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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:06 am 
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Right. While that is true (concerning the mucuous membranes within the mouth), it seems that the way to get the most easily controlled yet strong dose is to place it on those veins for as long as possible. I even lightly rub the Suboxone after a certain amount of time into these veins with my tongue. Afterwards... you slosh it around to let the remainder get absorbed further by the membranes within the mouth. I would say that it is absorbed around 50% by the time it is no longer under your tongue, and another 10-15% further by the mouth in general (if you are lucky).


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:18 pm 
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Wow after reading all the posts I feel awkward for being on such a high dose. I'm on the 8mg film strips (32mg daily) I take two in the morning and two at night. I know its that right dose since I feel like a normal functioning human being again. I just noticed no one else is on a high dose like that. I started my Suboxone on January 19th 2012 and I had a nasty Heroin/Roxy habit - $150 a day at times, I worked several jobs just to feed my habit. Originally the first week he had me take three then I had a really bad cravings towards the end of my first week and I called him and he said I needed to start taking four. He had a feeling I would have to do that. I break my doses into two parts of the day mainly due to my pain issues as well as for addiction. I started on opiates 6 years ago from an injured back and it spiraled out of control from there. I noticed a lot of you have been on it for much longer then I have did you start off at a higher does and just taper down some?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:35 pm 
Hi Tavagain,
There's no such thing as the "right" dose, so dont feel awkwark or worry about it. If it works for you then stick to it. I started on 32 mgs per day in November last year and am now down to 16 mg's, I was getting a few side effects so I decided to drop the dose a bit.
Cheers
Subie


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:41 pm 
hatmaker510 wrote:
Even though those are the manufacturer instructions, according to Dr. Junig, who has many degrees (which I cannot state at the moment), ANY of the mucous membranes on the inside of the mouth will equally absorb the suboxone film or tablets. There is nothing special about those veins under the tongue. Just wanted to clarify that. You can do a search for "maximum absorption" and find the good doctor's posts about this.


Spot on. Although those veins under the tongue look impressive, I'm pretty sure all the absorption is done through the capillaries, just under the surface, not through veins.
Cheers
Subie


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 Post subject: Thank you!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:02 am 
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subie wrote:
Hi Tavagain,
There's no such thing as the "right" dose, so dont feel awkwark or worry about it. If it works for you then stick to it. I started on 32 mgs per day in November last year and am now down to 16 mg's, I was getting a few side effects so I decided to drop the dose a bit.
Cheers
Subie


Thank you that definitely makes feel better about my dosage. I haven't come across any side effects that are too annoying yet except the taste of it! I wish there was a way to make it more tolerable. Are the pills as bad as the films on taste and do you have to wait as long before you can drink anything?


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 Post subject: Re: Thank you!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:46 am 
Tavagain wrote:
subie wrote:

Thank you that definitely makes feel better about my dosage. I haven't come across any side effects that are too annoying yet except the taste of it! I wish there was a way to make it more tolerable. Are the pills as bad as the films on taste and do you have to wait as long before you can drink anything?


Hi Tavagain,
To be honest I don't mind the taste, but then I really do have strange taste buds, I love all those herbal tinctures and extracts like horse radish and echinacea etc.
For the first week or so I was taking the pills then was switched overs to the films, I definitely think the films have a stronger "sharper" taste. I usually wait at least 15 minutes after tabs/films have dissolved completely before I drink anything.
Cheers
Subie


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:39 am 
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If the taste really bothers you, Dr. J has said in the past that you can pop a breath mint in your mouth at the same time and it won't interfere with the absorption of the sub. Try that out, it might make a difference for you. :)

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 Post subject: Great Idea
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:04 pm 
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hatmaker510 wrote:
If the taste really bothers you, Dr. J has said in the past that you can pop a breath mint in your mouth at the same time and it won't interfere with the absorption of the sub. Try that out, it might make a difference for you. :)


I tried the breath mint and it helped a bunch thank you!


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 Post subject: Re: Thank you!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:04 pm 
Tavagain wrote:
subie wrote:
Hi Tavagain,
There's no such thing as the "right" dose, so dont feel awkwark or worry about it. If it works for you then stick to it. I started on 32 mgs per day in November last year and am now down to 16 mg's, I was getting a few side effects so I decided to drop the dose a bit.
Cheers
Subie


Thank you that definitely makes feel better about my dosage. I haven't come across any side effects that are too annoying yet except the taste of it! I wish there was a way to make it more tolerable. Are the pills as bad as the films on taste and do you have to wait as long before you can drink anything?


[align=justify]Another point,
You might find as I did, that you can drop the dose quite easily
(of course check with your doctor first) The less you take,
the more tolerable the taste is going to be.

Here's a link to dr Junig answering a question regarding my dosage you might find interesting
.


[/align]32mg's OK? Dr Junig

Seeya, Subie


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:01 am 
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IMO the pills taste better than the film. But I only used the film once before I switched back, and taste was a minor factor in that decision.

Interesting video from Dr. J regarding doses above 12mg.


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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:45 pm 
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OK, so i use the film. i'm wondering which is the important part of dosing as far as best for total absorbsion - while it's dissolving or after it has dissolved letting the spit set in your mouth? or does any of this really matter so long as you don't swallow for about 15 mins? because the directions that come with the script is really specific and kind of vague at the same time. i always put my film under my tongue -making sure that it is actually ON the bottom of my tongue in a certain spot, i kind of stick it on there- and like press my tongue down against the bed of my mouth -[you know, that part underneath your tongue, where it's connected to your mouth. . . .?]- and always wait 45 minutes before i swallow the spit. should i not press my tongue down? hold it up like above the bed? are all these small details even important at all? Thanks.


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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:56 pm 
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It's not important where in your mouth it dissolves at. All the mucous membranes in your mouth will dissolve it in the same way, according to Dr. Junig. So you can put it between your gums and your cheek if you wanted to and still get the same effect.
Some people do hold it in their mouth as long as you do; that's really personal preference if you want to get every little tiny bit of medication that you can. To me, 45 minutes is a bit much though. 15-20 should suffice. And yes, it is important not to eat or drink anything for a good 15 minutes after it's dissolved and you've spit or swallowed. And no, you don't have to press your tongue down at all.

I hope this helps. If you have more questions, just ask away. :)

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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 8:08 pm 
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well yes, that is helpful. just 2 more things: when you say
Quote:
15-20 should suffice.
is that total? or is that 15-20 mins after the film has dissolved?
and: should my mouth be really dry, or kinda moist with spit? or is that not too important either? doesa it matter how long it actually takes to dissolve? is it better slower or faster?
thanks again.


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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 8:17 pm 
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jemccullough13 wrote:
well yes, that is helpful. just 2 more things: when you say
Quote:
15-20 should suffice.
is that total? or is that 15-20 mins after the film has dissolved?
and: should my mouth be really dry, or kinda moist with spit? or is that not too important either? doesa it matter how long it actually takes to dissolve? is it better slower or faster?
thanks again.


Dr. Junig says that a dryer mouth is better; that it's a matter of more medicine being absorbed with less saliva so the concentration of meds being absorbed is higher or something to that effect, if I'm recalling correctly. For me, when my mouth is dryer, the taste is that much more horrible and it takes MUCH longer to dissolve. If one's mouth has much more saliva, then it tends to dissolve faster. It's true that if one holds their saliva in their mouth for awhile, they will get more absorption in that additional 15-20 minutes, but not too much more after that (or so I believe Dr. J said). (I was saying 15-20 minutes of holding the saliva after it has dissolved and before swallowing or spitting.)

I think I got all your questions...let me know if I missed any of them. Believe me, with suboxone and their specific, yet vague instructions and the fact that some of them are meaningless (like the ONLY under the tongue directions) according to Dr. Junig, IT IS CONFUSING, so don't feel bad about asking these questions. I mean, notice how many pages this thread is.

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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 5:40 pm 
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Oh! i do have a couple more questions: is it OK to smoke directly after taking the sub? because they say not to eat or drink for 30 mins, i wondered if it was OK then to smoke a cigarette? and with that in mind, is it OK to do any of the above Before taking the sub? because i've heard that certain things -such as citric acid, coffee, etc.- will destroy the medicine in your mouth. but maybe that's just some misinformation.
yea it does get confusing. like how the directions say to place it under the tongue and make sure it doesn't move and once you've placed it there not to move it and the thing about Holding It In Place [in the more detailed prescibing info packet thing that comes inside the script box] makes it seem like the whole tongue part - and exactly which part of your tongue it's on- is very important. So really, to me it seems as though the important part of dosing as far as the absorbsion is the part After it's dissolved. like really all you need to do is let the sub dissolve in a small amount of spit in your mouth, hold it there for about 15 mins., then don't eat for drink for another 1/2 hour. . . right? maybe i just complicate things in my mind. . .plus you know the addict mentality to not dare waste any of the meds. which there still is no reason to waste any, even if it was an aspirin, you'd want to get the whole aspirin, you know? and depending on your healthcare provider, or lack-there-of, subs can be a very expensive aspirin.
OK, thanks again for all your help!


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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 5:52 pm 
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Not everyone goes this far to get the very best absorption. I take 16+ mg per day (I dose for pain, too), so since I'm on a fairly high dose, I don't worry too much about getting really good absorption.

I've heard we shouldn't smoke afterwards for about 15-20 minutes afterward as well, but I smoke right after myself, mostly to get the taste out of my mouth.

I've also heard to not smoke before or drink certain things beforehand, but I honestly have never paid attention to that, either. The people who are careful about their absorption are those on really low doses and those who pay cash. After all, through sublingual administration, the absorption rate is really low already.

But definitely you don't have to keep it under your tongue - any of the mucous membranes in your mouth are sufficient.

Did I cover all your questions? I think I did.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 6:48 pm 
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I've heard that drinking caffeinated beverages or smoking before or after dosing MIGHT have an effect on how much you absorbe because caffeine and cigarette smoke constricts the blood vessels in your mouth, making it harder for the sub to get into your bloodstream.

I haven't researched any of this, but if you are concerned about absorbtion, maybe just try not to do either of these for 20 minutes before or after taking your sub, just to be safe, like hatmaker suggested.

I noticed that when I take the sub right when I wake up in the morning, when my mouth is the driest, I seem to get the best absorbtion. So that is my favorite time to take it. I feel like when I take it in the middle of the day, too much saliva accumulates and "waters down" the sub. I don't mind doing this because I like the taste. :lol: I know, I'm weird.


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 5:31 pm 
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I take mine by injection due to the higher bioavailability. I need to make whatever I do have last me as long as possible


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 10:17 pm 
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I take 8/2mg three times a day for two weeks. Following that ill go to two times a day. And I take the film.


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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 12:56 am 
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I started on the tablets a year ago, then went to the film last October so I could save money on the copayment. Last week, I went back to the tablets again for better taste and convenience. I'm prescribed 1/2of an 8mg tablet x 4 times a day, but I normally just take two halves, three if my back + shoulder hurt. I take the tab, chew it with my front teeth, then spread the paste or whatever you want to call it around my mouth. I hold it and the saliva for 15/20 mins, then swallow it. I feel that this allows me optimal absorption.


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