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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:22 am 
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As most of you know, doctors have no common knowledge so I'm resorting to the many professionals on this forum. I started abusing oxys a year ago, like everybody else I started slow. One or two 20 mg pills a day for the extra burst of energy. Gradually two turned into 10 a day just to feel "normal". Now three months ago I began snorting ...... as the oxys became harder to get. I have never IV'ed or smoked, always have snorted. Now to get down to the wire. I'm familiar with subs, I've successfully detoxed once before and jumped off subs with little to no problem. Then one night, stupidly i had a few family problems and ended up using again.. Basically refueling the monster I had once calmed down. Now to today, I have an extremely successful career, a wonderful family and everything in my life has pieced itself together except for this dirty habit. I work full time, taking time off is out of the question right now. I do have a script for subs, as I am on a program. I recently tried to induce. Starting my first sub, 36 hours after last use. When I attempted to induce I did not follow the Drs suggestion of simply taking 8mg 24 hrs after last use. I started with mg, and waited 90 minutes. With little to no relief I got up to 6mg after about 5 1/2 hours. Still no relief, then I took the last mg totally 8mg in about 7 hours. This last 2 mg kicked me into P/W that lasted right around 3 hours. Once that faded I assumed I was ok and actually was able to fall asleep. The next morning I woke, 12 hrs since last sub dose. I took 4mg and again, back into P/W. This time I found no relief and stupidly went back and bought a back from my dealer. The ........ Instantly helped, I didn't get high but I felt completely normal. From there I continued doing ...... and here were are today. I am ready to re-induce but scared. I can't be sick at work due to high physical demand and nobody to assist in my duties. So what I'm curious of, if I take a sub and kick myself into P/W and use .... To reverse the symptoms of wd, can I then wait until I'm back to the old fashioned opiate wd to re dose on suboxone. Not sure if what I'm saying makes sense, I just can't afford to wait 48 hours and possibly end up just going into pw anyway. To me it appears my metabolism is extremely slow if the ...... Is still in my system. I know my idea is stupid, to use ........ To ease the transition to inducing. If anybody has any advise as to what I can do it would be greatly appreciated. I'm open to any suggestions and willing to try anything at this point. I'm so fed up with feeding this monster, and want to succeed at using the subs. I just can't get my body comfortable on them. Thanks everybody!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:57 am 
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Hello Mike, welcome to the forum. The short answer Mike is yes, you need to start over now that you ve used again. You understand that by useing full opiates again your back to ground zero. Ok, whats done is done and i get it, you dont want to be sick And you have a life to live and work. You didnt really say what how much you have been useing lately but in my opinon ya gota go back and get yourself into at least Mod WD . The worse the WD the better the Sub can work. It is Tuesday and im guessing you need to work all week? But 30 to 36 hours may be needed to get started again. You do still have some sub left in your system. This could help speed aloug the process. May I suggest going over to DR Junigs Talkzone and do a search on Induction there. You seemed to have done everything correctly from what you have posted here. At 6mgs Id think you d have been on your way. Im sorry i dont have better answers for you at this time. The other thing about PWs is once they start the best thing to do is to keep taking yoour sub. Suboxone will in time win out, it just may take more time than you like...and abit painful. razor...


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:10 pm 
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Thanks for the response so quickly, its nice to have people to somewhat "vent" to. Daily use was anywhere between .5 to a gram snorted. And as i said, i had originally waited more than 40 hours before inducing the first day. The initial dosing of subs had almost no effect until i had taken the last 2 mg which sent me into P/W. Either way it seems i still stand a chance of it happening again, so this time i probably wont wait as long. Ill allow myself to get to a 26, then re-induce but stopping at 2-4 MG, at least for that time being. And as for the other method for inducing I mentioned, I've read stories where the person purposely put them selves into P/W (using then immediately using suboxone, then used just enough .......to ease the pain and fill the un-blocked receptors. Then began re-dosing subs the following morning since the initial dose of suboxone is still there on many of the receptors. That was going to be my next plan, but seems a tad risky. I understand the concept what he did & tried, technically it does make sense. But i will give the waiting game another shot. And you are right, I do have to work the rest of the week. In my line of work, the hours can get crazy, basically can't leave until all my paperwork / reporting is complete. So as hard as it is, i have no choice but to continue showing up and working through the sickness,


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:17 pm 
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Interesting post MIke. I'm having much the same trouble as you inducing. I've only tried one time and that was a couple of weeks ago. I've been on 10mg of methadone and want to switch to sub. Got 2mg sub films from my doc and went home to do it on my own. He wasn't any help when it came to suggesting how I make the transition so for me it's been experimental. I have however used this forum to glean all and any info. I've needed and it has been a life saver.

I know from years of experience that methadone takes days to leave my system. I have a slow metabolism so that's worse. I took my last 10mg methadone and then waited 36 hours until I was feeling significant withdrawls, 18 on the cows chart to be exact. Apparently that's not nearly enough because I took the first 2 mg film and it sent me into horrible pw's. I waited an hour or so and took 2 more films because I thought I just wasn't getting enough sub. into my system. the pw's only got worse. Over a 24 hour period all night and into the next day I was extremely sick and being 60 with high blood pressure that was dangerous spiking to 911 levels I gave up. I had saved a couple of 10mg methadone pills, some xanax, and a tramadol or two in case it didn't work and I took them all. Thankfully I had them. Within 30 minutes I was feeling total relief.

Needless to say your experience was much like mine. It's Also mIke, trying to do it on a time schedule as short as yours with work and all sounds too stressful and almost self defeating. Power to you if you can make it happen in that short of time but it's not a good plan. If I were you I'd have to take some personal days or vacation time because this sort of transition is a weekend process. That's just IMHO.

I took a couple weeks off and now I am in the process of trying again. Yesterday was my last dose of 10mg methadone. One thing my doctor gave me that works amazing for the hot and cold chills is clonodine. Not clonopin. It's BP medicine and everytime my temp spikes and those horrible chills come on I want to die but clonodine controls them and I had been hearing about it first on this forum so yeah, get some of that if you can. Also, you have to wait until your in really serious WD's before you can take sub. That's the hardest part. Also, my doc replaced the film with just plain subutex or sobox because I could not handle the naloxone. We'll see if that works. I'm going to take my first subutex in about 24 more hours and hope it works this time....good luck with your efforts and keep us posted. this is a hard trasition to make but I'm hoping it's worth it. megster


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:30 pm 
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Oh believe me I know how long you gotta wait. The first time I tried I was well past 40 hours before even thinking about touching a sub. But still had the P/W. Appears no matter what, you risk it anyway no matter how careful you are. Well I'm gonna continue waiting it out and possibly re-induce tomorrow morning. We shall see what happens. Good luck to you as well, methadone is a whole other monster.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:55 pm 
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Damn, now i'm really scared. I'm mean you waited a very long time to induce as far as I'm concerned. 36 to 40 hours should be enough off of oxy's since they are short acting opiates. I've done oxy's plenty and when you have a good habit you'll be in full blown misery WD's within 4 to 8 hours of the last pill. At least I was. They don't last long and the wd's a severe but they also are only 2 or 3 days long before you come up for air and can walk or eat at the very least. It depends on how heavy your intake is of course but I know the short acting opiates. I've been addicted to them on and off for years. The withdrawls are extremely rough but over quickly as in three days. I'm comparing them to methadone and sub which are long acting and the WD's are not as extreme when they come on but they last much longer. As in weeks and months depending on level of addiction.

What I don't get about your report is that you're on short acting opiates so after 36 or 40 hours the subox should feel more like a relief of misery than sending you into furthor WD's. If that's the case with you I'm worried becauase I'm doing the same as you only off methadone and if I have to wait 2 or 3 days in wd's from methadone and then when I take my subutex it sends me into worse misery I don't know if I can survive it. I have HB pressure and can't put my body through all this crazy shit. I really don't understand suboxone. With methadone if you're in any kind of withdrawls, from any kind of opiate, you take a dose of methadone you're going to be relieved. Period!! Why is it that suboxone can't work the same way? I"m talking about subox without nalox in it? I'm so confused.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:28 pm 
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Megster is because methadone is a full agonist and buprenorphine is a partial. And methadone I feel stays in your system much longer than they say, once suboxone starting working for me, I felt normal. Then in another three months I felt even more normal. These stages went on for nearly a year until I fully stabilized then I could start to taper with no issues. Methadone is in a class all by itself.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:56 pm 
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Thanks Pugmommy, I appreciate the input. I know from years of experience with methadone how long it stays in the system. It's downright scary. Lets see, it's been 36 hours since I last dosed and other than being weak I'm fine so yeah, it's still holding me and I was only on 10mg. We'll see how I feel tomorrow or later tonight.

I've got my subs all ready to go but I'm not touching them until it's been a few days. As low as I might feel coming off the methadone nothing compares to PW's and I want to avoid them like the plague. The only way to do that is to make sure nothing is left in my system as far as I"m concerned. It's funny because if I can hold off long enough to get 3 or 5 days without methadone I keep thinking I should just keep going and not look back. Get past it all. Kick the damn meds to the curb.

Alas, then reality hits me. Even if I did keep going and get clean again like every time before this, I'll relapse and might not survive it. So yeah, it's off the methadone and onto the suboxone and it's probably for life but I'm just gonna take it one day at a time.

Thanks for the input. I'll keep you posted....ever stalwart........megster


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:55 pm 
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....ever stalwart........
Megster, are you clan Mackey?
I'm clan Macleod Hold Fast


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:45 pm 
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LOL. Good one Docm2. you're funny.

No. No clan Mackey.

I got that one from the 2nd making of True Grit by the Cohen Brothers if you really want to know.

One of the heroic characters used that line and it stuck with me.


Hold fast Macleod! Damn right!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:56 am 
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I'm wondering if you were really in PWs or if you hadn't taken enough bupe. Our resident doctor suggests powering through and continuing to add bupe until you're feeling better. I waited over 48 hours before I was inducted. Maybe schedule an entire weekend of withdrawing and start dosing Monday morning?

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