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 Post subject: Induced
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:43 pm 
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Hello everyone. First I want to thank you all for your advice and wonderful show of support.

I induced at about 7 hours after last dose of Oxycodone. Just couldn't take the WDs to the point they were getting then. Anyway, I didn't go into the dreaded precipitated withdrawals that you know had my mind all kinds of squashed up and afraid. I have been hesitant for the last few hours to come on here because I don't have a cheery "Oh man I feel so GREAT and NORMAL" like I've seen from others. Mind you, obviously I'm sitting here typing this, I AM doing better. Believe me, I would be going into heavy moderate withdrawal normally at this point and barely able to stand up to get to the bathroom (and even that would become questionable not too long from that point).

So I induced at 10:30 a.m. with 8mg film. I think I mentioned that I was sure my mind would play with me on this, and I thought that I had screwed it up somehow. It just didn't take that long for the strip to dissolve - like MAYBE 10 minutes. Well, I read in several places that if precipitated withdrawals were going to happen, they would happen VERY quickly, within 15 minutes at the most of taking the strip. So you can imagine the pacing I did during that time. I had convinced myself that Lucifer's arms would rise shortly from the bowels of hell itself to take me on a really nasty ride. Thank goodness that didn't happen, because I'm telling you (and I'm not "threatening" anything, just saying it like it is and being "real") I would absolutely have said, "Thanks, it was a good run, good times, sayonara baby."

Well, slowly over the course of the next hour, my body began to settle down noticeably. My WDs were not completely gone or anything along those lines, but it became more bearable. It got a little better, but the skin crawling feeling (especially legs) just would NOT go away, and the temp fluctuations were insane. After two hours, they weren't getting any better. So I called the PM doctor that me and my sister were connected to yesterday through another doctor friend of hers, and he said he would have a patient take half of another - 4mg - and then he said even another 4mg a couple hours after that (for a total of 16mg in 6 hours) would be fine. Then he said take the third 8mg at night. I'm prescribed 24mg per day (8mg 3x per day). He said obviously (and he did say I need to defer to my actual PM doc on this) I don't want to stay on 24mg, but he said it is not uncommon at all for him to need to induce patients even up to 32mg that first day but then very quickly drops it the next few days to comfort point. So I did the next two 4mg at 12:00 and 2:00.

The legs are still just all kinds of creepy crawly and the temp fluctuations are still going, but I will also say that they seem to VERY slowly be getting better. Like things will calm down a bit, pick up, calm down, pick up, calm down, etc.

Please understand that I am NOT complaining or whining here, just trying to be honest with how it's going. Believe me, I remind myself exactly how I would be feeling right now without it. There's just no comparison, and I don't need to explain that. You all should know the difference all too well between "my god please have mercy and take me now" and "okay this sucks but I can deal." Obviously at this point I have no choice but to stay with it anyway. I made sure of that just before I induced. I flushed all remaining Oxycodone pills down the toilet just in case my head decided it was gonna take me on tempting journey to go back to "old faithful," which would have done ZERO good if I'm right even only just after inducing because the buprenorphine is the bully on the receptor block and will NOT lose.

That PM doc - who by the way is going to recheck his patient load Monday and see if he does have a spot, which is mine if he does - told me that it is also often the case that the body just has to adapt to the absence of what it has been given for so long and this new thing it's getting now. He said sure, we know a lot of the science, we know this helps, etc., but the truth is the body holds all kinds of secrets in terms of how it processes things, especially in the brain. It remains a frontier in many, MANY ways (this should be obvious, otherwise cancer and everything else would be cured now). So I'm hoping that this jittery leg and temp fluctuation thing will gradually dissipate for me. But you know, I've lived in so much pain for so long, that it's just not comparable to and more easily handled.

And there's the rub (isn't there always one?) So far, it has done nothing at all for the pain. Mind you, right now it's at a tolerable level, but there are many times that it isn't. I don't know what I'm going to do. If the Suboxone isn't even addressing it in a minor stage then that says something. And I know what's coming. It's the whole reason I started all this to begin with years ago. The back and neck will lock up and allow very limited movement and/or my legs will feel like they're just exploding internally. Actually, usually the legs is what causes the most trouble to be honest. Well, I now no longer have the ability to address those periods of pain with opiate pain medication and will have to simply ride them out as best I can.

So here's the end game: It has helped the withdrawals SIGNIFICANTLY though not entirely (which may just take another day or two to "stabilize") and I'm going to have to prepare myself to do whatever I can to deal with and address the pain. Now, let me tell you something absolutely crazy. You'll think I'm nuts, and trust me I'm not exaggerating that pain. In fact, I don't think I did it justice. But when it's that severe it's only a day or two and then back to just to the constant mild-moderate drumbeat that I can tolerate and deal with.

So what's crazy?

GOOD!!!! I know, stupid, and I understand if you think that. Hell, half of me does too. But the bigger half is just happy to finally be breaking the bonds that narcotic pain medication have had me in for so damn long. They have imprisoned my character, my soul. They have been the source of so much sorrow as a double-edged sword between living largely pain-free but losing a part of myself somewhere in the process. The current politically restrictive environment is only getting worse as doctors and pharmacists are placed in constant unreasonable fear for the licenses and even their freedom, and as a result chronic pain patients are treated like the plague by both. Well, no more.

I moved over for a long time and let doctors and opiates take the wheel, and I allowed them to drive me into a cul-de-sac of misery that gets closed off with construction barricades and simply becomes a circle unto itself with not beginning and end. Now it's MY turn to drive, and those barricades are coming down baby. Like it or not, wood and blinking lights are hitting the ground and I'm out!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:25 pm 
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Glad to hear that your induction went well! I think the reason why it's taking longer for you to feel 100% is that you weren't in severe withdrawal. The worse you feel, the better sub works. That's awesome you didn't have to wait that long though. I really was worried for you cuz my doctor was so adament about waiting at least 24 hours. So I'm relieved to hear that you're ok. :-) It takes at least a few days for your body to get used to the sub. It didn't help much with my pain either for the first few days. Then one day I just kinda noticed, wow, my back doesn't hurt. Only problem is that sub's pain killing abilities only last about 6 hours. That's why people with pain take 3 or 4 doses a day. And it's not instant relief either, like oxy was. I usually take my last dose of the day around 4 p.m. I take 4mg. When I get up for work at 2 a.m. I'm really hurting. But I take my sub, let it melt as I get ready for work, and by the time I'm ready to leave the pain is gone. Not too bad :-) I really hope that it will help your pain once your body adjusts. Hopefully you're able to just take it easy and relax for the next couple days, til you get used to it. Anyway, I'm so happy to hear that you're doing good. Sorry for the bad advice I gave you. I really was trying to be helpful, not put you through unneccesary torture. I only know for sure what worked for me. And now I know that I went through unneccesary torture! Glad you didn't have to. I hope that you continue to feel better and better!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:26 pm 
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So Snap,

I admit that I only read down to the not feeling cheery and I hope you don't feel like I'm getting on your case when I say, "Duh." The longer you wait, the better you feel when you go on the sub. My own sub doctor had me wait 48 hours. 48!!! I had to wait until I was in his office to induce. And after induction I felt fantastic!!! But I waited 48 hours!!! Did I need to wait 48 hours? No. I was on percocet, nothing long acting. What my doctor wanted me to feel was the complete transformation and mental lift of being able to do a 180 on how I was feeling. Psychologically, it felt wonderful. Physically I felt wonderful. But I paid the piper with 48 somewhat miserable hours. The only difference between us, Snap, is that you're paying the piper before and after induction because you only waited 7 hours.

I'm glad you're not whining about suboxone, because it's not the fault of suboxone that you induced before 10 - 12 hours after your last dose.

With all of that being said, I want to say, "Hang in there!" You will start feeling better incrementally until you're a regular ray of sunshine like me! (That last part was sarcasm.) I want suboxone to work for you and you to be feeling so much better!! After I induced I noticed that within 24 hours I wasn't obsessing over pills anymore. I so want that for you!

You keep on letting us know how you're feeling. I will be reading every post of yours and I'm pulling for you to feel like your addiction is under control.

Amy

P.S. Please know that I'm not trying to make you feel bad. My concern is that another newbee would read your thread and think that your experience of not feeling so great is what they have to look forward to. They need to know that the longer you wait, the better you will feel at induction. Also, I'm not suggesting that everyone wait for 48 hours. I just wanted to illustrate the difference between waiting a short amount of time and waiting a longer amount of time.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:41 pm 
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Kitty, you gave NO bad advice at all. No one did. People only have what they KNOW from their own experience, what they've seen, and what they've heard. You can only say what you know and what you hear from those sources, and that's the best you can do. Your PM was actually so beneficial to me and I'm appreciative.

Amy, I don't at all feel like you're "case-jumping" me. You concern is well-founded that others may read my experience and draw assumptions from it. But you know, in the end, there are plenty of posts with advice from one end to the other and in the end we can only finally come to what we feel is the best conclusion. I actually suspect you may be right that had I waited longer the difference would have been much more noticeable, which only stands to logic. The worse you feel, the more significant the relief will be. "DUH" back at you! :) I will say that I don't regret doing it as I have, though for anyone reading this, know this: Had I gone into precipitated withdrawals, I can assure you I'd be singing a different song right now and saying I should have waited. In the end, we're all different. You'll KNOW when you're in WDs, and only YOU will be able to decide (if not being induced in an office but at home) if you're willing to take the chance that I did. It was certainly a dice roll. But hey, I'm weak I guess, what can I say!

Taking it that soon quite likely is why it's taking a bit to really kick in like it should, but I see that as a good trade for ME. I see it as rolling the dice (clearly a gamble) and continuing to suffer a lot less for a shorter period than if I had stuck it out longer. Notice THAT is a good trade, but also notice that it is a GAMBLE. I have to admit that. If I had gone into PWs, it clearly would have been my own fault, definitely not Suboxone's or anyone on here. MINE.

Hanging in there is getting even easier Amy. I'm noticing with each passing hour that I'm closer and closer and ever closer to feeling back to normal again as the leg and temp issues are continuing to dissipate, and I mean the "normal" I haven't felt in a very long time. It's very strange. Maybe I'll attempt to put together something with big and pretty words to post here to describe it at some point.

Side question of curiosity: When you all withdrew, did you notice that your senses seem to SERIOUSLY heighten during that time? I've gone through WDs before, and it happens each time. Like you're smelling and tasting things completely differently (though I must say nicely at least that part of WD - like a new world going on there for a bit).


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:10 pm 
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snap-im so glad that your induction went well! Yes its true the more you suffer the better the relief will feel. It does take a little while to feel normal as your receptors are used to being very stimulated and on sub they are only partialy stimulated.

Like kitty said the sub works best for pain when taken more frequently but in smaller doses. Have you tried over methods for treating your pain?
Like maybe aquatic therapy, massage, pt or other natural remedies, its worth a shot.

the question you asked about the heightened senses during wd....i have wondered that myself, and akthough im not a scientist or anything (obviously lol) i suspect its due to the brain releasing an excess of norpinephrin aka addrenalin during opiate wd, and i would think having that extra addrenalin would make the senses more awake.

well im out, i hope you continue to get relief as your body adjusts to suboxone!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:37 pm 
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I'm so glad that you didn't take offense at what I wrote and I agree with you that we're all different and therefore our experiences are going to be different. I'm really glad that you're starting to feel better as the day wears on. I hope you can get an awesome night's sleep tonight!

I don't remember my senses being particularly heightened while I was withdrawing, but I was also taking xanax as a comfort med at the time. Xanax just makes me super sleepy!

Let us know how you're feeling tomorrow. Even when I'm being a bit wenchy, I still care about how you're doing! :)

Amy

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:12 pm 
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Yea for you! I am glad you did it! Everyone else made such great points, so I won't be a broken record, but I do want to give you a heads up on a couple of things that you may or may not experience. I am only mentioning them bc I do not want you to mistake these things for wd's or for sub not doing its job: the first thing is sweating. Some of us who use sub do have a mild to moderate problem with sweating. I'm not talking about the miserable temperature fluctuations and such that happen during wd's, I am more saying that when I go to clean my house, where before I would not really sweat, I now break a sweat quite a bit easier. And once it starts it pretty much drenches me. I did not notice this until after I was taking sub for a few weeks. I do not ever just break out in a random sweat though. It is always while being physically active. I know this does not happen with everyone, but it does for me and a few others I know, so don't be surprised and don't mistake it for wd's if you happen to experience this. The other thing is often when I wake up I feel a little sore or like my joints are stiff. But, once I hop out of bed and get moving, it totally disappears. I mention this bc you are at least partially taking the sub for pain and I would hate for you to wake up feeling 80 yrs old one day and just decide to stay in bed. For me (and at least one other sub patient on here) it only lasts minutes.
I am not trying to give you a bunch of bad news now that you have induced, but just wanted to give you a fair heads up. In all honesty, these things really aren't even that bad and they certainly would NOT deter me from Suboxone treatment.
I am very happy for you that you have taken this step, and I hope you begin to feel the full benefits of the medication sooner rather than later :)

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:59 am 
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AmyWench (You opened the door honey, I'm just peeking in), I think you're right. Actually, I KNOW you're right as it stands to reason - every person is different and will respond in different ways to the medication. Some who start as early as I did are probably in for one horrid journey, others will likely respond as I have, and others may be jumping for joy out of the gate. Heck, there are even going to be those few who this just doesn't help at all, though I really believe that would be a purely psychological battle because science IS still what it is and, in the absence of PWs, this WILL subside physical withdrawals. It's just a fact - opiate receptors occupied, withdrawals decrease. It's just a matter of HOW and WHEN they're occupied that determines the experience and length. Unless you're an alien, that's just the way it is. Your significant chemistry determines that "how" and "when" is all.

OtherAmy (how confusing), thank you and I will keep that in mind. I have never really sweat a whole lot, inside anyway. Mind you, I'm in southern Texas (Houston), so when I'm outside (especially active outside) during the summer, well, ya just ain't right if ya ain't sweatin'. I am WELL familiar with my specific pain issues as well and can distinguish between that versus other aches/pains. I've already had to do this. And most mornings, even when was on Oxycodone, I do get moving VERY slowly, so that's just a fact of life for me. BUT, I will certainly keep in mind to continue differentiating the two so that I don't allow what you're referring to make me take longer than usual. You have a really good point there, and I could see many doing that.

I am continuing to feel better hour by hour (I can't really say day by day yet - this is only the second after all). Oddly enough AmyWench (okay that's how I'm keeping you two separated - AmyWench and OtherAmy), I laid down last night (well I sleep in a recliner because my back does NOT allow me to lay prone for very long, no matter the mattress) and was just sure I wasn't going to be able to get to sleep. I was having an antsy (not withdrawal) feeling and just generally "ugh" from the whole process, but I'll darned if I didn't wake up SEVEN hours later!! I was shocked, truly. Pleased mind you, but shocked.

Now, I took the whole 24mg yesterday (over time, not at once obviously) that I am prescribed and will likely today and tomorrow as well - actually probably through Tuesday when I go back to the doctor. But my intent is to wean off of this as well as quickly as possible to get a real handle on where the pain is with nothing at all controlling or that we think may be controlling it. Yes, it will be a world of hurt (pain, not withdrawal), but it truly is the ONLY way to know the answer to that. Then we'll see what we need to do. For now though, I'm not really itching to get started on that. I suspect I need to take a week to completely induce and let things settle out on that end before getting to work on that.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:03 pm 
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Oh, and the temp fluctuations I can tell the difference between that and of course regular activity. But holy cow, not long after I took the Suboxone this morning, I had an ENORMOUS "hot flash" - literally locked my door, stripped and popped a fan in front me (and the AC had it nice and cold already). I mean it was nearly humorous and I was breaking out in beads man!

I told my sister about this, and oddly enough she said, "Oh I don't even want to hear you **tching about hot flashes.

I guess I can't argue with that huh?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:36 pm 
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AmyWench...I like it!! I'm so glad you came up with an appropriate moniker for me! Makes me feel special! :D

I'm glad you are feeling more improvement as time goes on. I hope everything continues to trend that way!

Amy

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