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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:51 am 
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Hey mouse,

Glad you're feeling better. I've got a feeling you won't be able to donate your expired opiates. You might have to flush them. I've read about that issue ...countries with no opiates for people, unless they're rich of course. Too terrible to contemplate.

Maybe you could give a call to the red cross or doctors without borders or something along those lines and ask them in order to be sure.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:08 am 
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Hey all,

Looks like NO controlled meds can be donated in any state. For non controlled, lots of other restrictions: for many states it may never be in possession of an individual, must be unopened, unexpired and only certain types. For example a nursing home may be able to donate unused unopened unexpired cancer meds.
http://www.ncsl.org/research/health/sta ... cling.aspx And putting controlled meds in the mail to ship overseas exposes you to real legal issues. Check w an attorney before attempting!!

As to Rule's earlier no flushing comment, I agree w the no flushing and prefer you take them into a pharmacy to destroy! For your protection, make sure labels are torn off. I was shocked tho, I learned when researching this prior to my initial post, the FDA says opiates are part of a small number of medicines that if can't give back to a pharmacy, the next option is to flush them bc the risk of accidental overdose is higher than risk to environment/people that may come from flushing.
http://www.fda.gov/drugs/resourcesforyo ... Flush_List

And yes, I was surprised and shocked bc it IS a big risk to water supply. Perhaps cities have their own rules against flushing?? Like Rule said, ask any pharmacy how to get rid of them. I had no issues dropping mine off at my pharmacy. Actually, the head pharmacist said, it was getting extremely painful filling my scripts and was so relieved to see me return a bunch and to know I started bup and was in recovery. Best, P

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:24 pm 
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Bk in my using days, if I'd saw a conversation like this I would have been so upset lol! I would have been like...destroy them...nooooooooo. lol I'm sorry it just took me bk to those days and what discussing how to destroy pain medicine would have done to me :)

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:23 pm 
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Well, that's basically how I feel when someone says to throw them away. I've known doctors who will repurpose meds semi-legally (e.g. an HIV doctor who goes on annual missions to sub-Saharan Africa who will take any non-controlled meds). I know at least one pain doctor who will take back controlled subs and give them to other patients. But I'd much rather them go to a country where the people otherwise can't get it.

I'm DEFINITELY not feeling OK. I'd say the buprenorphine took the edge off my suffering, but I still have a COWS score of 22 after 16 mg bupe yesterday. My pupils are so enormous I look like I've taken belladonna.
I felt no difference between 8 and 16. In fact, I'm wondering whether anything above 8 isn't just a waste for me. I'm on some other meds that inhibit the metabolism of buprenorphine so my blood levels might be higher than someone else on the same dose.

How long to re-adjust to the lower level of opiates in the brain?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:24 pm 
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And after the way the pharmacies treated me when I tried to fill my bupe script, I'm going to try to never speak to those bastards again!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:53 pm 
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Quote:
I'm DEFINITELY not feeling OK. I'd say the buprenorphine took the edge off my suffering, but I still have a COWS score of 22 after 16 mg bupe yesterday. My pupils are so enormous I look like I've taken belladonna.
I felt no difference between 8 and 16. In fact, I'm wondering whether anything above 8 isn't just a waste for me. I'm on some other meds that inhibit the metabolism of buprenorphine so my blood levels might be higher than someone else on the same dos


It sounds like your tolerance is higher than the bupe can cover at present dose.. I'd at least try 24 mg. I actually used 32 the first 3 or 4 days. My tolerance was high enough that it took me 4 days to feel completely well. But I felt better with each day. It's ok to take more, unless for some reason doctor will object.

But again, sometimes if habit large it takes a few days to stabilize. It happened to me. Wasn't fun but two months later it's a distant memory. Those few days of discomfort were so worth how I feel now!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:53 am 
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Doc said I'd determine my own dose, anywhere from 2 to 40 (or was it 30? I can't freaking remember) - she also said fuck-ups are expected, but everything I've read says there's no POINT to fucking up once you're over the ceiling dose of bupe - everything else is blocked. Not sure why anyone would try.

I went to 32 like you suggested - I can't tell any difference b/w 32 and 8, to be honest.

I'm pretty sure 8 is my ceiling (it may even be lower), esp b/c I'm on 2 meds that greatly increase buprenorphine blood concentrations (one by 70%, the other by 50-100%, if I'm remembering correctly. Not sure how they work combined, but my CYP-3A4 is strongly inhibited - that's why I waited so long to take the bupe, b/c I knew my morphine metabolism was impaired. Even though I switched to immed release morphine for the 3 days before induction, I still didn't have ANY withdrawal 18 hours after my last dose - when most ppl on morphine would feel it wearing off after 4-8 hours. Almost makes me wonder why I was getting the long-acting form of morphine)

I think tomorrow I'll try 8 - two doses of 4 - and see if it makes me feel any different. If I had insurance and if the taste of bupe didn't make me gag, I'd probably say 'fuck it, I'll just take more - no harm in taking more than the ceiling" but I'm paying $2 per pill and every dose is hell on my taste buds and stomach.

I'm still taking some 'comfort meds', btw.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:55 am 
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Is there a form of bupe, with or without naloxone, that doesn't have that awful bitter taste? I have to take anti-emetics just to keep it in my mouth. Right now I'm on plain bupe (my doc basically says the naloxone is a scam), but if the Suboxone or Zubsolv tastes less nasty, I'd almost be willing to pay more for it.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:33 am 
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knockoutmouse wrote:
Is there a form of bupe, with or without naloxone, that doesn't have that awful bitter taste? I have to take anti-emetics just to keep it in my mouth. Right now I'm on plain bupe (my doc basically says the naloxone is a scam), but if the Suboxone or Zubsolv tastes less nasty, I'd almost be willing to pay more for it.


You've got an amazing doctor. Just curious how you found her. Just luck i suppose..

I also dislike the taste of subs. I'd say one third of the time I still have nausea from it, which can last a few hours. Occasionally it's enough to put me on the verge of puking. I also don't love keeping that stuff in my mouth for so long. No way can I make it to 20 or 30 minutes. This a.m. I made it to 15, which I think is a personal best :D

My new doctor...whom I've seen twice now... also seems the cooperative type. I had to switch out of the clinic I was going to because hewouldn't write me an extra prescription while I'll be out of state. He even offered to prescribe a sleeping aid benzo, which I wouldn't get within 10 feet of (long time xanax addict years ago). But he's kind and his default position is one of trust, which is usually the opposite of the dynamic with a new addiction doc.

Keep at it, mouse. You'll get there!

Best,
Godfrey.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:51 am 
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I'd be happy to tell you more about my doc by private message, if there's a way to do that - I just don't want to say how I found her publicly (not for my own privacy, but b/c it's come to my attention that she interprets things differently than some other doctors, and I'd hate for anything to come back to bite her). But she is absolutely awesome. Not judgmental, not patronizing, and smart and funny as hell.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:56 am 
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I can also highly recommend taking Zofran (ondandsetron), either 'oral dissolving tabs' or IM shots, before the buprenorphine. It's the only way I've been able to keep it in my mouth!
Granted, I still can't get food down, so if you're at the point where you can swallow stuff without heaving, oral ondansetron pills should work fine.

I'm a bit disappointed to hear that you still gag on it after months b/c I was trying to convince myself that the gagging was temporary, due to withdrawal, and would subside once I was stabilized.

15 mins is amazing! My 4 mgs of bupe were dissolved in 3 mins, although they felt like an eternity...


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:59 am 
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Plus I'm in San Francisco. Doctors, like everything else, may just be cooler here ;-)


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:26 am 
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No worries on the doc info. I didn't mean anything specific. You're quite right not to share anything like that.
I just meant did someone recommend her or something. And yes, I bet geography has a lot to do with it.

I'm not gagging at this point. Don't worry. I just don't like holding a mouth full of saliva. I take it in the early morning and occasionally nod off and drool the crap all over myself. What a loser, eh? :D

I'll check out that med. Many thanks!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:41 am 
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Hey Knock, as I wrote yday, there are 6 or 7 different forms of medicine today.
If taste is now your biggest issue id suggest Zubslov.
This is a mint favored tablet that comes with a discount card. It is a fast absorbing product too.
It is a Buprenorphine /naloxone combination.

You may want to give it a try. Congratulations on making it over to the other side.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:23 am 
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Quote:
You may want to give it a try. Congratulations on making it over to the other side.


I both overestimated....way too much worry concerning the switch....and underestimated....the suppression of cravings is amazing...how far away the other side is.

As it turned out the jump to bupe was actually pretty painful...a few hours of PW followed by 3 days of dope sick misery...but with the help of the forum I just mainly accepted it. I honestly don't know how things would have turned out without the help of you kind people.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:50 am 
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I wouldn't say I'm on the other side yet. Today and yesterday have been miserable. Worst symptoms like bone pain are controlled, but the restlessness, nausea, inability to concentrate, shaking, crying, running nose, fever/chills, and diarrhea/cramping are still big problems. I kind of feel like the most rapid-cycling bipolar in the world - I go from utter depression/despair and laying around like a lump to (dysphoric) hypomania where I can't sit still for even a second. And I haven't slept a wink since Friday.

Thank you very much for the recommendation, razor. If the gagging and heaving last longer than a week (i.e. past the initial 'adjustment' or partial withdrawal period), I'll ask the doc for Zubsolv. The generic buprenorphine I have tastes bitter (like prednisone x 10), but with a very thin veneer of orange flavoring on top. The orange doesn't help b/c the first time I got drunk was on orange juice/vodka and ever since then even the smell of orange juice makes me vomit. Mint would be an enormous improvement, as would the faster absorption.
I don't know if any of you have been prescribed Actiq fentanyl lollipops, but they actually taste GOOD. No medicine taste at all - they taste just like a raspberry sweet tart. I wish they could make bupe taste the same way. And having the tablet on a lollipop stick makes buccal absorption so much easier b/c you can roll it around your mouth without using your tongue. I'm going to talk to the compounding pharmacy to see if they could make a similar product with buprenorphine.

Godfrey - to tell you the way I found my doctor would essentially amount to publicly revealing her identity, but she has an interesting story, so if you're curious PM me


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:53 am 
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Godfrey - did the suppression of cravings start immediately or did it only begin after a week when you were stabilized? It's weird b/c I had no drug cravings for over 20 years while I was taking my painkillers - in fact, I took far less than prescribed most of the time. But once I was in severe withdrawal I started craving like crazy. I know it takes some time to get stabilized, but if the suppression of cravings is supposed to be immediate, then this is definitely not working!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:01 pm 
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mouse, Cravings are a WD symptom. Once you're stabilized in a few days they'll trouble you know more. That I can promise.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:02 pm 
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OK, that makes me feel better. b/c it's day 3 and I still feel like shit and I'm still wishing my receptors weren't blocked so I could take my old meds and feel better. I'd say that qualifies as drug-craving!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:20 pm 
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Mouse,

So day 4, yes? I'm guessing you're feeling better. Certainly hope so.


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