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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:15 am 
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do I think I can kick the habit once I taper off Sub? Yes I know I can do it and have 100% faith I will stay clean. My sources to get Vicodin are gone which helps, and I have a great family for a support system.


I don't mean to be a downer, but do you have any idea how many addicts/recovering addicts say this? It's sort of like a trap to say this. It gives the person a false sense of security because you think you have a hold on the disease and quite frankly, that's just next to impossible. In my opinion, instead of feeling you have control over your addiction, you have to stay vigilante and be prepared to deal with the triggers and cravings that WILL HAPPEN when you're off suboxone and flying without a net.

Have you done any work to address your own unique triggers? It's imperative that a person do that if they want to succeed, otherwise they will fall into the same old active addiction behaviors.

Just think on this and remember that you're saying this all with suboxone (an opiate) on board, eliminating your cravings.

I am not trying to dissuade you from the route you've chosen, not by any means. I just want to encourage you to use all the tools that you can to make sure that your way is successful. That's all. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:24 am 
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Hey ZombieNoMore!

Welcome to the forum! By now I’m sure you’ve realized that this place is populated almost exclusively with people who wish you well, root for you, and are willing to share their experiences in order to help you with your journey to sobriety. This forum was a Godsend to me as I began my induction, and the support was so valuable. I can’t help but say this again to all of you here who gave me hope and advice in my thread: thanks so much from the bottom of my heart.

hatmaker510 in part wrote:
Quote:
do I think I can kick the habit once I taper off Sub? Yes I know I can do it and have 100% faith I will stay clean. My sources to get Vicodin are gone which helps, and I have a great family for a support system.


I don't mean to be a downer, but do you have any idea how many addicts/recovering addicts say this? … It gives the person a false sense of security because you think you have a hold on the disease and quite frankly, that's just next to impossible. …

Have you done any work to address your own unique triggers? It's imperative that a person do that if they want to succeed, otherwise they will fall into the same old active addiction behaviors.

… I am not trying to dissuade you from the route you've chosen, not by any means. I just want to encourage you to use all the tools that you can to make sure that your way is successful. …

sodone in part wrote:
… It's not a one size fits all treatment so no one can really tell you what dose is best for you as it is different for everyone no matter how much you used before. …

First, congrats on separating yourself from the Vicodin sources – a very wise decision – and it’s wonderful to read that you have a strong family support system, as that should be an incredibly powerful asset for you in your recovery.

For emphasis, I’ve bolded some of the text from hatmaker’s post, as I believe these comments and sodone’s input are incredibly important advice. I don’t know your financial situation, but if you can afford to see a psychotherapist, I can’t begin to express the importance and value of meaningful psychotherapy in dealing with your addictive behaviors. So what does “meaningful psychotherapy” mean? To me, it means the following: (1) your therapist inspires your trust, makes you feel safe during your discussions, and with whom you can be 100% honest – you want to feel like your sessions are your absolute sanctuary, and if you don’t have that vibe within the first or second session, do not hesitate to find another therapist; (2) your therapist will challenge you in a non-threatening way about your assumptions, interpretations and feelings about the important aspects of your life, and sometimes take you to uncomfortable places with yourself – if the sessions seem to be nothing but “feel good” experiences, you have the wrong therapist; and (3) your therapist is very qualified and experienced. On this last point, here’s a quote from something I wrote in another thread:

Quote:
One note about psychotherapists that I learned from mine. The majority of therapists only have a masters degree. Think about that for a moment – many of these people have only had two years of formal, dedicated training and education in psychology, and here they are taking patients who trust and rely on them, and they’re tinkering with the insides of their heads. So for those who are considering using a psychotherapist, try to find one with a Ph.D. in psychology who has been very active in continuing education and has many years of experience. I am not saying that all M.A. therapists are hacks, but when you’re entrusting your very being and way of thinking about your life to another person, it would seem logical that you’d want the most experienced and educated person you can find (and afford, as Ph.D.s usually charge a bit more by the hour) to do that “tinkering” with your brain, emotions and very essence.


The advice in sodone’s post really resonates with me. You are unique and your course of treatment should reflect your unique situation and needs. I believe that you will maximize the effectiveness of your treatment by honestly and candidly assessing yourself and your needs in conjunction with your sub physician and a qualified psychotherapist. In my opinion, before a patient starts taking sub, he/she should have a sub treatment plan that is concrete, but not cast in concrete. As you become familiar with this forum, perhaps you will conclude (as I did) that there seem to be two diverging schools of thought on how buprenorphine should be used in addiction treatment. Broadly stated, one view sees addiction as a lifetime disease in which bupe plays a role as a lifetime “maintenance” drug, whereas the other regards bupe as a temporary stepping stone to a truly opiate-free life. I don’t think these views are incompatible, just that their applicability depends on the patient. After extensive consultation with my doctor and psychotherapist, I concluded that I wanted bupe to be a stepping stone for me and would not be used on a long-term basis. But that’s the role my doctors and I see for sub in my life – it may be very different for you. If you want to read more about why I chose that path, see http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6349.

To any new sub user, I would stress that buprenorphine is a hard-core, highly addictive drug. The estimates on the bio-equivalency of bupe and hydrocodone seem to range between 25x to 40x more powerful, so when someone takes 8mg of bupe, that’s like taking between 200mg to 320 mg of hydrocodone, or between 20 to 32 pills of 10mg Norco. That’s a shitload of opiates in the system. Yes, of course, there’s a huge and critical difference between hydrocodone (full agonist) and bupe (a partial agonist), but that doesn’t change the fact that bupe is highly physiologically addictive. I took a grand total of about 80mg of sub over a 20-day period (an average of only 4mg per day) and became physically addicted with that minimal amount taken. If the anecdotes from forum members are any indication, it’s far easier to up the dose as needed than it is to reduce it after the body becomes addicted to a higher dosage.

Best of luck as you tackle the challenges of your addiction and congratulations on making the choice to remove opiates from your life. Sorry for such a long post here, but think of it this way: if you can’t get to sleep one night, just try reading this and you’ll be asleep in no time! :lol:

SI


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:27 pm 
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Thanks Sometimes for the great post.

Well I am now 2 weeks into treatment today with me doing 8 mgs a day (4 in the morning 4 in the evening) so I am going to be working on tapering down. Today I am going down to 7 mg a day for the next week and plan to drop to 6 next Saturday.

My doc really isn't that good and as I mentioned in the thread about Sub Docs I see him doing nothing more than processing patients as quickly as possible to make money. I went in today for a 2nd follow up (or as I call it now a milk my insurance company visit) and here is everything he said to me.

Are you feeling any cravings? Nope
Are you feeling any side effects? Nope
Are you feeling any cravings? Again Nope
Okay see you in a week. WTF??

So anyone else have a doc who was like this?

I am pretty sure I will get way more support from this forum than I will ever from this doc. Also if he expects me to meet him once a week every week I think I am going to look at turning him in to my insurance company or filing some sort of complaint about this practice. I feel like it is BS for him to expect me to come once a week only to get this type of interaction and for him to write a script for another week of subs. I also have to take a piss test each time and again came up clean on it since I am focused on my goal.


I do have a few questions. When mentioning have I done anything to address my own unique triggers in order to succeed I guess I am kind of dumb but I don't understand the question? Are we talking about triggers as to why I started doing this in the first place?

I have never had an addictive personality until my current run in with Vicodins.

Also 8 mgs of Subs are equal to roughly 200 to 320 mg of Vicodin? If this is true then I just went from a habit that I managed to get down to 50 to 60 mg of Vicodin a day on my own to a habit 5X worse. :-/


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:57 pm 
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Actually need to correct that last post. Today I am dropping myself down to 6 mg (3mg in the morning 3 mg in the evening). I plan to go down next week to either 5 mg or 4 mg depending on how I feel with this drop.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:36 pm 
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Been a while since I updated. Things are going great and I seem to be over any constipation and a headache every now and again. Been on 6 mg since the last post and Monday I am taking the next drop down to 5 mg for at least a week and then will look at another drop.

My doc gave me 2 weeks worth of Suboxone this time (going out of town for a little so he covered me for a longer period of time than the week at a pop that he seems to prefer) and I find out that the CVS that I have been going to has some program going on that as long as the script is for 14 or more of the films my $30 copay is covered. Nice to find this out after 3 weeks of paying $30 a pop for a weeks worth at a time.

Gonna have to make sure the doc continues to give me 2 or more weeks worth at a time or I will have to bring up the fact that I will be looking to take my business to a different doc.


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