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 Post subject: Hubby's turn
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:54 pm 
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So, I am well over a week and have found my own transition to be going very well. I feel like a new person, the cloud that hung over me has been lifted and I truly feel as if everything is going to a new "normal", free of OxyContin and all the crap that goes along with it.

So, it's hubby's turn....his last dose will be Friday noon and then the long wait for induction.

His usage is about 200mg of OxyContin 80's and 20's & Oxycodone 10's and 30's. He chews the OxyContin and snorts the oxycodone.

Question 1 - given his usage and manner in which he uses, will he need to wait longer than say 24 hours (I will use the cows sheet)

Question 2 - COWS sheet is kind of hard to really get to even 15 coming off of what he is doing -- how closely should that be followed? It's almost as if there is no diarrhea, it was hard to make progress. Pupil size, irritability, shakiness, rapid pulse -- didn't happen to me, I felt those symptoms were more for someone coming off of heroin. Thoughts ??

Question 3 - He was prescribed two 8/2 suboxone pills per day -- should he do 8mgs at once or 4/6 then more in 3o min if needed?

Question 4 - How can we know if his BP is too high to take the sub or might that not matter no matter if it's sub or oxy?

So, thanks to all for helping me last week and any advise , help or suggestions most appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: Hubby's turn
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:34 am 
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Hello Lougone,
Just as with you before, he must be in moderate to severe wd to be safe. The sicker the better the med will work . All about the tolerance, and it seems to me his is much higher than yours was.

The best thing he can do right now is to taper back Now. Get his tolerance down a day or two before you begin this. It ll help.
I don't know if the COWS is a perfect way to do induction, but a guide as such. Use it to help measure .

As far as his BP, that isnt something to worry about at induction. Buprenorphine is not going to raise his bp. Being in wd will for a time, but sub will not.

Wait 24 to 30 hours and start at 4mgs if in severe wd. He ll be fine, just like you.

Really glad to read your doing well and feeling good. The new Normal", can't tell ya how many times if read that here at the forum over the years. . Its the truth for so many.

Keep us posted Lougone, and see if he ll cut his doses of oxy today snd tomarrow. .it ll help..

Razor


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 Post subject: Re: Hubby's turn
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:42 pm 
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razor55 wrote:
Hello Lougone,
Just as with you before, he must be in moderate to severe wd to be safe. The sicker the better the med will work . All about the tolerance, and it seems to me his is much higher than yours was.

The best thing he can do right now is to taper back Now. Get his tolerance down a day or two before you begin this. It ll help.
I don't know if the COWS is a perfect way to do induction, but a guide as such. Use it to help measure .

As far as his BP, that isnt something to worry about at induction. Buprenorphine is not going to raise his bp. Being in wd will for a time, but sub will not.

Wait 24 to 30 hours and start at 4mgs if in severe wd. He ll be fine, just like you.

Really glad to read your doing well and feeling good. The new Normal", can't tell ya how many times if read that here at the forum over the years. . Its the truth for so many.

Keep us posted Lougone, and see if he ll cut his doses of oxy today snd tomarrow. .it ll help..

Razor


Yes, his use much higher than mine.....

Seems he is going out guns blazing with a grand finale attitude, trying to use up his entire stash today and finally tomorrow.

I hope that doesn't bite him in the butt as he transitions.

He is smart enough to know PW's must be avoided, so, whatever he ends up doing, he will be at least 24-28 hours out from his last dose and be feeling WIthdrawals for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Hubby's turn
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:31 pm 
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One last blast huh, well, I was afraid of that..
I know you can't tell him, but he is only making it harder on himself . This is the time to do as little as possible making the induction faster and less painful.
Well, your stable now and feeling well, at least he can see that...

My induction was very easy. I went from 150/200mgs to 50mgs or less the final few days. Popped in 4mgs and went tto bed . Woke up feeling great and have never looked back..

Keep us posted


Razor


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 Post subject: Re: Hubby's turn
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:50 pm 
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Hey Longgone glad to hear that ur doing well and also to hear ur hubby is following in ur footsteps too! That's great news.

I waited for 32hrs but not all doctors require their patients to wait that long. My doctor scored me on the Cows sheet but that was after I'd been waiting for 32hrs so I was ready......majorly ready. I was mostly snorting oxycodone 30's before my induction week but I definitely had a tolerance to chewing the oxycotin 80's & 40's too. I'm sure his tolerance is higher than urs was but the only difference is he probably needs to wait a little longer than u did...but I can't be sure how long u waited, I can't remember. If I were him, I'd try for 32 but I wouldn't do it before 24hrs at least.

Some ppl do their induction process different. I did mine inside the office under the supervision of the nurse. She started me off on 2mg every 30min until I totalled 8mg. The next day I started my prescribed dose of 16mg a day which worked fine for me so I think that would also work fine for ur hubby. I still have no idea why my Dr had me take a total of 8mg the first day then start me out on 16mg the following day. Some doctors do things their own way I guess, it all worked out though and after I had that 8mg the day of induction, I felt great.

Like razor said, suboxone doesn't raise ur bp that I know of either so I wouldn't worry about that too much.

I hope everything goes well and hopefully ur hubby will see what u see in this medication. It's amazing to finally be free of cravings, I couldn't believe it. But here I am yrs later and still so very grateful!! Good luck :)

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 Post subject: Re: Hubby's turn
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:27 pm 
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jennjenn wrote:
Hey Longgone glad to hear that ur doing well and also to hear ur hubby is following in ur footsteps too! That's great news.

I waited for 32hrs but not all doctors require their patients to wait that long. My doctor scored me on the Cows sheet but that was after I'd been waiting for 32hrs so I was ready......majorly ready. I was mostly snorting oxycodone 30's before my induction week but I definitely had a tolerance to chewing the oxycotin 80's & 40's too. I'm sure his tolerance is higher than urs was but the only difference is he probably needs to wait a little longer than u did...but I can't be sure how long u waited, I can't remember. If I were him, I'd try for 32 but I wouldn't do it before 24hrs at least.

Some ppl do their induction process different. I did mine inside the office under the supervision of the nurse. She started me off on 2mg every 30min until I totalled 8mg. The next day I started my prescribed dose of 16mg a day which worked fine for me so I think that would also work fine for ur hubby. I still have no idea why my Dr had me take a total of 8mg the first day then start me out on 16mg the following day. Some doctors do things their own way I guess, it all worked out though and after I had that 8mg the day of induction, I felt great.

Like razor said, suboxone doesn't raise ur bp that I know of either so I wouldn't worry about that too much.

I hope everything goes well and hopefully ur hubby will see what u see in this medication. It's amazing to finally be free of cravings, I couldn't believe it. But here I am yrs later and still so very grateful!! Good luck :)


I hear you there....he just loves snorting his 30's, blue bombers as he called them. He has been paying $50 each, so you can imagine the hole in our budget. I always knew when he was doing way too much, as he would be wheezing at night and then the icky flem residue would get caught in his throat in the AM, very nasty stuff, I can only imagine the lung damage - thank god we both quit cigarettes 20 years ago or we would be even worse off.

He is committed to the quit though, thankfully! We look forward to this all being in the rear view mirror after this weekend. We have a week off of work next week, so a lot of healing will take place and we will get to a very good place, I just know it. I led the way this time, which is out of character for me, but he is quite glad I did even though he is pretty scared right now.

Will let you know how long he waits and how it goes, so look forward to updates Saturday AM.

In the meantime, I will be checking in here - any further help, suggestions are most appreciated. You all are very kind here and I hope to be able to give back, down the road!!


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 Post subject: Re: Hubby's turn
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:21 pm 
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Hey LG,

I've followed your prior thread and now this thread w interest. Its too hard or impossible when only one gets clean and the other does not. So glad your plan was for both to get on bup and in recovery together! Besides waiting 24+ hrs, my 2 cents for hubby is to wait for large or better yet, huge pupils. P

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 Post subject: Re: Hubby's turn
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:31 pm 
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Hubby pulled a fast one and is hanging around one more day....so, his last dose, instead of having been today, will now be tomorrow AM - that means he will induct Sun AM and not tomorrow AM.

He is cute...said he had issues following a knee injection (he does get one every 2-3 months) and just could not go through with it today.

Yup, real cute guy, fine, you get your 24 hour reprieve and then that's it -- last dose tomorrow AM or else he will be a most unhappy person. I will reign down such terror upon him the likes of which I would not even want to describe for fear of scaring people!!

I'm certain he will, ( as I wrote he damn well better). I am a tad concerned he seemingly isn't as committed to the quit as I am, but, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Talk to y'all Sunday.


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 Post subject: Re: Hubby's turn
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 1:48 pm 
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Hopefully this does work out tomarrow. I was a bit concerned yday also. Sometimes, well many times one is ready to commit the other not so much.
If he gives Buprenorphine a real chance he can do well. Its getting over the top and off to induction that people can have issues with.
As loug as your commitment to recovery stays stroug you ll be fine. We are all rooting for the both of you. Good luck


Razor.


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 Post subject: Re: Hubby's turn
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 1:59 pm 
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Hey LG,

Sending you and hubby positive thoughts that today is his last opiate day and tomorrow he starts a new and good life on bup! Idk, but reminds me of folks posting on other threads that stopping their doc can be like saying goodbye to an old friend and in some way, they feel a loss w a hesitancy to give it up. And once on bup are so grateful they did... as you already well know. I hope you are very proud of yourself for your successful accomplishment to leave active addiction!! And proud that you took the lead to get you and soon hubby into a new healthy life. Keep checking in! P

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 Post subject: Re: Hubby's turn
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:12 pm 
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Ok longgone I'm curious! How's hubby, it's Sunday three o'clock?

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 Post subject: Re: Hubby's turn
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:29 pm 
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pugmommy wrote:
Ok longgone I'm curious! How's hubby, it's Sunday three o'clock?


Well he made it 28 hours and then took 4mg at 230 today, followed by 2 more at 5 and two more at 8.

He is not feeling well at all, while his we's were not too bad, he now has stomach pains (had had the runs) along with backache that won't quit and he really looks miserable.

I know it can take a couple of days.....

Any thoughts??


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 Post subject: Re: Hubby's turn
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:11 am 
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Wow - rough nite, tossed and turned all night with very little sleep. Still has the blahs and diareah continues.

I know for,a fact he went 28 hours in to WD's, could he still possible be having PW?


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 Post subject: Re: Hubby's turn
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:21 am 
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At this point the important thing now is to keep up the dosing of Sub. As you know Lougone he is very close to feeling better, mlst likely today if a dose is taken.
Just my opinion, but he s there.!!! PWs?, well not sure about that, but more Buprenorphine will win the battle at tbe reseptors level.

Razor


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 Post subject: Re: Hubby's turn
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:43 pm 
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Hi longgone, I'm glad he's pushing through, my feelings are that he had a high tolerance I think i remember you saying he was going out with a bang. It's been my experience that the transition is more difficult the higher the tolerance due to buprenorphine being a partial agonist, too many receptors to fill. A lot of doctors recommend tapering first for a smoother transition, but he will feel better as time goes on and it is so worth it although it may take a couple of days. Tell him we're all rooting for him! Spell check on that lol

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 Post subject: Re: Hubby's turn
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:48 pm 
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pugmommy wrote:
Hi longgone, I'm glad he's pushing through, my feelings are that he had a high tolerance I think i remember you saying he was going out with a bang. It's been my experience that the transition is more difficult the higher the tolerance due to buprenorphine being a partial agonist, too many receptors to fill. A lot of doctors recommend tapering first for a smoother transition, but he will feel better as time goes on and it is so worth it although it may take a couple of days. Tell him we're all rooting for him! Spell check on that lol


That makes sense, he told me he did 15 -- blue 30's and 1 1/2 80 oxy's from Friday afternoon to sat AM when he took his last - my goodness.

So, it does take time, he looks like death warmed over, I have my hopes that a decent night sleep with no thrashing followed by tomorrow AM brings him back to life.


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 Post subject: Re: Hubby's turn
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:55 pm 
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Yep, I would bet he waited long enough, but the bupe isn't strong enough to cover him. It's strong in the sense that it took over the receptors, but not strong enough to cover the tolerance, so what is happening is the bupe only has him filled halfway and is lowering his tolerance on it's own. After a couple days of adjustment to this it will even out. In other words, he's in partial withdrwawal.

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 Post subject: Re: Hubby's turn
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:11 am 
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I agree with pugmommy :)

I also think ur hubby going in guns blazing like he did, may have caused this in the long run for his induction. But thankfully this will pass and as long as he keeps taking the sub it'll all go away soon. Keep us posted. Good luck!

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 Post subject: Re: Hubby's turn
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:38 am 
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Thanks for the support and advice.....

As usually is the case in this group, y'all know your stuff.

This morning finally shows some improvement, runs gone, muscle aches a little better, he slept last night, (6 solid hours). Even the headache is gone(although I think that actually was caused by caffeine withdrawals as he hadn't had any coffee for two days, as soon as he had a cup last evening, headache went away).

Best news for all of us, after 3 days the bear has even showered (not shaved yet)!!

He is taking all 16 mg per day, I am 12, while I think that is a lot for both of us, that's a worry for another day.

Will post later or tomorrow AM.

So, will keep on the program, both of us are committed to this.

Will post later or in the AM.


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 Post subject: Re: Hubby's turn
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:48 am 
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That was my next question, if he was taking enough. God bless you guys for not wanting to be on a big dose, but please keep on full dose for awhile, be saturated and transition. Remember that this med is not like full agonists, as a bigger dose is addict like behavior in the beginning. Let your system adapt, and you will know when it will be time to cut your dose. The worst is behind both of you, keep marching on!

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