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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:22 pm 
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I have only a few doses left, enough to have to come in about 5 days early.
I am pretty sure my doc will fill me early but I know he's gonna give me crap, and ask why. I dont really have a good excuse other than I have been craving more, and my pain is not being controlled by subutex. (I am on it to get off opiates, not for pain) I have a lot of anxiety, pain, & cravings and that makes me want to take more. Every month he cuts my dose down. I went from 20mg to now 8mg per day.

What or how should I tell my doc I am out early, and this hasnt been the 1st time probably the 3rd

Also how am I gonna get the pharmacy to fill my script, since I went thru a 30 day supply in 23days? I will be filling it probably 5days early...

Please give me suggestions for those 2 questions.
Thanks!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:27 pm 
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Well, you could be honest with your doc and let him know that you don't feel like the lowered dose is doing it for you.. or you could go the typical addict route and lie. I've used the old "I'm going out of town to visit family and will need to get my next script a little early" trick. It worked for me but your doctor may see through it. Either way, the doc and the pharmacy shouldn't be able to say shit. If you're going out of town, you have to fill it. Sub can't be filled across state lines.

I think you should just talk to your doctor and let him know that this dosage is not helping your cause. Because making up some excuse is only a band aid. You will have the same problem next month. How long have you been on it?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:48 pm 
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I live in Florida, the pharmacies are strict. I've ran out early, and got a new script only for a pharmacist refuse to fill it bc it "was too early" I end up taking the script to multiple pharmacies till I find one to fill it. For example if I filled at CVS this month, I'll go to Walgreens to fill next month if its early bc they don't have CVS's records. Its BS & feels wrong. It's not like I am asking them to fill it early, I'll have the script in hand with today's date on it & they still wont fill it. So like I said I end up driving around till I find one who will fill it. Thank god the Rx Database isn't mandatory yet and only walgreens i think is in it. I'll probably go to walmart this time since I haven't been there in a while.

I was thinking just go in there and tell him, I just had a lot of craving to take more at night, even tho he gave me temazepam for sleep, but that doesn't really help the craving. So combined with the craving, the pain I have, and anxiety I just cant stop myself.
He told me last time my therapist is supposed to help me with cravings. But I don't see her anymore, I been lying the last few months about that. Told him I been seeing my therapist, but I haven't. I stopped when I lost my job. I switched to subutex 2 months ago, bc of the price. He wanted 6mo of clean piss & I been clean of everything. Even pot.

I started Sub treatment beginning of April 2012


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:51 pm 
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Hey man you really need to be honest with your Dr. Your mind set and thinking sounds like you are still thinking like a addict in active addiction. You are lying about not seeing your therapist going to several pharmacy's till you trick one into filling your script early. Taking more than your supposed to every month/night. Needing early refills more than once i mean im not trying to be mean but all the stuff you are doing is what the majority of us did during our active using days. All im saying is your Dr needs to know all this is going on so he can actually try and help you but when you tell him lie after lie he cant really help you. If i was in your shoes i would start seeking a out patient program so you can start talking to a counselor about cravings and so fourth. Subutext is not a magic pill just because you are on it doesnt make all your problems go away fm you past. You need to relearn how to live life again sober. And just taking a pill wont do that.


To your questions since this the thrid time hes not going to buy a bullshit excuse again so your only good option is to tell the truth. And being you live in Florida you are going to have a hard time i would think.

Again im not trying to b a jerk but you need to get back on track and more meds and liying isnt going to help.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:11 pm 
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So what should i tell him exactly do you suggest?? I know I am not doing good, thanks for pointing out the obvious. And I never said lie after lie to him, only that I am seeing a therapist when I am not.
I dont see how I am "tricking" a pharmacy to fill it. When I go to the doctor out of medication & he gives me a script to fill that day for more, bc I am out of meds? I was merely saying how when I have a legal script in hand how can a pharmacist go over my doc by not filling it? Obviously that is a personal choice & not a matter of legality, of a particular pharmacist when another one will fill it...

I said thank god about the Rx Database bc then all the pharms would have all the other records, so if I was prescribed for 30days, but filled a legit Rx at 25days I would not be able to, unless I got my doc involved, Since it is not, I just need to go to a different pharmacy. It doesn't necessarily need to be a different name of a pharmacy. but just a different location. It is not illegal bc the doc knows the situation, and gives me a Rx with the day on it, it is not postdated. The doc knows I am filling it early. It is just pharmacists with god complex's thinking the are preventing me from getting high, when they are just making me sick, unable to do anything due to w/d's
I am asking on this thread how/what I should tell my Doc

The circumstances as I mentioned in the beginning is that I am having a lot of anxiety, cravings & pain which is making me take more than prescribed. I have been getting less & less quantity of meds every month, so I am tapering, slowly. your giving me no help or meaningful advice, other than "tell your doc the truth"

Also, how does living in Florida make any difference, in telling my doc I am out ans getting an early refill??

Well the reason for this post is to find a suggestion on exactly what to tell my doc & how to tell him, based on the "truth" I have already mentioned.

I understand this is not a magic pill. I am sure you have stuff in your life that causes you issues. I didnt ask someone to please point out my faults & weaknesses, I asked for help.
I am in an outpatient program, its called going to my sub doc every month. I attend NA meetings regular, I just cant afford a private therapist.

So to ALL the other people that have read everything so far, I am looking for suggestions on how to tell my doc I ran out of my meds early, due to anxiety, cravings & pain, and because *DUH* I am an addict.
Yes this isn't the 1st time, probably the 3rd since April '12, but it hasn't happened in several months, this is the 1st month I Voluntarily dropped my dose from 10mg to 8mg

We all make mistakes, I admitting I made one. But I need help on tactics on speaking to my doc...Not just "tell the truth"
Can someone in a non-judgemental way provide me some suggestions that arent obvious???


Last edited by Pr0oph on Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:16 pm 
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Pr0oph wrote:
I live in Florida, the pharmacies are strict. I've ran out early, and got a new script only for a pharmacist refuse to fill it bc it "was too early" I end up taking the script to multiple pharmacies till I find one to fill it. For example if I filled at CVS this month, I'll go to Walgreens to fill next month if its early bc they don't have CVS's records. Its BS & feels wrong. It's not like I am asking them to fill it early, I'll have the script in hand with today's date on it & they still wont fill it. So like I said I end up driving around till I find one who will fill it. Thank god the Rx Database isn't mandatory yet and only walgreens i think is in it. I'll probably go to walmart this time since I haven't been there in a while.

I was thinking just go in there and tell him, I just had a lot of craving to take more at night, even tho he gave me temazepam for sleep, but that doesn't really help the craving. So combined with the craving, the pain I have, and anxiety I just cant stop myself.
He told me last time my therapist is supposed to help me with cravings. But I don't see her anymore, I been lying the last few months about that. Told him I been seeing my therapist, but I haven't. I stopped when I lost my job. I switched to subutex 2 months ago, bc of the price. He wanted 6mo of clean piss & I been clean of everything. Even pot.

I started Sub treatment beginning of April 2012


Do you have insurance? Maybe it's the insurance company saying it's too soon. That's happened to me before. I live in South Florida, so I know what a hassle it can be to get Subs (now I have to show my ID at CVS).

Regarding the RX database, I thought that was already up and running. Do you know any more about this? I haven't really thought about it since I stopped taking oxycodone (very good timing).

But to your initial question, I agree with tinydancer that being honest about needing more is probably the best idea. I'd rather be prescribed more than I need and have some leftover in case you end up having problems getting a refill.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:15 pm 
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A lot depends on your doctor. My doctor is so strict that I had to sign a contract with him and trust me he would not allow me 2nd or even a 3 rd time to get an earl refill for being out. He would dismiss me from is practice. With that said it seems your doctor is a little understanding if he is willing to write you subutex because alot of doctors will not even consider it unless your female and pregnant. Is there anyway you could cut what you have left ?(Do you have any left) and just take sparingling to get to your appointment. If this was me and I have been on Sub my first month I had to cut my dose in order to make my appointment. Only once my first doctor helped me because I left my sub in a hotel in Memphis while working and someone took 4 pills. After 4 days I was in full w/d when I arrived at his office and it was bad................but really less is better......If you have some left and can cut down to 4mg or 2 mgs a day until your appointment then would be the time to bring it up to him/her. Be adamant and say look I am tapering too fast and I am afraid that I may use. I would like to go back to 10 mgs and and do a slower taper. I am stressed right now without a job........I appreciate you helping me by putting me on subutex but I really think unless all he cares about is money that he is going to buy a 3rd time in a 6 month period.............this is a very strong drug and you will be surprised how you can get by on 2 mgs a day when your recepters are fully saturated...........I wish you luck. The last thing you would want to be in is a situation where you have to look for a new doctor............Much luck

Jim


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:29 pm 
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Damn iPhone I must of hit da delete icon instead of edit one. Ill have rewrite in in a bit. But no need to get deffensive my friend!

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:41 pm 
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If it were me, I would set up an appointment before your sub runs out. Tell him you have "x" amount left because you're having a hard time maintaining on the new, lower dose. Let him know that you've been taking "x" amount to fight the cravings and that you're sorry for going against his recommended daily dose instructions but that you are just not ready to lower/ taper. Tell him you are trying to get your life together and this medicine is helping but that you need to up your dose the slightest bit for a little while to keep everything together.

Are you taking the same dose daily? Or are you taking extra on certain days? You should really find a daily dose that works for you so you are not taking extra pieces.. it messes with your recovery and lead to a higher tolerance, making your usual daily dose not as effective.

Hope that helps. If he does not hear you out, you need to re-evaluate whether his recommended dose can actually get you by if you give it a shot or you'll have to find another doctor who shares your views on your treatment plan.

Good luck!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:40 pm 
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(a) Don't beat yourself up.
(b) Be honest. Tell him you're committed to your recovery but you're finding the rapid reduction too much. Ask if you guys can reach an agreement / compromise about the rate of your reduction. Acknowledge that you know he only wants the best for you and your recovery, and that you are committed to getting off Subutex. But you are beginning to experience cravings (which is a prelude to physical withdrawal IMO), and that now you're on a lower dose of Sub you're starting to feel each reduction more.

Make sure you acknowledge that he's the expert. Don't dictate your own terms, just express your needs.

Good luck.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:00 am 
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Hi there :wink:

I think TJ gave you some real good advice, here.......

You know,, we ARE Addicts, and this happens, definitely DO NOT BEAT YOURSELF UP......
your doing BETTER,,,,
that's what counts in my opinion.....
it took me about six months to get my "act together" and actually take my perscribed amt,
so you are NOT THE ONLY ONE..................

I live in a pretty rural area,,, so I was pleaded with my doctor, I think it must've been four or five times,,,,
not sure.... but the LAST time, he definitely told me if I in fact DID NOT straighten up, I wouldn't be able to see
him anymore.....

If you have a doctor that cares enough to give you the generic, to save money,,, I would think he'd be caring enough,
to give in and write you a new perscription..............
but I could be wrong.
I know it's scary and intimidating, and all that stuff, but it's part of "owning" our behavior,,
and you'll feel better afterwards........

I hope things go well for you my friend :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:33 am 
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[font=Comic Sans MS]Hi there! I t totally sucks to be in that position. I've been there before. More than once. My advice to you is
1~be honest with the doc. If the dose isn't working for you, and you need more, than you HAVE to make him
understand that.

2~Try to understand that we are all just being honest with you, and trying to help. Getting defensive with Bboy
made me afraid to answer you, out of fear that you would get short with me too. Bboy has been around here
a long time, and has got a lot of great knowledge on addiction and recovery. Not to mention, we can all spot
addictive thinking when we see it.

We ALL understand you, and want to help you. Sometimes I had to hear the truth, even though I didn't like it.
But It was definitely what I needed to hear. I told my doctor flat out, that I was taking extras. That the dose that
I was on, was just not going to cut it. I told him that if he keeps me on this dose, one of two things is going to
happen. I am either going to throw my hands in the air, say "f it" and go use, or I am going to keep showing up
early and asking for refills.

We are addicts. Make him understand that. Tear up if ya have to. I did. Again, I am so sorry that you are in this
position, but it looks like the majority of our long term members are all telling you the same thing....be honest.
It's part of recovery. Good luck to you, and please let us know how it all works out.

Oh, and Jim,,,,,,my state and EVERY pharmacy here is on that computer system too....i got out of my active addiction
just in the nick of time too!!!!![/font]

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:31 am 
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Hey man you may not of like what I had to say but I can't sit here hold your hand telling you everything is ok when it's not. I could lie to but what's that going to do for you. We are addicts sometimes we need to be told in a straight forward mannor. And I'm not judging you I'm a addict too bud. I was once in the same spot you are in now and the lying got me only into a deeper hole. Till I started telling the truth nothing changed, like you I thought I was doing enough by going to the sub Dr once a month in reality I was making no true changes in my life. So I think instead of asking us for your next excuse tell him what's really going on like TJ or tiny said. As of pharmacist denying your script they are not playing god they have rules and regulations to follow to keep there job.

I wish u da best of luck but I won't treat u like a child. But since u dislike my approach I'll leave you thrread alone. Just remember that you are above all this mostly all the lies

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:58 pm 
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Sorry if this is a bit "off topic"

but I really wanted to but in here ................everything, and I mean EVERY FREAKING WORD that I used to say,,,
when I was in active addiction,,, was a LIE..........
I didnt even CARE,,,, It did NOT bother me........
I think I got SOOOO used to it, that I EVEN BELIEVED my OWN bullshit......................


anyways, MY POINT IS,,,, after starting suboxone, I promised myself, I'd stop the lying,,,,, NO MATTER WHAT....
It feels SO WRONG to lie now, it's just wierd....... Im "okay" with "little white lies" as they say I guess...
there's been a few times Ya know where the boss will ask if I can stay late
and I'll say something like, can't,,,, have plans with grandma or something like that,
and I think that's OKAY, but even then, it feels dirty and wrong...............

AFTER you tell the truth, and almost take pride in it,, NOT sure if Im using the right word here,
but you feel SO GOOD,especially when people START to believe you again, or
BELIEVE IN YOU,,,,, again.
REALLY,,,, I know it sounds corny,,, but ANY day, could be the "day you start over"
ANY DAY......................

I just feel so much better about myself, being honest. and I know my addiction will TAKE OVER again, if I started
lying agian. I would ALMOST go as far as to say, i was a compulsive liar,,,
I just couldnt STOP............
seriously!!!!

anyways, I dont know if I made ANY SENSE at all, but I would love it, if other people could feel like I do,
on this subject......
its just ONE of the many things suboxone, has helped me be able to change :wink:


[marq=right]**********HAPPY THANKSGIVING**********[/marq]

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:50 pm 
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Well said amber telling the truth is the biggest step in your recovery! That's what I meant about he needs to tell your Dr the truth so he can actually help you but when he only knows lil tid bits of what's going on and I'm sure you only tell him the good so he can't really do anything for you! Also once you start telling the truth it starts to transfer to your every day life on top of it. Like you amber my recovery really took off once I started telling my Dr the truth. But what really help me was telling my counselor the truth.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:22 pm 
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I didn't read all of this thread so I'm sorry if some of what I'm going to say has been said or if some of it is not doable for whatever reason. It would seem to me that if someone can't avoid justifying and rationalizing use because of pain, anxiety, etc WHILE they are still on some amount of buprenorphine, their chances don't seem great that they won't experience pain, boredom, anxiety, whatever when they get off buprenorphine and that will leave them in a more dangerous place when they do (more than likely, but nothing is 100%) eventually relapse. If it were me, I'd tell my Doctor that I have been taking more buprenorphine than I am prescribed which has left me feeling like I am riding the rollorcoster of active addiction. I would either stay on a maintenence dose for a longer peroid of time or do an extremely slow taper if that is something I HAD to do. I don't get the logic that one feels as though they need to taper off buprenorphine within some arbitrary time that is less than indefinate. Best of luck, I know from experience that lying just compounds everything.

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 Post subject: Re: Choces
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:47 pm 
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ReRaise wrote:
Be adamant and say look I am tapering too fast and I am afraid that I may use


This should do it


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:04 am 
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Thanks people for youe replies!!
i came to this forum bc when i stopped using i pretty much ditched all my "friends" who use.
I dont even tell anyone in NA im on sub's bc they think that is still using, the ones I have told.
It's now saturday. I have enough until monday. It just makes me freak the F out to take less than I need bc then I start having panick attacks from thinking about running out. I'd rather just take a whole pill than split it up.

What I was thinking is calling my doc monday and just saying "look i messed up, been having a lot of anxiety pain and stress right now, and I have been taking more than prescribed and now I am all out"

I guess he will either say come in, bitch me out & right me a new script, or tell me find a new doc...

I have been considering Methadone for some time now. I know it is a lot harder to get off. But what if my doc says no more scripts?
Then I'll get on methadone for a while I guess. Until I'm ready to quit that, then find another sub doc.
I am lucky he gives me subutex, but its bc I dont have ins. and I was on suboxone for 6 months with clean piss tests 1st, then i got subutex. I never shot up any way. Just snorted Oxy-Anything

Ugh Im scared. I want to be on 2 a day. Some days I only need 1, some 1 & 1/12 some 2.
But then I would have some extra. But he wants me to get off this. But I think its better for me to just stay on it for a long time. Im not ready to get off of it. I hate confrontation, but I am not gonna lie to him either. I guess I'll hafta deal w the consequences, and if thats him telling me no, then I'll hafta deal with it...

Am I allowed to go to the methadone clinic & get subutex from there untill my next Dr Appt??


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:52 am 
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Hello, again.....


Look, If you don't like confrontation, why don't you write him a letter and take it down there to his office?????

OR make and appt and take your letter with you there............
I did that alot, before , when I had pretty much NO confidence, and I would get ALL worked up over anything, really....




And about the methadone, it's either one or the other........ Methadone stays in your system a LONG time too,
YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE GOING BACK and forth between methadone and sub.........
I went from methadone TO suboxone, and let's just say it was NO walk in the park.... I think going FROM sub to methadone, is
more "doable"

your dosing would be MUCH MORE CONTROLLED, though.


THE "pill=reward" thinking is VERY hard to break,,,,,YES

IF you can tough it out though,,, a week to 10 days, that's about what it took for ME, that it seemed to get
a WHOLE LOT EASIER......................

what I found was that distraction was the KEY .................

Now, I don't think there IS ANYTHING WRONG with wanting to be on subutex/suboxone for a long period of time.....
this is a deadly "'disorder'' or whatever you want to call it, , , even MORE deadly for opiate addicts. (at least it seems that way)

thing is, runing out of your perscription early every month, is NOT going to be a help to you.......
You need to tell you doctor just what you wrote, here.......

Ugh Im scared. I want to be on 2 a day. Some days I only need 1, some 1 & 1/12 some 2.
But then I would have some extra. But he wants me to get off this. But I think its better for me to just stay on it for a long time. Im not ready to get off of it. I hate confrontation, but I am not gonna lie to him either. I guess I'll hafta deal w the consequences, and if thats him telling me no, then I'll hafta deal with it...


Now, if your dosing for pain at all,,,,,, you can split your pills in half and take 4mg a couple times a day, that would make your RX last a whole lot longer.........
I don't have insurance either, so Im paying about $7.50 each suboxone film.
I tried the subutex a long time ago, BUT , here they are only $1.50 or so cheaper EACH,
and I actually needed MORE subutex, I felt they didnt last nearly as long.........
not worth the cost to ME........

if your NOT dosing for pain, I would REALLY TRY to get your doses to one in the morning, one at night at the VERY LEAST...
Now, I know thats a whole lot easier said than done,
but even I've done it, when low on $$$
AND, keeping YOURSELF BUSY is a HUGE HELP........


I hope at least some of this, makes sense

http://www.suboxonetalkzone.com/size-matters/
Here's a short article the suboxdoc wrote on generic bupe, and absorbtion,,, and hit a little on the pill=reward topic.

I DO HOPE you can things worked out.... Maybe you should start to look for a doctor that
agrees with maintenance, if your current one doesn't...........

If you need some links to search for doctors, just ask.....
If you can think of anything else that might be helpful,,, just ask :wink:

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its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:17 pm 
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The other thing is that I take Dilantin everyday, bc I have had seizures from w/d's both from opiates benzos, but it started from abusing cocaine & extasy.

I know I've read that Bupe doesnt work as well with Dilantin. I never told my Doc I take Dilantin bc I have had issues with Docs prescribing me meds bc of the siezures. I havent had a seizure in over a year & the last time I had a seizure before that was 3yrs. But I need to be on the dilantin, if anything just to make me feel comfortable that I wont sieze. My neurologist said I can wean off it, but if I feel comfortable taking it with no side effects, I can stay on dilantin if I want, and I choose to stay on it. Having seizures really messes things up. I tend to dislocate my shoulder when I seize also, that would not be good on Subs bc I need consices sedation at the ER to put it back in.

He's gonna be pissed I didnt tell him about the Dilantin but it seems to be affecting me. And also Like I said, I dont want to wean off the Sub's its just a lot easier for me to stay on a dose of it while I get my shit together. I'm not even working right now, so going to interviews feeling like shit bc I'm tapering isnt gonna cut it.

I wonder if I should tell him about the Dilantin. I know 100% its not a dangerous combo, just that it makes Bupe work less so.

But yeah I'm just gonna call tomorrow, I know I will speak to a nurse, she will say hold on while she talks to the doc, and then either the doc will be on the phone or they will say to come in... If they say come in I will be getting bitched at but walk out with a script, they cant charge me $130 to tell me go find another doc. But if they say find another doc, I guess I will have to find one, but I will have to be in withdrawls again for them to treat me right?


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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