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 Post subject: How do i start?
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 1:13 pm 
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I am a heroin and pill addict and been battling this demon for most of my life.I am back doing H again and i'm getting so disgusted with it and myself for starting up again.I been sniffing and IVing H again for about 8 months.Now i am just sniffing the H.I have(20) suboxone pills that i got a few months back.I need to stop and get clean,it is getting totally out of contol.It makes me sick when i think of all the money i wasted.It is like i just can't stop sniffing the H,from the moment i wake up.I hope it is a good sign that i am getting disgusted with myself,maybe it's the beginning of getting and staying clean.I really will appreciate anyones help on here as to how to do the 20 suboxone pills.Any advice will be greatly appreciated.Thanks.


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 Post subject: Induction
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 2:10 pm 
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Hi oiler1995,

Welcome to the Suboxone forum. There are several previous H users here so I will let them give you some tips on how to induce yourself onto Sub. Do you have the 8 mg pills? Most likely you do as they are the most common to get on the street. Even though we don't advocate people buying Suboxone off the street, your life is the important thing here. Hopefully, once you're off the H and stable on Sub, you will seek out a doctor who will prescribe them to you. There is really no reason to break the law with Suboxone because it is a legal substance intended just for addicts like ourselves.

Can you tell us how much H you've been using? Obviously, the less the better it will be to induce you on Suboxone. I will wait for our members who know much more about it than I to post.

Once more, Welcome to the forum.

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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 2:36 pm 
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Thank you for answering me,appreciate it.For the last few months i been sniffing about 2 to 3 bundles aday.Yes,i have the 8mg orange pills that have N8 on them.I am really scared to go even one day without it as i fear the withdrawels.I am hoping with the 20 suboxones that i have,i can do some kind of withdrawel free quick plan,as i don't want to use suboxone long term as i heard it is addictive and you will have withdrawels from the suboxone.I am just confused and fearful.I been through opiate withdrawels many times in the past,cold turkey and i can't handle that anymore,it was a horror that lasted a long time before i felt"quote" normal.Hopefully it is a bleassing i fell upon this site,because i really need help,thanks.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 4:04 pm 
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Hi. I kinda had the same plan as you, wanting to do a quick detox with suboxone because I didn't want it to become another addiction. That plan changed though. After being on sub a couple weeks I realized that this was something I needed to be on for quite a while longer. My problem was oxycodone, not heroin so I can't say I know exactly how you feel. I just know that after starting the sub it was such a relief not to be obsessing over pills all the time, always thinking about when I could take another, constantly worrying about running out. I realized that I was always going to have an addiction, so why not stay on the suboxone. It's much safer. And really, it doesn't feel like addiction. You aren't constantly craving more. I dropped from 16mg a day to 8mg in the past week. And i think i actually feel better. The good thing about sub is that you can actually taper your use, to very small doses, so the withdrawal won't be as bad when you decide you want off. I could never taper my oxy use. You do have to be in mild to moderate withdrawal though, before you start the sub. You really don't want to precipitate withdrawal by taking it too soon. If possible, you should try and find a sub doctor to help you. But I know that isn't possible for everyone. I'm new here and I've only been on sub for about four months, so I'm sure someone more experienced than me can give you better advice. I just wanted to show you some support, since it wasn't that long ago that I was feeling the same way you are. Good luck. I hope everything works out for you :-)


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 4:32 pm 
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Thank you for your support Kiddy,hope all goes well for you.


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 10:57 pm 
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Just wanted to wish you luck. I have never done heroin, but I don't think I was far from it when I got help. If you look around the forum, there is a lot of good advice on rapid tapers, can't guarantee you won't have withdrawals, but done correctly it won't be near what we addicts fear.

Good luck, keep us updated. Once you get started on the path to clean, your whole perspective will change.

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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 3:42 am 
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Thanks honeybun for you're support.I know with a rapid detox from the 20 subs I have,I may go through the withdrawal.And of course that's the scarey part.I have done it in the past cold turkey from pills,methadone and H cold turkey and made it through without going back to the drugs.But as everybody who detoxed before the withdrawals were a horror for me I would of rather been dead.The worst part of the withdrawals for me was the severe insomnia,I think I didn't sleep for a month,snakes crawling in my legs,hot and cold spells.It is just mind boggling we know what the end results will be and we still go back to the opiate use,not thinking what is waiting for us when we can't get access to any no more,but we use anyway,that's the sickening power of addiction.Hoping to still get some info on how to start off my first day of subs with the 20 I have.All I know is that you should be clean at least 24-48 hours before you take the suboxon or you will spiral into severe withdrawel,very scary.Thanks everyone.


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 8:47 am 
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Hey Oiler.

How long you need to stop using for before induction depends a lot on how much you were using. I'm not from your part of the world, so I'm unfamiliar with how pure your supply was, or even how much a bundle weighs. Just to be cautious, I'd give yourself 24 hours before dosing. Some people can manage 12-18 hours, but the reality is the longer you wait the better. Ideally if you can wait 6-7 days, you won't even need to resort to sub!

Something that you can do to make it easier is do a test dose. This can help you gauge whether you're ready to induce or not. ie hang out for as long as possible, then take just a tiny bit of one of those 8mg tabs. Try and only take about 1mg. Then listen to your body - has it made your withdrawal symptoms better or worse? If it relieves your withdrawal, it's a sign that you're ready. If it makes your withdrawal feel worse and you start to feel jittery, then hold off a few hours before you take more. Symptoms of precipitated withdrawal are similar to withdrawal, but it also has a real speedy jittery feel to it.

The idea of a test dose is to ease yourself onto Sub rather than take a whole lot and possibly end up paying for it.

As for the rapid detox idea ... Been there done that a few times. 20 x 8mg Subs will be heaps more than what you'll likely need. You only need enough Sub to last you a few days. Use the Sub only to relieve your H withdrawal symptoms. Don't look at it as a replacement drug. View it as an aid to relieve withdrawals. If you take the Sub for more than a few days, you'll begin to become dependent on Suboxone, so only take for as long as you need to relieve the H withdrawal.

All said and done, home detoxes don't work UNLESS you're ready to put in the work to stay clean. I'd definitely look at getting some kind of help to give you a leg-up into recovery. Rehab, counselling, meetings, getting a new phone number etc. You can't just take Sub for a lil while and expect everything to be okay.

Also, there's no way to do detox pain-free. Detox isn't fun. Sub can make it a bit easier, but it won't make you feel like you're stoned. If it does, you're taking too much.


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 10:51 am 
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Do you have anyone that you trust that can help you? My doctor gave me my script, well actually gave it to my husband, and told him to make sure I waited 24 hours before taking it. After 8 hours I started feeling the first signs of withdrawal. I didn't start complaining until 12 hours. At 16 hours I started begging, had the COWS scale pulled up on my tablet, showing my husband how I had all the necessary signs of at least moderate withdrawal. He still refused. At 20 hours I was thrashing around from RLS, sweating through multiple pairs of clothes, yet freezing cold...you know, all the usual fun stuff. At 22 and a half hours I told my husband, that was it. I literally couldn't take another minute and he finally gave in. About 15 minutes or so after taking my first dose, I felt almost 100% better. It was amazing. And I know it's because I waited so long, until I was really truly in hell. If it had been just me on my own, I probably would have taken it after 12 hours. And I'm pretty sure that would have been a really bad idea. As bad as I felt at 12 hours, it was nowhere near as bad as I felt at 22 hours. After feeling good for over a year and a half straight, my brain was used to exaggerating every little ache and pain. As addicts, we're very good at convincing ourselves of things, just to get what we want. So unless you have crazy strong willpower, which I sure as hell don't, I would suggest getting a trusted friend or relative to help you through your induction. I just know how hard it is to wait, and I'd really hate to hear that you had a bad experience from taking it too soon.


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 6:55 pm 
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Thanks Kitty,for that info.How much sub did you take at the 22 and a half hours,that made you feel better.How long, often and amounts did you dose with subs to get over the horrible hump of withdrawel? Thanks again.


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 7:13 pm 
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I also have a bunch of 2mg xanax bars.Is it ok to take any amount of xanax while inducting subs? Because from prior experience the worst withdrawel symptom for me from opiate's is severe insomnia.I don't want to abuse the xanax either as i know how easily i become dependent.I sure have that sick addictive personnality.Thank you to everyone who has been posting to my post helping me,i appreciate it very much and i hope everyone going through the horrors or withdrawels,may it end soon and lead to a happy and content life and to be proud of ourselves.We deserve it.


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 9:55 pm 
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I took a whole 8mg film for my first time, although I had a very hard time with it, probably spitting out about half of it. It took me a while to get used to the whole sublingual thing. About 12 hours later I took half a film, so 4 mg. My doctor prescribes me 16mg a day, but it took me til about a week ago to realize that I didn't need that much. Now I'm only taking 8mg, four months after starting. If I were you, I'd start small, maybe 2mg, see how you feel, then take 2 more, etc. until you feel better. It's better to start as small as possible if you don't plan to be on it very long. I split my dose into three, because of my back pain. The pain relieving aspect only lasts about 6 hours. I really can't tell you how long to take it, as I decided to be on it long term. The one somewhat major side effect I've had is that it makes me sleepy, which is pretty common when you first start sub. I was taking Xanax when I first went to my sub doctor and he made me switch to klonopin. Said it was less addictive. I've never had a benzo problem, I just find that the klonopin makes me super tired, where the Xanax didn't. From what I understand, it should be alright to take small amounts of Xanax with the sub. As small as you possibly can, and only when you really need it. I take between .5 and 1mg of klonopin a day. High amounts of benzo's mixed with sub can be pretty dangerous. This is all just my opinion and experience. It makes me nervous that you're doing this without a doctor, so please be very careful. Sub is a lot stronger than people realize.


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 4:28 am 
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Thank you very much Kitty.Where i live it's hard to find a sub doctor.I feel right now by learning all i can from this forum and other info about subs that i google,i am getting more information then a doctor can give me.There is no better doctor for me then learning from you guys on this forum,that are going through it.Alot of doctors seem to overprescribe.Like you said you didn't need 16mg's of sub's a day.Plus i don't want to go to a sub doctor, as i can't let my family catch on that i'm drugging again.I put them through enough years of hell with my addiction.I don't know how your doctor could say klonopin is less addictive then xanax.In my opinion that is a bunch of crap.Not to scare you but a few years ago i had a really really bad habit with klonopin and i was taking like 12mg's aday enough to put a horse in a coma.It was very addictive for me.All i'm saying is be careful with the klonopin.The klonopin seems to be fine for you,so that is great.I've learned so much from this forum and other info on the computer,which is a good thing for me to learn as much as i can before inducting for the first time.Like you said and someone before you start off small.I heard a little sub goes a long way and subs are very very strong?I guess the film is the same as the orange pill just a differant form?I have 2 bundles left which is 20 bags of H.I am praying to god that this will be the last of it,so tired and disgusted.Sounds like your doing well Kitty,keep on moving forward,thanks.


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 8:32 am 
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Xanax is fine to take during induction on Sub. As far as I know there's no direct interaction between the two. Whether an addict should take Xanax at all is another thing altogether.

If you're concerned about withdrawal and really need a benzo, Valium would be a better option because it has less potential for addiction. It also helps more with the muscle aches than other benzos. But personally I don't think you will need to take benzos to aid with your induction at all. I'd only resort to it if you suffer from precipitated withdrawal. If the induction is smooth, don't take em. And ask yourself whether you need it, orwant it.


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 11:58 am 
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I've gotta admit, you're probably right about the whole doctor thing. I pretty much lost all faith in my doc after my last appointment. I've been telling him every visit since I started sub how extremely tired it's making me. I've caught myself nodding out on my drive home from work, that's how bad it's been. So finally he tells me I'm depressed and prescribed me wellbutrin. Said it was an antidepressant that would give me energy. Not once has he ever suggested lowering my sub dose. So anyway, I got home and researched Wellbutrin, and it's known for giving energy, suppressing appetite, increasing sex drive, reducing cigarette cravings, in addition to helping with depression. Sounded perfect to me. So far after almost six weeks the only thing it's done is given me no appetite. So I've lost the few pounds I put on when first starting sub. It has made my tinnitus twice as bad, which is driving me pretty crazy, but I'm going to stick it out a few more weeks. It can take up to 8 weeks to work, so I still have hope. Anyway, about my doctor. At my appointment 2 weeks ago, as soon as I sit down he tells me my urine test came up positive for amphetamines. I asked if the Wellbutrin could cause that, he says absolutely not. Warns me if it happens again he can't treat me anymore. It was kinda a breaking point for me. I started crying, hyperventilating even. Pretty embarrassing. He just sat there and watched me and said maybe it was a lab error. Gave me my scripts and said hopefully it doesn't happen again. It upset me so much because I'd been so tired I could barely function, and he was telling me I was on speed. I get home and look online, tons of links about Wellbutrin causing false positive for amphetamines. Apparently it's a well known thing. As a psychiatrist, I find it impossible to believe he didn't know that. If he didn't, how good of a doctor is he? And if he did know it, and didn't say anything, even after watching me break down, he must just be an asshole. So either way, I kinda lost all respect for him after that. But I have to stick with him because he takes my insurance. And he works around me and my husband's work schedules, since I can't drive an hour's distance. So, like you, I decided I'd get my information from this forum, learn from everyone else's experience. The only reason I kept bringing up doctors is because I worry. Not so much about myself, but other people. That's just how I am. Like TeeJay said, with the Xanax, I'd only take it if you really need it. I take the klonopin for my anxiety disorder. And I actually took less when I first started the sub, because the sub was extremely sedating for the first couple days. But everyone's different, so who knows. When do you plan on doing your induction?


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 12:09 pm 
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Thanks Kitty for that info.I plan on inducting when i am 24 hours at least.I think i will start with 2mg and go from there.Hopefully i won't need all 20 sub pills that i have.


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 12:52 pm 
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Well, good luck and keep us updated. I know how hard that 24 hours is. What helped me was going online, on FB, and complaining to my friends. They were so supportive and just helped me get through each hour at a time. If you want to come here and just vent or whatever, it might help. Just having people encourage you and being there to listen can be really helpful, at least it was for me. I'll be here to support you, if you want. I check in often. I'm on vacation from work for the next week and can't really do much because of my back. So I'll be here for encouragement if you need it. :-)


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 2:27 pm 
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Thank you very much Kitty.24 hours is a horror with nothing.Right now i can't even seem to stay away from it for 4 hours.I have to use alot of willpower and rough it out until 24 hours clean.I have just 3 bags of H left that i will do in the morning,and hope to go 24 hours clean to start out with just 2 mg's of subs.I need to get rid of my dealer's number in my cell phone,that should be the first thing.It is convenient for me having a delivery service.Part of my disease doesn't want me to delete the number,it is totally insane.


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 3:08 pm 
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The one good thing for me is that I only got my oxy from the doctor. However I was seeing two doctors and getting a script from each for over a year and a half. In January a pharmacist finally realized what I'd been doing and notified my doctor. I have to assume that he, in turn, notified my pain management doctor. So my supply was abruptly cut off. I've never bought from the street and would have no idea how to go about that, not that my husband would have allowed it. So suboxone was my only option. I couldn't just quit, because I do honestly have back issues, and need some kind of pain medicine to make it through work. The bad thing for me was that I lost my family doctor, that I had been seeing for over 20 years. He sent me a letter dismissing me. That's one of the things I'm most ashamed of. He was a great doctor who trusted me, and I completely betrayed that trust. He's also my husband's doc, and my parents doc, and my sister's doc. My parents still don't know that I was dismissed and I'm too ashamed to tell them. But at least I don't have any temptation, because all my sources are gone. You need to delete that number. You know that. If not, 6 or 7 hours in, it will be too easy to call him. You'll tell yourself, this will be the last time, and it never will be. I told myself for a year that I was going to stop getting that second script. But I always came up with a reason to wait. Work is busy, I'll stop next month. It's the holidays, I'll wait another month. My birthday is this month, I don't want to feel shitty for my birthday, I'll just wait one more month...etc...it was just too easy. Get rid of his number. Screen your phone calls. Those 24 hours are going to be HARD. You're going to get desperate. You've gotta get rid of as much temptation as possible. But I'm sure you know that. Now you've gotta just take that step and actually do it.


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 6:27 pm 
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I know what you mean i will stop next time,this is the last one.When this runs out i will quit.Your right there never is a last time until you actually take the steps.I am going to delete my dealers number,it is so hard but i have to.


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