It is currently Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:27 pm



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:26 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:13 pm
Posts: 62
At the suggestion of my pharmacist-sister who specializes in psychopharmacological (spelling?) drugs because she works in a state prison with the worst of the worst prison population (violent sex offenders), I just bought some HTP to help with what I perceive might be a depletion of serotonin. My sister readily admits she is not an expert on Suboxone and is not sure what the contradictions might be.

She does know that SamE causes some people who take Sub to become manic (and some cursory research on my part substantiated that concern) so I ruled that supplement out quite quickly.

Anyway, I've been on Sub for close to three years & want very much to get off it. I was mistakenly prescribed this drug even though I was not a heavy drug addict ... not even close. But once on it, I couldn't get off it. Apparently we're not "allowed" to debate the merits of this drug on this forum so I'll be a good little party poster and won't. :)

But what would be most helpful is if someone could help me with my HTP question. I've researched it and not found anything that would tell my "yay" or "nay" on my taking this. FYI: I take 1-1.5 mg per day of Sub. I started out taking 16 mg three years ago and have managed to slowly make my way down to this low dose though with Sub, as many of you know, that's not saying a whole lot since even at this "low" dose it's still pretty potent. By the way, does anyone happen to know what the equivalency of 1 mg p/day would be to say, morphine or Vicodin?

Okay, back to the subject at hand. Chronic symptoms of Sub use include: chronic constipation (for which I have to take Dr. Schulz natural supplements + magnesium), emotional detachment, rapid thoughts, craving for sweets, mild convulsing (body shakes) when drifting off to sleep & obsessive dreaming (thankfully no nightmares though ... just Picasso-Fellinesque-Inception type stuff.)

Another symptom that I may or may not have be somehow related to Sub are migraines. They only started happening about a year ago and seem to be related to barometric pressure changes but not always. Some have said that chronic constipation can cause migraines & that it's related to serotonin depletion?


Is this true? Can anyone substaniate this claim? IF this is true, then should I be taking the 5-HTP. Why or why not? Anyone else experienced this combo of migraines + chronic constipation as a result of taking Sub?

Anyone who can help with this, please post your thoughts, comments, etc. As to why I would want to get off Sub the aforementioned side effects should be reason enough. The other reason is not germane to this topic.

Thanks so much!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:04 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:13 pm
Posts: 62
Let me reiterate (or clarify) ... I'm NOT against people who really NEED it taking Sub. I just think it's overprescribed (with myself being one of those people.) Even a well-known doctor who has written a book about Sub (who some of you will have heard of) and who happens to be my personal doctor, agrees I was not a candidate for Sub.

So, perhaps I should not have said anything on that subject––plus, not everyone experiences all the side effects I do

Okay, so hope I've set the record straight on that. I do hope that someone will answer my question(s) as I really do need to see what I can do about these nasty migraines. If the HTP will help then I need to start taking it ASAP!

Thanks again. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:36 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
Hi piper,

I know very little about 5-HTP - isn't it a natural supplement/antidepressant? I know people cannot take it if they take any other medication related to serotonin. Suboxone/buprenorphine doesn't affect serotonin, so you should be fine taking it - BUT know that I am not a doctor or any kind of medical professional.

Some of the side effects you mention are typical. Constipation, sweating, headaches - mostly if you swallow the saliva/juices instead of spit. Some of the other things you've mentioned are quite a bit less common and in my opinion may or may not even be related to suboxone. That said, YOU know your body better than anyone else.

The best advice I can give you is to do a low, slow, extended taper to get off of suboxone. Reduce your dosage by about 10% every couple of weeks - allow your body to adjust to each reduction before doing another. The less you feel each dosage reduction and the slower you go, the easier the "jump" will be and the less acute and post-acute w/d you will have.

I hope you can successfully taper off sub and get to feeling better soon.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:03 am 
Offline
Super-Duper Poster
Super-Duper Poster

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:39 pm
Posts: 311
As Hatmaker said it is fine to take 5 HTP with Sub, but not with any other of the SSRI's (serotonin reuptake inhibitors). It can cause a serotonin syndrome...its not fun and it can be dangerous...but there is no reason you can't take it with sub. Now, I'm not practicing anesthesia currently fyi....but as far as i know there is no contraindication. Just be careful with the herbal supplements...St john's wort for instance is 5 HTP, make sure you are not doubling up on it...

I get pretty severe headaches when I try to go too low on my Sub dose...i don't know the correlation of your migraines to your dosing/tapering schedule....but I've also had headaches when I've had too much sub, too. Lots of help that was, huh?

I know nothing about constipation/serotonin/migraine combo. Makes no sense to me but that doesn't mean it might to someone else.

There is an equivalency chart online....google and it should come up. Not sure if there is one posted on the forum or not.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:02 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
Remember your conversion post, Chinagirl? In that section I posted a link to a post from Dr. J about converting sub into equivalency to other medications. That might help anyone looking for such information. PayThePiper - The title of the thread has the word "Conversion" in it. Chinagirl, do you remember if that was under the misc section?

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:54 am 
Offline
Super-Duper Poster
Super-Duper Poster

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:39 pm
Posts: 311
Hatmaker, I think it was under misc section...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:15 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:13 pm
Posts: 62
Thanks all for your helpful info! It appears that I won't be "creating a monster" (me) by taking HTP but I guess I'll only really know by trying since even pharmacists don't seem to have a definitive answer on that one. :)

In regards to the conversion table, I did not find any links from this forum to one ... just one little blurb about methadone potency equivalency to Sub which is not what I am looking for (though it's rather shocking to learn that 30 mg of methadone = only 0.8 of Sub!

What I'm looking for is that table that gives you ALL the opiates equivalency.

I had a thought once that if I switched from Sub to Vicodin and stayed on Vicodin for several weeks then taper down from that wouldn't the withdrawal be less severe. I mean, Vicodin has a short shelf life and has an easier withdrawal so that makes sense doesn't it? Plus the PAWS would be a lot less severe.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Maybe I should post this idea in another category.

piper


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:32 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
Here's what Dr. J. had to say about conversion:

Quote:
...the problem is the non-linear kinetics of buprenorphine. You can't just extrapolate out with bupe, like you can with agonists that don't have a 'ceiling effect'.

In other words, one mg of buprenorphine is as potent as about 20 mg of methadone, 2 mg of buprenorphine is as potent as 30-40 mg of methadone, and 4 mg, 8 mg, or 24 mg of buprenorphine are all as potent as 30-40 mg of methadone! The calculator works fine as long as you use doses for buprenorphine below the 'ceiling' effect-- say down in the microgram ranges. But you cannot use those numbers to project out in a straight line-- because the potency of buprenorphine, being a 'partial agonist', doesn't follow a straight line.


Also, PAWS is not exclusive to Suboxone. It can happen with ALL opiates.

I personally don't think it's a good idea to go back to vicodin - it's just too risky, I think.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:03 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:38 pm
Posts: 6
5 HTP was actually recommended to me as a supplement to sub especially in the early stages by a friend of mine who was in med school at the time. I didn't take it religiously, but noticed nothing wrong.


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject: 5 htp
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:05 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 833
i talked with a pharmacist about 5htp a derived amino acid. i was going to by it for 28$ a small bottle. he said your better off taking ssri's than tryptophan. he said it can bring a plants serotonin level up' but that is a plant! we are people!! :lol: i'm still thinking about it though.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:18 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:44 pm
Posts: 43
I take 200mg of time released 5HTP every morning. I started it shortly after my sub induction and noticed a big lift in my mood. Now, if I forget to take it some days, I don't notice much of a change, but I figure if my serotonin levels were depleted by years of abuse, it can't hurt to have something help lift it. I was kind of depressed and angry on the sub before I started it, but now feel way more normal and like my old self. I don't know how much 5HTP has to do with it, but I won't be foregoing my morning dose of it anytime soon. I believe it's giving me benefits and helping my brain to heal. I also take 2 Alpha-Brain every morning (it's a nootropic produced by onnit.com), along with a sublingual B12-B6 tablet. In the evening, I take Garlic, Iron, Vitamin D, Anti-oxidants, a Probiotic blend, Fish Oil, a Multi-Vitamin, Trader Joes "Very Green" vegetable supplement, and Saw Palmetto. I firmly believe these supplements help keep me healthy and illness free. I took most of them pretty religiously even in the last year of my addiction, but have added the 5HTP, alpha brain and b vitamins since starting sub. They really helped elevate my mood and make me more jovial and less depressed/angry.

Good luck.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:05 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:02 pm
Posts: 994
5-htp + suboxone = fine. I used to take it all the time. Can't say it helps much for depression, which is its main use though. It might have a marginal impact but it stopped working after a lil while.

Also I don't know about the whole buprenorphine + sam-e = mania. I haven't heard of that before. I've taken sam-e while on buprenorphine and had no such problem, and I have bipolar as well.

A lot of the mood affecting / lifting supplements have mania warnings for people with bipolar or bipolar spectrum related illness. Any kinda anti-depressant could potentially flip a person with bipolar into mania if they're sensitive at the time, or under-medicated. But I doubt someone without pre-existing bipolar illness could go manic from sam-e, with or without suboxone.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group