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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:15 pm 
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Hi, I am feeling down and keep having intrusive thoughts about my Doc. I am stabilized on 8mg for about one month. I am not having cravings, just thoughts. I feel good on sub overall, it has eliminated the crazy full time obsession with drugs that makes you feel like you will die if you can't satisfy your cravings right now. That is gone and I couldn't be more thankful.

But I still think about doc, and have a little voice that tries to keep addiction alive. And a little grief that it is gone, and hopefully forever. I am still kind of exploring which recovery methods are most helpful. Been to some NA meetings, some really great things, and some things I don't buy into. And I'm doing individual therapy and have looked at some Smart recovery stuff. But I haven't thrown myself into one type of recovery and wondering, do you think that is necessary? Pick something and go all in or is "shopping around" okay?

Also, for those of you who have been on subs (or recovery in general) do you still have thoughts about doc? How do you manage them (not just what your recovery method teaches you), but in the moment how do you handle it- what do you tell yourself, what do you do?( if you don't mind sharing personal thoughts). Do people know what I mean? Or do I just sound like a relapse waiting to happen? I'm happy- but like always something is missing.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:34 pm 
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Hey Tragic, sorry things are rough for you right now. Were you ever on a dose higher than 8mg of sub? I've seen subjective accounts of people not getting complete relief from those ol' thoughts on that dose (starting out). I see you've been around the forum for a while, you probably know that as your brain heals a little bit and adjusts to Suboxone you aren't as emotionally numb as you were when you were using. It sounds to me that you still have the psychological side of the addiction in remembering the good times with your DOC (even subconsciously) and not all of the hell you've been through due to it - very common for us addicts! You mention therapy, are you seeing a psychiatrist? I hate to reccomend medications since I'm not a doctor, but it may be worth taking an internal inventory of where you are vs where you want to be and looking into antidepressants to help you get there. They can work wonders even in the relatively short term of 4-6months. I'm sure someone will weigh in with better advice soon, best of luck!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:35 pm 
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Hey TC,

I can relate very well. I've been addicted and i've been sober, and sober is better. I look back at my drug history as having two main chapters, the first having to do with getting sober in AA many years ago,
the second getting hooked on opiates for 12 years and finally cleaning up via buprenorphine...

The thing is, it's a damn loss getting clean. As badly as the drugs and booze in my case earlier on beat is up,
we still miss them. There's a huge existential question to be answered when newly sober, which is "what now?"

Slowly we learn to fill that empty space. That's what recovery is all about. These things take time. But you'll get there.

I do want to add one thing though to do with the medication. Have you tried a higher dose? 16 mg perhaps?
You might feel a difference. Of course no medication can save all of life's problems as Dr. J's recently pointed out, but cravings come in different forms, and in different intensities.

It's something to consider perhaps. You've been sober on subs for one month? If I have that right, it's not
at all a long time. It can take awhile to adjust...

Best wishes,
Godfrey


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:05 pm 
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Hey tragicom.

I had a little bit of this feeling when I first started suboxone. I didn't have cravings anymore but I missed my opiates. It was crazy because I hated them but missed them all at once. But this is where u have to get urself busy. Buprenorphine is a tool and u still have to be responsible for fulfilling ur life again..... and it can be an adjustment for sure!

Ur taking ur suboxone correctly and doing therapy, so that's awesome, now u gotta find a passion. I started improving myself again like buying a treadmill to lose a few lbs. I also started working on my shopping :) hey I really needed it (just don't get toooo into shopping). Then I started going out with my family more, like out to cool restaurants. Another thing I do now is gardening, it's became a huge passion of mine. And recently I bought a lionhead rabbit and have learned everything to know about caring for him. We keep him inside and he's litter trained! He has a cage but just free roams mostly. Those are just a few things I've done to fill my time, I don't expect u to be into these things but u get the point.

Buprenorphine helps us put our lives bk on track but there's still life and so much more that bupe doesn't do that we gotta figure out for ourselves. And imo learning to focus our minds on healthy things again is one of those things. I really hope that makes sense to u. After our doc is gone, there's a huge hole left and we have to fill it.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:53 pm 
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Great comments. To build on the comments about 'what we lose' with recovery, recognize that giving up our drug of choice requires a grieving or mourning process. Most of the 'feelings' are positive, but you also have to mourn or grieve the loss of your best friend. It is similar to having a BF or GF who you knew you coudn't be with, who added drama and conflict to every single day.... but you still have a hard time breaking up with.

One thing I stress is to always take memories 'full circle', to avoid euphoric recall. If you are thinking about a day when you had a great buzz, make sure that you also add in what the ENTIRE experience consisted of--- the look of disappointment on your dad or spouse's face, or that feeling in your stomach when you know you were caught in a lie. After all, there is no way to have one without the other.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:24 am 
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Tragicom wrote:
Been to some NA meetings, some really great things, and some things I don't buy into. And I'm doing individual therapy and have looked at some Smart recovery stuff. But I haven't thrown myself into one type of recovery and wondering, do you think that is necessary? Pick something and go all in or is "shopping around" okay?


I get this totally. I'm one of those people who shops around, taking what I need from each methodology and leaving the rest. It has its benefits in that I feel I'm getting a more holistic program tailored to my needs. But it comes with its drawbacks, especially when the recovery form you're checking out is of the "take it or leave it" variety, which I found 12-step fellowships and Odyssey House to be very much like.

If you need to use your recovery format as a social group, and for people to hang out with, I wouldn't speak too loudly about seeking "outside help" as the mere idea can be controversial. But in the end, I prefer the methods that are open to, and allow people, to come to their own conclusions as to what works for them. I find SMART is good like that. I also do an outpatient group at a private hospital once a week where they do interpersonal therapy.

Good luck! Keep us posted.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:08 am 
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Thanks everyone. I'm so happy that some of you think of giving up doc in a similar way to losing a best friend or boyfriend. That is exactly what it feels like. I made this analogy to a non addict friend and she looked at me like she was thinking of how pathetic that is. So glad to have people that understand. I'm better off without that chaos but am still grieving too. I'm going to try Dr J's method- thinking it all the way through. All those bad things you mentioned are things I have no desire to experience again.

Filling in my life is also exactly what I need too, Jenn and Godfrey both suggested that. I spent so much time and energy on pursuing, thinking about, figuring out the best lies to tell, etc. it is such a relief that I don't have to do any of that with subs, but it is like- wow, what do I do with all this time and energy? It's kind of exciting, but also scary to think I can create a new life now.

Orion- I already take an antidepressant and mood stabilizer, but thanks for the suggestion. I don't feel clinically depressed, more just blah. I do have a long history of depression so I always monitor that to make sure it's not getting too bad.

Tee jay- good to know you take a little of everything, makes me feel better. Still new to recovery and I'm just working my way through it.

Oh, and my treatment with subs started really strangely, with me begging to get on them after I had gone through withdrawal and an agonizing few weeks of Butrans. I discussed this in detail in another thread, so I don't want to make people re-read the whole ordeal! My doctors told me at my last appointment that "no one needs to take more than 16 mg" and people that have that much are just selling most of it, so I don't think he will be raising my dose. I should make a whole new thread about that! Couldn't believe he said that, especially with all I've read here. Really perplexing and somewhat offensive!

Love to hear anyone else's thoughts too!
Best


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:08 am 
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I'm glad I read this thread. I, too, am having the same problem. I am constantly thinking about my doc. I am on day 7 right now, I have been trying to keep myself busy, but those thoughts still slip through. I wake up still with cold chills, too. I highly doubt my doctor will raise me from 12MG. When he put me on pain meds, my nurse that gives me it everyday said 'doctor Roy said you will only be on 12MG for 8 weeks, and then you will drop to 8mg as a stable dose since IT WAS ONLY A PAINKILLER ADDICTION AND NOT HEROIN ADDICTION'. So I'll probably be in arose shape when that happens.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:59 pm 
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That doesn't make much sense. I've seen people hooked on painkillers with a much higher tolerance to opioids than your average heroin addict. It might be different in the USA.

That being said I have a theory that Suboxone is more effective for non-intravenous painkiller addiction. According to many Suboxone prescribers I've spoken to, heroin addicts relapse more often while on Suboxone treatment than painkiller addicts. I put this down to the concept that the act of taking Suboxone resembles taking painkillers a lot more than the act of injecting drugs. ie you put Suboxone in your mouth and let it dissolve, then swallow. Not unlike putting a pill in your mouth, chewing it and swallowing. IV is a whole different ritual that doesn't resemble taking Suboxone at all. So for those on Suboxone the act of taking it satiates / subdues the psychological ritualistic aspect of addiction for painkiller addicts a lot more than IV addicts.

In the UK they recognised this decades ago, when they started prescribing IV methadone to those patients who continued to use heroin while on the methadone program. Mind you it's rarely prescribed, and only given to the most difficult cases.

Regarding the using thoughts. These will happen, but understand that they do subside as you stabilise on your program. Suboxone isn't a miracle cure. Nothing is. Just last night I was talking to a guy who has quit smoking for 6 years and he still gets thoughts. One of the biggest hurdles when someone is new to recovery is to accept "life on life's terms", and using thoughts are a big part of this.

That being said if your using thoughts are crippling and you find yourself close to skipping doses to go use your DOC, advocate for yourself to be on a dose that makes them manageable. Be honest and up front with your doctor at all times. There are times when I can get by on 8mg. However my doctor has forced me to take 16mg a day given I lapsed into using in Feb after I'd gotten down to 6mg. 16mg is more than enough for a 24hour blockade, so using is out of the question for me. And what's funny is given using is out of the question, I'm not even thinking about it.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:23 am 
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I was a morphine IV addict for about 2 years then the shooting part started making me sick, after 2 yrs I felt like I had to switch to another form of using. Imo I never could get a good high on morphine other than shooting it so I switched to oxycodone. I snorted oxycodone til the day I did my induction to suboxone. I never took it by mouth. So when I started suboxone, putting it under my tongue took a lot of getting used to. It didn't feel good to me at all, but I did get used to it because I saw how wonderful it helped my cravings. Would I have felt different if I'd still been on the needle and having to give that up too..... I'd like to think so since I was absolutely ready to stop using but I don't know personally.

I agree that ppl get used to the needle as much as the drug but I don't think it would have kept me from being successful on bupe if I were truly ready. But I don't think ppl realize how different it is being on the needle, it's a complete addiction all to itself. I can definitely see how even more difficult it would be on someone using opiates IV at the time of their induction.

Thankfully I was able to stop IV after two years and it was easier for me because I started getting 'cotton fever' and muscle aches every time I would do it. I have no idea why that started but I was thankful for it in the long run.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:29 am 
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I have been on buprenorphine for 11 years and still get thoughts of using my drug of choice ,pills. I notice that these thoughts coincide with times when I am either down in the dumps or anxious. Not much I can do about it. I just ride it out, the thoughts go away. I'm sure that people who have stressful jobs and parents of small children frequently have thoughts of running away or fantasy's of a mythical magical life without stress or disappointment. All of us have to live life in reality, not a fairy tale. I seem to be in an odd stream of consciousness kind of mood. Stay strong. If you don't use the thoughts will eventually go away.


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