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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:04 pm 
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Hello, I'm new to this forum. I've been reading alot of posts but haven't seen a answer to my question. I crossed over to Suboxone for one week and was still having a very rough time so I went back to my Norco for 3 days. Can anyone tell me how long I need to wait in hours before I go back on the Suboxone. I'm a cronic pain patiet who has never taken the meds for a high. But I'm taking way too much because of tolerance so that is why I'm crossing over to Suboxone.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:52 pm 
tenntod - Welcome to the forum and I'm sorry for your troubles. I am not a chronic pain patient, so I can't relate well to what you're going through. However, all of us here for one reason or another have decided that opiates are not working well in our lives anymore. I'm assuming you fit into that category because you started on Suboxone. In order for it to work, I think it is extremely important that you first want it to work. You've got to want to be off opiates badly enough to not only take the Suboxone as directed, but to also take other steps toward healing what has been damaged from years of opiate misuse. It is not an easy thing to do and requires committment first and foremost.
I'm not a doctor and only have 5 months of Sub use under my belt thus far but I know this stuff works! Now if you're on it as on off-label use for chronic pain I don't have much information for you and you will definitely have to go with what your doctor recommends. Whatever the indication for your being on Suboxone is - you need to contact your doctor and tell him what's going on and that you had this lapse with the Norco. Having said that - I would assume the rules would be the same as when you had your original induction onto Suboxone - approx 24 hours post your last dose of short acting opiate and at the time when you are in mild/moderate withdrawals. After three days off Sub, I would imagine that there is a good possibility that you had at least some binding of the Norco to the receptor sites in your brain which would mean that taking Sub again too soon could put you into precipitated withdrawal which from what I've heard is Hell on earth. So you don't want to take that chance. Again I'm not a doctor, not an expert, but I would err on the side of caution and wait the 24 hours.
Good luck to you. Give this your best shot and give it some time and I'll bet things will start getting better for you!
Please post again and let us know what happens. Too often folks come onto the forum, post a question, get responses and never let us know what their outcome was. And that kinda stinks because we're all here to learn from one another's experiences and to try and help one another. So please keep in touch. If we all stick around we can learn and grow together!!


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:05 am 
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hi tenntod -

I am a bit surprised that your doctor is having you go back and forth with suboxone and norco.

Here's the best scoop I can give (I'm not a doc, so certainly take their advice over this).

Norco is an immediate pain reliever. You will have blood level max hit in less than 2 hours (a half life), and has a half life about 4 hours. That is considered a short acting opiate - hydrocodone, or oxycodone (not oxycontin).

Suboxone is much different. First it takes longer to get fully up to blood level in your body. Second, it has a 37 (yes 37 hour) half life - so it takes over 1 1/2 days to be gone 1/2 from your system.

Since Suboxone is stronger at binding your opiate receptors (that block pain typically) than typical opiates - switching back to norco - unless you get say 2-3 half lives of suboxone out of your system is simply wasting the med. I hope this makes sense.

Here's the real challenge, you can search the forum or the net for with chronic pain. Depending upon your tolerance and medication type - suboxone may or may not relieve all of your withdrawal symptoms and keep your pain level down. It is also not as effective as typical opiates for pain control. There are equivalent options shown often. I think I read that if you are on methadone for pain control, you need to be on about 30mg's of that med before starting suboxone. I don't know for norco (but probably really high).

SO... suboxone is an inferior pain killer really - but terrific for those who are dependent upon opiates and want a medical tool to help them get opiates out of their lives. Suboxone has no effect (much anyway) for recreational use. It hits a ceiling level of effectiveness - and that's all you get.

Again, your doctor would be the best source. I was on about 100 mg's a day of oxycodone (considered stronger than norco mg to mg) - and I was able to have no withdrawal symptoms with 12 mg's of suboxone. I don't have pain management issues - so I can't say how to compare. I agree with setmefree - suboxone is mainly a medication for dependence - and occasionally for pain. It does help with pain - but not as well as other medications (yet it blocks the receptor).

In my opinion, switching back and forth - whether for relapse for dependent people (me) - or chronic pain people like you - is not a great idea. You would have to wait for 3 days or longer probably before norco would do any good. If you waited that long, fought through withdrawals, and then went to norco's you'd be back at square 1 - that is you would have to wait again for 12-24 hours before starting suboxone - or you would have suboxone replace the existing medication on the opiate receptors (and leaving you immediately in pain - called precipitated withdrawal - and from all I read not fun).

The easy answer is if you are going to suboxone permanently - then wait until you are in mild to medium withdrawals and start again. You'll know the withdrawal symptoms, when you are there. Leg pain, runny nose, eyes, sneezing, chills, sometimes bowel issues. Then suboxone comes onboard and you feel 'normal.' What is unknown to most of us, is what you can expect as to pain control then. Your doctor should be able to explain that for your expectations! BEST OF LUCK!


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:00 am 
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Dear setmefree & Lathedude, thank you so much for having the compassion to write what you have hear I really appreciate it. Just to give you a little background on myself. I've been on pain meds for many years because of an industrial accident where I was crushed between two pieces of heavy equipment. It re-arranged my body especially my pelvic. When I was crushed I looked down and my right foot was pointing backwards. Along with a crushed pelvic. I've turned down many stronger pain meds because I like to have my wits about me. I've never taken them for the high only pain control. However, we all end up with a brain that develops tolerence so we have to increase the amount for the same pain killing effect. I don't want to take pain meds anymore for that reason so I went to Suboxone. I would not take Methadone because it stores up in the bones. To me that's not a good thing. My doctor and I both were in high hopes I would get some pain control with the Suboxone since they use it for that in Europe. But my pain levels became unbearable and thus I stared the Norco again. And yes, I know that's not a good thing to do and I figured I was back to square one. I'm doing everything I can to address the pain because that is what will keep me off of pain medication. I will wait the 12-24 hours like I did to crossover and not take a chance of getting the horrible withdrawals you talk about. Thank you again for your kindness in replying to my post, I will stay in touch for sure. I'm looking at a holographic chip that has certain energies or frequencies put in it for pain control. I've heard great things about it and I'm going to give it a try. I've got to control the pain and reduce it by at least 50% or I'm just fooling myself of staying away from something for pain.


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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 10:10 pm 
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tenntod wrote:
I would not take Methadone because it stores up in the bones. To me that's not a good thing.

I don't know where you got this information that methadone stores "in your bones". This is a myth propagated by anti-methadone entities. Nor does it rot your teeth, unless you have resulting dry mouth from the methadone, for which you can buy some saliva replacing gel. Dry mouth can cause cavities, not the methadone itself.


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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 1:29 pm 
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StaffWriter wrote:
tenntod wrote:
I would not take Methadone because it stores up in the bones. To me that's not a good thing.

I don't know where you got this information that methadone stores "in your bones". This is a myth propagated by anti-methadone entities. Nor does it rot your teeth, unless you have resulting dry mouth from the methadone, for which you can buy some saliva replacing gel. Dry mouth can cause cavities, not the methadone itself.


You learn something new every day. I never knew that dry mouth was where the "methadone rots your teeth" legend came from. I figured it was just society's notion that someone on methadone must be a junkie and all junkies have bad teeth. I didn't know there was actual fact behind it. Thanks for the info.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:23 am 
That is partly true tho, I mean it is from causing dry mouth but it also is because when you are a junkie in active addiction you tend to not give a fuck as much about hygeine. Also if you are similar to me opiates make you crave sugary junk food and that can also contribute to it, me favorite thing to eat when I take opiates is peanut butter and marshmallow fluff sandwiches haha. Suboxone is not different for me it makes me crave junk food, I live off pizza, frosted flakes and fluffer nutters lol. My teeth look good look good if you see me smile but I have lots of cavities not matter what I do, I gargle mouthwash 3 times a day, brush my teeth 3 times a day and still get cavities. Thats not unique to suboxone tho its true for all opiates with me.


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