for the feedback, it is really helping me out.

The headaches are gone for now along with the buzz / high feeling. I am just feeling somewhat normal now which is nice to feel again.

It is kind of funny that when I was doing all the vicodins and then oxys every now and again I never really had issues with constipation. Before taking them I have always been the type of person who would go once or even twice a day. Even on them I still found myself going once a day I would say 9 out of 10 days and only in the last month did I have one week were I actually was having trouble going with really hard bowel movements.

I picked up some stuff just in case if this becomes an issue so that I will be ready. I will make that the #1 thing I watch and track.

Also I will make sure that after about 20 minutes of letting these dissolve in my mouth that I spit out all the extra saliva. Do you think it would be okay to wash my mouth out with water also around this time to get as much of the Naproxin or whatever it is called out of my mouth?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:02 pm 
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Hello!!!
and welcome.....................

Glad to hear your induction went pretty 'smooth'

thats great.
And good job on getting outta the 'game' or whatever you want to call it when you did. I wish I would have been smart enough to stop, when it first started spiraling,,,,,,, but I digress.............

How long you want to be on suboxone, is your choice. Many people take into account, how long thier 'using career' was, and whether or not they need something besides over the counter pain meds for daily life, also.

Ive been on suboxone almost 14 months. and to tell ya the truth, its been the best 14 months EVER.

Really, Ive never been happier.

So I wish you the best, keep 'truckin' along. sounds like your doing great :lol:

and welcome to our lil community :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:20 pm 
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You should probably not wash out your mouth because there is probably still some buprenorphine in there at this point that can still be absorbed. Enough of the naloxone will be removed when you just spit out the majority of the excess saliva. This is an excerpt from one of Dr. Junigs blog entries:

"The third factor is time– the longer period of time, the longer for the buprenorphine to make contact with the mucous membranes, attach to the surface, get absorbed into the tissue, and enter the capillaries. The initial process will be the saturation of the surfaces of the mucous membranes, and the slower process will be the passage into the tissue; that is why the amount of surface area has such an important effect on absorption. The onset of action of the drug suggests that fifteen minutes is sufficient for most of the absorption to occur; there may be drug remaining that is attached to the surface but not yet fully absorbed, and so I recommend avoiding eating or drinking within another fifteen minutes or so."

Here is the link in case you would like to read the entire thing: http://suboxonetalkzone.com/?p=1179


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:02 pm 
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Taurus wrote:
You should probably not wash out your mouth because there is probably still some buprenorphine in there at this point that can still be absorbed. Enough of the naloxone will be removed when you just spit out the majority of the excess saliva. This is an excerpt from one of Dr. Junigs blog entries:

"The third factor is time– the longer period of time, the longer for the buprenorphine to make contact with the mucous membranes, attach to the surface, get absorbed into the tissue, and enter the capillaries. The initial process will be the saturation of the surfaces of the mucous membranes, and the slower process will be the passage into the tissue; that is why the amount of surface area has such an important effect on absorption. The onset of action of the drug suggests that fifteen minutes is sufficient for most of the absorption to occur; there may be drug remaining that is attached to the surface but not yet fully absorbed, and so I recommend avoiding eating or drinking within another fifteen minutes or so."

Here is the link in case you would like to read the entire thing:


Thank you, that is the perfect answer and information I was looking for. Makes perfect sense not to washout my mouth at that time, just spit out the extra saliva building up.

Been 11 hours since I took the 1st 4 mg as mentioned, well the last hour I started to feel not too good getting kind of sleepy, clammy and my nose running like when I was going through the withdrawal period leading up to this morning to do the induction. The doc said I should do 4 mg this evening which I didn't want to do, so I just stuck 2 mg more under my tongue a couple minutes ago. I understand how important it is to hit the right dose to stabilize at first and then taper down from there if you want to so I figured I should take a little more instead of going overnight feeling not the best. I will report back in a little with how this went.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:37 am 
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Well I didn't really sleep at all last night. My body was tired and exhausted but my mind just didn't want to power down.

I got up this morning about 7 am which is the time I need to get up during the week for work. I was going to just take 2 mg but was struggling to get the film to stay under my tongue. I got it wet and had part of it come off on my finger so I added 1 mg more and got that one correctly under. 20 minutes later I spit out all the extra saliva and haven't had any headaches this morning. I even managed to have a normal bowel movement also so no worries with constipation either.

I just got done mowing my yard and spending about 90 minutes doing it. Took a nice 15 minute shower and now I feel like either I am buzzing a little or just wanting to doze off. Gonna go lay down and see if that is what is going on.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:53 pm 
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Hey.. Congrats on your first step towards recovery!!
I just wanted to point something out after reading your posts.. How much you used before plays just a small part in how much sub one will need to take, for the most part how much you used really means nothing. It's not a one size fits all treatment so no one can really tell you what dose is best for you as it is different for everyone no matter how much you used before. The only thing anyone can really help you with regarding dose is to tell you if your taking too much or too little depending on your symptoms or side effects. Alot of different factors contribute to what dose is best for you, alot of it actually depends on your body, metabolism & cravings. You may have been down to 60mg of vicodin and the next person could have been taking 400mg of oxy a day, depending on each persons body and a bunch of other things, the person with the 400mg oxy habit might be stable on 8mg a day and you might feel your best at 16mg a day, just an example that ones habit doesnt play a big part in it, it mostly depends on your body. By the way 16-24mg a day is imo about the average dose that most take so 8mg is not a high dose at all, if anything thats a relatively low dose. Good Luck with everything though and stick around and keep us updated on how you are.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:21 pm 
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sodone wrote:
Hey.. Congrats on your first step towards recovery!!
I just wanted to point something out after reading your posts.. How much you used before plays just a small part in how much sub one will need to take, for the most part how much you used really means nothing. It's not a one size fits all treatment so no one can really tell you what dose is best for you as it is different for everyone no matter how much you used before. The only thing anyone can really help you with regarding dose is to tell you if your taking too much or too little depending on your symptoms or side effects. Alot of different factors contribute to what dose is best for you, alot of it actually depends on your body, metabolism & cravings. You may have been down to 60mg of vicodin and the next person could have been taking 400mg of oxy a day, depending on each persons body and a bunch of other things, the person with the 400mg oxy habit might be stable on 8mg a day and you might feel your best at 16mg a day, just an example that ones habit doesnt play a big part in it, it mostly depends on your body. By the way 16-24mg a day is imo about the average dose that most take so 8mg is not a high dose at all, if anything thats a relatively low dose. Good Luck with everything though and stick around and keep us updated on how you are.


Thank you for the response. I wish I had a week off work to figure out were I would feel most stable.

Current update slept the last 3 hours or so. Was an odd type of sleep but was relaxing. I am gonna go out and run some errands for the next hour or so and see my mother for about an hour after that. I plan to dose 4 mg more this evening.

One thing I noticed today is that I have managed to blow a ton of nasty stuff out of my sinuses and have actually been breathing better than before out my nose. Sadly when I feel asleep and woke up I am a little stuffy again but I am getting there.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:59 pm 
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Checking in one last time tonight. Took 4 mg around 7PM ( I am aiming to take 4 mg at night and 2 mg in the morning if this amount can stabilize me). Actually feel normally since, no buzz or high. I have been eating some bananas and almonds just to get some food into me that is suppose to help with naturally being sleepy and just made it through the season premier of True Blood.

All in all not a bad weekend, if I can get a decent amount of sleep tonight before work tomorrow I will call my induction a huge success.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:57 pm 
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Well first day on suboxone while working all day long is in the books.

Took 3 mg in the morning (should have took 4) and about 5 hours into work I went on my lunch break. I wasn't quiet feeling right, so I came home on my hour lunch and took 2 more mg. Once my body absorbed that I felt normal and ready for the rest of the day. This evening I took 4 mg (wasn't thinking that I took 5 already not 4 mg so I messed up a little here since I am trying to stay at 8 mg or less) and now I am feeling really relaxed from a long day. I am going to read a book and get some sleep here shortly hopefully. Looking forward to another good nights sleep like last night if possible.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:42 am 
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Sounds like you're on your way to stabilizing. Keep up the good work and thanks for the updates.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:56 pm 
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Day 4 is in the books.

Slept really well again last night. I am now just doing 4 mg in the morning around 7 am and 4 mg in the evening around 7pm. Seems to work best for me when it comes to feeling completely stable. Started to get a little constipated so picked up some Dulcalax which helped after about 8 hours.

I am not really getting headaches, but I am spitting out extra saliva each time around 25 minutes into taking the meds. I will probably post a few more updates either once a day or every other day so others can see my results.

I would highly recommend suboxone to anyone who is trying to get off opiates instead of going cold turkey. I have had zero cravings all week and really no withdrawal symptoms during the induction. I go back to see the doctor Saturday and will start to work with him about how I want to eventually be off of suboxone also.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:39 pm 
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Dear Zombie...

Well I have a different take it seems from everyone else...I am kind of with oxyclean...what are you going to do when you taper off the bup and are left with nothing. Do you think you can honestly go back to living like the earth people out there?
Clean and Sober and not craving anymore drugs???? I honestly hope you can..i really do..and I do not mean to be evil or discouraging...but I have seen it soooo many times...going right back to where you were...ruining your life...
It might take a week , or a month or two but it will come if you are an addict. I am not saying you are.''But I know I am, and I am also an old lady who has been through a 29 year addiction with opiates..and I hate to see any young person
with their whole life ahead of them...end up like I did..29 years of hell on earth..If I had suboxone then..I would
have been spared the hell.

You are not me...and may do just fine..and I pray you do...I just had to mention the "other side"

...8mg. of bup is not a large dose...you could stay on it for a year or two...get your life together...get in the habit of
not taking pain pills..not have cravings for drugs...

This is all my own opinion...and many will not agree...but I just had to mention it...like what is the rush to get off??

Please don 't self dose and do what your doctor tells you to do...right now I think you really need to take at least the
8mg. regularly. Again...this is all my opinion...and I am no doctor...

Whatever you do..I wish you the very best of everything and hope all goes well for you..Keep us posted as all of us
are here for you.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:37 am 
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I like how you put that slipper..."back to living like the earth people out there."

Hahah, that made me laugh! :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:14 am 
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Hello again,

In regards to do I think I can kick the habit once I taper off Sub? Yes I know I can do it and have 100% faith I will stay clean. My sources to get Vicodin are gone which helps, and I have a great family for a support system.


Today is Friday and 15 minutes ago I hit the full 1 week mark from the last time I took a Vicodin. Still doing 8 mg of Sub a day and I go to see the doctor tomorrow.

Only real side effect I have had is some mild constipation along with mild headaches every now and again. The last two nights also have been a little harder to sleep through the whole night but I did manage.


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