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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 8:00 pm 
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Did you delete it yet?


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 11:38 pm 
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Kitty has been giving you some good advice! Delete that number!!!!

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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:30 am 
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Hey Oiler. Just checking in. Everything ok? Give me an update when you can.


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 1:38 pm 
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Hey oiler, how are you holding up now?

I just wanted to chime in because i found sub almost the same way you did. I did not have a doctor, my doc was opana or oxy in any form whatever i could get, but opana was always my fave. I tried heroin a couple times, i always snorted it ive never ivd anything, but a baggie or 2 of heroin never really touched my opana wd, oxymorphone is stroooooong stuff imo.

The guidelines of 24-48 hours of sub is there, because one the halflife of all different opiates vary, and 2 each individual will have different metabolism rates at which there body eliminates each drug. some are fast some are slower. Oxymorphone has a pretty strong halflife so i waited about 16 hours, made sure i was in cold sweats and my pupils were big again. I started with 2mg and that took my wd away for the most part but i still had cravings so i took 2mg more. I think youve already got some great advice about inducting from Kitty and teejay. And i agree with them about the benzos as well, dont use them unless you really NEED too. If you are gonna follow through with the rapid sub detox instead of long term sub...you could just save the benzos for your final jump off sub and for the sub wd.

I hope your doing okay now, i wish i would have found your thread earlier. please give us an update as soon as you can!


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 1:47 pm 
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I cannot for the life of me figure out how to edit a post. maybe its because im on my phone. i made a typo at the top of my last post. it was meant to say i didnt have a DOCTOR not that i didnt have a HABIT. i think was trying to say both that i didnt have a doctor and i didnt have a herion habit specifically and it came out jumbled lol


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 4:10 pm 
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Thank you everyone for all this advice and knowledge.I got desperate last night as i was scared that i have hardly no bags of H left and called my dealer and got more.I am so sick of myself.What i'm trying to do is get 24 hours clean with the H in hand and start the subs and if the subs don't work at least i have the H.That is what is going through my mind.I'm scared if the subs don't work,i won't have any H to fall upon.I have to try not to touch the H for 24 hours,so i can start with 2mg's of sub,like suggested and hope i don't have to resort back to my H.This is one sick vicious cycle and revolving door that i chose to get back into.I wish i never picked up again.I wish there wasn't a waiting period for the sub's but there is and i got to do my best to get 24 hours clean.I don't know if i can do it, knowing i have H in hand.I am just so confused and scared of the withdrawel from opiates again.I can say again a thousand times.Thanks for the support.


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 5:43 pm 
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Oiler, when it is said too wait 24-48 hours before inducting on sub, those are just guidelines. Because the halflife of different opiates vary widely. A person who is switching from methadone to sub should wait a couple day because the halflife is sooo looong. So remember, its not really about waiting a certain amount of hours, its more about how much wd your in. those numbers are just guidelines. If your in mild wd, watery eyes, sneezing, mild anxiety then wait a little longer. If your wds are more severe as in, cold sweats, rls, diareah then you should be okay to take the sub. Remember the numbers are just guidelines because some people metabolise drugs quicker than others, and some drugs have a long halflife, but what matters most is the severity of your wd. It seems like you have a pretty big habit, so just make sure you are really in wd and not just tricking yourself into thinking your in wd. Hope that helps some. Maybe after you see how sub works, you can look into getting a doctor if you think you need maintence to get your head screwed on straight before you decide to drop opiates all together. Whatever you decide were here to help you :-) i hope everything goes smoothly with your induction!


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 6:29 pm 
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Yes,i have a very big habit.I sniff 5 bags of H just to feel normal in the morning when i wake up.It's not about getting high for me anymore,it's just a matter of not getting sick and just to feel normal.On most days i get severe moodswings.Sometimes i get very depressed,that's just a reason to just sniff more H.It's contolling my whole life.I am always planning,do i have enough to get me through tommorrow.It's a terrible way to live.I also have an extremely high tolerance.The H i'm getting is not the best,so i guess having a big habit and the quality have most to do when it comes out your system.I'm sure heavylly cut,low quality H,will leave your system faster then good H.the money over the last year that i wasted is mind boggling.I try not to think about it as it gets me more depressed.I'm sitting here depressed and my connection is driving a new car that i bought him,isn't that lovely.can you find out how long you should be clean from H before induction,i would appreciate that,thanks.


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 7:01 pm 
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What i DO know about h is that it has a relativly low half life compared to alot of other extended release opiates or long acting ones like methadone. Thats why you need to keep doing the h all day to stay normal feeling because of the half life. And i find that when you use something long enough and your body gets used to it, you metabolise it more quickly. Just remember its not really about trying to make it to a certain hour, its about the severity of your wd. If your in a more severe wd that means theres not enough drug in you system to satisfy your opiate receptors. Once enough of your receptors are free the drug they will be available to accept the buprenorphine and make you feel better. Theres not really a magic number your trying to get to, if your in real wds and they are moderate to severe then the buprenorphine can do its magic on those hungry receptors. If you start small like we said 2mg you should be ok. Thats a quarter of an 8 mg pill. Wait an hour after you take it to see how you feel, if you still feel pretty crappy then take another 2mg and repeat that process until you feel normal. By taking it in small doses and waiting until your in a severe enough wd, you should be able to escape any percipitated wd sypmtoms.

When i first started taking sub i still messed around. Im not proud i did it, but i did. I went back and fourth with full agonist drugs and then back to sub probably a handfull of times before i really started to get my shit together. Do ive had quiye a few inductions everytime i followed the same guidelines that i explained to you earlier and ive never had a percipatated wd that whole time.


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 7:06 pm 
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Hey oiler, it's good to hear from you. I was getting a little worried. I know I said it before, but I really don't think you can move on until you delete that phone number. Your first step was realizing you'd had enough, and wanting to get help. Your next big step is to cut off your access. If not, you're just going to keep repeating this cycle. If you can hold out long enough and be in at least moderate withdrawal, the sub should work. 2mg might not be enough, but if that's the case, just keep taking a little more until you feel better. Once you take the sub, it takes about 15 minutes or so to feel relief(at least for me). I think the more severe withdrawal you are in, the more relief you will feel. Like BD said, 24 hours is just a guideline. I waited 22 and a half just to be safe, but I probably would have been ok at 16 hours. I was getting into pretty severe withdrawal when I took the sub. I really don't think it's a good idea to try to withdrawal with H on hand. You're going to start feeling desperate and you won't be able to help using. We're addicts. If we had that kind of willpower we wouldn't be in this kind of situation. You need to get rid of the H, delete that number, and just grit your teeth and wait it out. It's going to suck. You know that going in. But I'm sure you've been through worse. Just tell yourself that this could be the last time you have to go through this. Remind yourself why you're doing this. Tell yourself that this could be saving your life. Call someone you trust just to bitch and complain. Come on here and tell us what you're going through. We've all been there, so maybe we can help. That's what got me through it. I went online almost every hour, and vented about how bad I felt and how I couldn't take it. I kept saying that I couldn't do it. And my friends supported me and encouraged me and it made me feel more accountable. If I failed, I'd be letting them down. Just do anything you think will work. There's no way to do this pain free. But 20 hours or so is nothing compared to the rest of your life. You have to really want to quit though. Do you truly want to quit? If so, then you can do it. I know you can!

I just did a little searching online and everywhere I read said 12 hours Minimum for heroin, 24 hours is optimal. One guy said he was doing 5 bags a day, waited 24 hours, took 2mg of sub and felt 75% better. After taking 2mg more he felt 99% better. That's just an example of one person, but I thought it might be helpful.


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 8:09 pm 
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Oiler i just thought to tell you that maybe the best way for you to induct on the sub would be to do it in the afternoon. Finish the rest of you H at night time and then during sleep you will have already knocked 8 hours or so of waiting time, when you wake up you will probably be in some kind of wd. Then wait a couple hours until you cant take it anymore and then you shoulf be fine to induct.

I know you a tired of living this life...all the worries of "am i gonna have enough" or "where am i gonna get money". Most of us have been there and done that. Sub has saved alot of us from having to live that life and has allowed us some stability in our lives. Yes we are still using an opiate, but this particular opiate is unique in that it allows us to live a life without all the ups and downs, and you can actually taper sub. You can use it as a quick detox tool, but maybe you would benefit from sub therapy.


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 8:57 pm 
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Oiler,

I've been where you are. It's so hard to make the final transition from H to sub. Essentially, you have to choose the non-instant gratification choice but it's well worth it in the end. The beginning jump to sub isn't all that easy for some people but once you stabilize, you have no idea how easy it is to turn your life around. You won't even be thinking of H once you're stabilized on suboxone, it truly is a gift. I hope you're able to make the transition. Don't worry about all those small 'what ifs'.. just do t and don't look back. If you don't succeed the first time, try again. It'll be the best choice you ever made.

BeautifulDisaster is right, last dose of H should be at night to give you that head start while you're sleeping. Good luck!


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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 6:10 am 
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Yes,it is hard to make that transition from the H to the subs.It sounds like a good idea to finish off my H before bed and not have any around.Like you said i will have those hours of sleep added up.I have a very very high tolerance.Do you think i should start out with 4mg's instead of 2? I read alot about people starting out at 4mg's.Also if the sub is going to be effective how long does it take to feel the relief?Like i said i have 20 8mg sub pills.I don't want to stay on it long term,just hoping the 20
will get me through the withdrawel process.I am glad i bought them awhile back as a safety zone.I don't want to go through the withdrawel of getting off subs either,that's why i am hoping a short sub detox will make me feel normal again.I don't want my family to know what is going on either as i been able to hide my addiction from them. I want to be able to say goodbye to opiate's forever and get my butt back to N.A meeting and stay around the winners for support.I am happy to hear that the sub's are a miracle pill for alot of you people.Thanks.


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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 9:18 am 
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Hey oiler, i dont think it would be a problem if you wanted to start out with 4mg indtead of 2. It might even be bettet because of your high tolorance. For me it usually takes about an hour to feel relief from sub, however some feel it quicker like kitty above takes about 15 mins. Once you induct, i think you will be pretty surprised at how well sub takes care of wd. I think your gonna be just fine when you induct. And theres a few stories around here from people who used sub as a detox tool. One of them is still clean now almost 10 months latet. his screenname is seaonasdad so maybe if you find time check out his story and ill let you know of any others i come across. You can do this oiler! Just get rid of that dealers number and start your sub detox. Im rooting for ya!


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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 9:25 am 
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I think it depends how long you're able to hold out. If you can stick out the 24 hours and are in pretty decent withdrawal, 4mg should ok. Oxy and H are both short acting opiates and I took 8mg after 22 and a half hours. But I was also positive that I was almost in severe withdrawal. If you don't wait long enough and only think your withdrawal is bad, taking too much sub can cause precipitated withdrawal. And once that happens, I don't think you can do anything other than wait it out. If you start off small, you can always take more. There's really a lot of factors that play into it, and you'll be the only one who will know how you're feeling, how long you've waited etc. That's just my opinion. Either way, be careful, good luck, and I'll try to help you in whatever small way I can. Maybe someone else will have better advice. I can only compare you to my personal experience and I don't know if that's helpful or not.


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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 3:57 pm 
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Well everyone,i got rid of my connections phone number.It is so insane how hard it was to hit that delete number in my cell phone.It just makes you realize even more how much control and power this addiction has on us.When i finish the H that i have,i will try to give it my all and try to get to 24 or so hours or when i really feel moderate to severe withdrawel setting in.I have such a high tolerance that sometimes i can't even sleep,doing the H.I guess opiate addiction after awhile gives you problems with sleep and i know that withdrawel,no sleep is number one for my symptoms.Years ago when i went cold turkey i don't think i slept in weeks and having restless legs that i shake to try to get rid of it.Even taking some xanax on top of the H i can't sleep,especially today.Well here goes the battle again like many times in the past.If i get through this,i have to remember don't pick up the first one no matter what.I am tired of having my life going down hill.I also been having mood swings lately also.When i'm depressed,i don't even have the drive or energy to tie my sneakers.My natural chemicals in my brain must be in chaos from this run of drugging and i know it's a waiting game to get back to feeling normal and hopefully the subs will make it less painfull.


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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 7:38 pm 
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Congrats on deleting the number. Now you've got to just tough it out and hopefully start the sub soon. Wishing you the best of luck, and just try to keep reminding yourself why you're doing this. You can do it!!


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 1:55 am 
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Way to go, Oiler! Proud of ya! Deleting your dealer is a big step.

Amy

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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 5:09 am 
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I just woke up and it's 5 am.My last use of H was about 5 last night.So right there I know I can remain clean for 12 hours,which is a good jump start.Withdrawels when I got up this morning was very minor if any softer bowl movement,sorry to sound disgusting,but it is what it is.A bit of an upset stomach and that's it.I been having vivid nightmares the last 2 nights,maybe it is from the Xanax on top of the H to get to sleep.I usually take a max of 2 Mg's of Xanax at any one time.I have to be careful with it as I know I can easily get severely addicted to that stuff and benzo withdrawel isn't no fun.Done a taper from klonopin years ago a it was a horror.And there is no medication like subs for opiates for benzo's.Like I said the H use to make me sleep and nod but no more,I guess because my tolerance got so high.Scared,but I can't wait to take my first induction of sub.Another question? If I start with say 4mg's of sub,how long is the life span of subs until I have to take again? Or is there no time,just take again when you feel Withdrawels symptoms kicking in? Thank everybody for your help and concern,so grateful I fell upon this site.


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 8:00 am 
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Great job so far! Once you play around and figure out what dose works for you, you're really only supposed to dose once a day. They say that's to help get rid of addictive patterns. I dose three times a day. Not because I feel withdrawal kicking in, but because of pain. Sub only gets rid of pain for about 6 hours. I'm really not sure how your dosing would go, since you only want to use it for a short time. You might want to do some research and see how others used it for a quick taper. Please be careful with the Xanax. That would be a pretty high dose to take along with sub. I truly don't think you'll need that once you start the sub. Right now you should be at around 15 hours! Way to go! You're almost there! :-)


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