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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:18 pm 
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I've been on sub for a total of 2 years, recently jumped off 10 days ago. Surprisingly the withdrawals have been pretty minimal, however, I don't notice a huge difference even after 10 days! It still feels pretty similar to day 3 to me. Still have random temp. fluctuations, restless at night, increased depression and anxiety etc. I'm guessing it shouldn't be too much longer before I notice a marked increase in mood and well being, considering I tapered so low.

I'm just shocked though, I don't feel much different than I did when I was on subs! I thought getting off would kinda "clear the fog" and everything would improve after finally getting done with this long and drawn out taper, but this hasn't been the case. The taper just completely drained my spirits! Everyone talks about it getting better and better each day, but I haven't really noticed that. It's been pretty baseline since I jumped off.

How long would you guys approximate this withdrawal to last?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:34 pm 
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Hey caboose!

I'm so glad I saw this post... You said you were shocked at how you don't feel much different than how you felt on subs. You're jumping from .04, right? How long did you wait in between each taper?

This time around I tapered for about a year. I could never get any lower than 1mg. So I give you props right off the bat. That crap is tough as all hell to do. I had to jump from just about 2mg. I was on it for 5 years, and started at 32mgs.

I've been off of it however, for 63 days now and I'm at an ok place. Day 32 everything took a turn for the better. Before that there would be good and bad days. What are you doing to help yourself out? Writing on here helps a lot. Even if you just read on it. Wish you nothing but the best. Try to stay positive and watch funny movies! Laugh, baths, and all that jazz. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:36 pm 
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I am sorry it's taking so long for you to feel better! I'm very interested in how it goes for you because I'm going to taper really low before I jump as well.

I think that what you are experiencing just comes from how long suboxone hangs around in your system. You could be slowly getting rid of trace amounts and that is enough to keep you from rebounding very fast. I don't think it will be too long before you start to turn the corner though. Keep us updated on your progress and stay strong!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:33 pm 
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Hey thank you both for the quick response! Yeah it's really weird, I swear if I didn't know any better or had short term memory loss or something I could easily convince myself that I'm still on it! But I seem to be an odd case though. The thing with me was I felt pretty bad even on the higher doses, and like now, once the initial shock of each successive taper passed, I felt practically identical from how I felt before! I believe it was mostly psychological for me. I mean, you shouldn't feel exactly the same on 0.1 as you did on 4mg, should you? I don't know, it seemed like no matter what dose I was on, the side effects were enough to get me feeling bad (low energy, tiredness etc.), and they stayed pretty consistent throughout.

From what I remember, my taper went something like this: 24mg was the highest dose, had no problems whatsoever (besides those nasty side effects of course) until I got down to around 4mg. Then I dropped it by 1mg a month, until I got to 2mg. Proceeded to then drop by .5 a month instead, till I hit the 1mg mark. Then by .25 a month till I hit .5mg. Then I decided to speed things up cuz I wasn't feeling much different from before, dropping about 0.1 every couple weeks till I hit 0.25mg. Then dropped by 0.06 every week till I hit 0.125, then to finish it off dropped 0.03 every 4 days or so, until finally I reached 0.04 and said I had enough. Was scared shitless of the withdrawals, probably due to building it up in my mind for the past 2 years, but honestly looking back I can say day 1 was the hardest for me. Just choosing, for the first day in 2 years, to not take any sub whatsoever freaked me out. But I did it, didn't find it nearly as hard as I thought, and day 2 surprisingly felt very similar to day 1. I thought maybe the withdrawals just took a while to kick in? But they never really did, even here on day 10 I feel pretty much the same. Of course, as the days went on it was nice to know there not gonna be this huge storm of withdrawals headed my way, and not even having to think about subs is nice, but honestly, like I said, I feel like I could probably trick myself into thinking I'm still on it! I guess once I overcame the psychological fear, there was nothing else to hold me back, and such a little amount in my system that I barely noticed it.

Those are just approximates btw, such a long process I don't quite remember 100%. The weird thing is though, suboxone was actually my main drug of choice, so maybe that's why I've had such a different experience from others I've read about. I abused it to the point to where my body started to crave it, and finding a doctor was easier than facing the fear of withdrawal. Little did I know, slowly through the years I started to hate being on that drug and craved sobriety like no other. Now that it's finally here, it's disappointing that I don't notice as huge of a difference as I expected. I can only hope I just haven't waited long enough yet and the true benefits of sobriety have yet to come, and that I'm not truly sober yet due to the long half life of sub.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:45 pm 
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Hey Caboose,

Congratulations on your completed taper! I am rounding third base on mine, currently at 1mg. It's good to hear that you have had minimal WD...anyways it makes me feel better to think I might be able to do the same. I understand your frustration with not feeling like much has changed. But I would encourage you to think back to the time when your addiction ran your life. The fear of running out of drugs, whatever drug you used. I am just looking forward to having this long drawn out nightmare of addiction under control. And to me, until I can get past this hump in the road of being scared of being cut off, I won't be able to progress in my recovery. I will be happy if I can feel the same off the subs as I do now. Actually that would be a miracle for me! You have taken a major step towards "normal". It just shows how successful and disciplined you were with your treatment plan. Good for you!

I hope you start to feel a little better about it, give yourself a little time to get there. I'm betting in another month you will be feeling more positive about it.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:14 am 
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Hey Caboose- Hang in there bud. I’m trying to remember how I felt 10days in and I think I was in a pretty similar spot. I was on vacation for days 3-12 after stopping and pretty active, so I was probably able to overlook most ill feelings. I did notice some symptoms you’ve described when I got back. I know I didn’t really start sleeping well until week 3. That’s when most of the anxiety/restlessness died down as well.

Now as far as mental well being….that was the most challenging part. I don’t know what to say other than it takes time. I had up and down days…I had up and down weeks. It’s frustrating as hell, I know. I think your average days will start to get better in the coming weeks though. I wouldn’t get too caught up on feeling better after 10days or 20days…because even at day30, 60 you’ll be improving. It’s a surprisingly slow process. Hell – I’m about 5 months removed and I think I’m still improving? It’s hard to remember exactly how we felt before we got on subs and I know I did a lot of self-reflecting the first couple months clean. I wish I could say you will feel great next week and everything is peachy being clean, but I can’t. You’ll have to work on finding what really makes you happy, not the pharmaceutical happiness we’ve trained ourselves to enjoy over the years….Good Luck, Stick with it.

P.S. – Here’s a link to the last part of my taper and jump off for perspective…

http://www.suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=7369&start=25


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:51 pm 
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Caboose128 wrote:
I've been on sub for a total of 2 years, recently jumped off 10 days ago. Surprisingly the withdrawals have been pretty minimal, however, I don't notice a huge difference even after 10 days! It still feels pretty similar to day 3 to me. Still have random temp. fluctuations, restless at night, increased depression and anxiety etc. I'm guessing it shouldn't be too much longer before I notice a marked increase in mood and well being, considering I tapered so low.

I'm just shocked though, I don't feel much different than I did when I was on subs! I thought getting off would kinda "clear the fog" and everything would improve after finally getting done with this long and drawn out taper, but this hasn't been the case. The taper just completely drained my spirits! Everyone talks about it getting better and better each day, but I haven't really noticed that. It's been pretty baseline since I jumped off.

How long would you guys approximate this withdrawal to last?


Thats the thing with sub, it seems tapering either extends the half life or makes no difference..

If you still feel the same it shows you have a LOT of half life in you, you'd be better off jumping from 2mg and higher and it'll make no difference to the way you feel or may actually make you feel more clear jumping at those doses.


Am just thinking sub is too strong to taper down.. But it is a concern when people dont feel clear at all with a taper.

Psychical withdrawals are never the issue with subs, but its the mental affects which drive people nuts.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:23 pm 
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I think you are extremely lucky that you did not feel a lot of difference between the tapers. Since the taper took so long, it probably wore you out a bit. Tapering is a mental thing just as much as the physical. So since you never had too many physical issues with the tapering, the mental part is still exhausting.

When I tapered and jumped off at 1-2mg I felt a lot of the physical withdraws. What helped me is taking a mild anti-depressants. My mood improved and I felt happier. I felt like that is why I took opiates in the first place (because of depression/anxiety) So it helped me out lots.

Good luck to you!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:18 pm 
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ADs are not renowned for helping opiate related depression...Probably around 7 or 8 months after stopping the subs they may help, because that is the time the phase of post PAWS comes along.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:01 pm 
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at least 3 weeks my friend. I tapered very low too and I was 3 weeks off then relapsed because of the lack of energy...and other reasons, but the energy was my excuse. YOU WILL make it. DO NOT GIVE UP!. PLEASE give yourself time. I read a book and it said ONLY 5 months to heal the addicted brain.... You are OFF SUB! Count your blessingsd, many ppl cant do it. YOU DID! CONGRATS!!!!! SERIOUSLY you are RAD!!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:54 pm 
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Did your symptoms get any better during the 3 weeks before you relapsed? I'm on day 14 and things are still pretty much the same. I'm really surprised how minimal the changes are, considered how many drugs I was on before jumping off. Sleeping pills, antidepressant, clondine etc. and some herbs. I got off subs and then 5 days later got off everything else in hopes of just clearing my body and mind of all of these toxins. Nothing too substantial yet, maybe these things just take time?

5 months for the addicted brain to completely go back to normal? What's this I hear about month 8 or so the post PAWS symptoms start kicking in?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:32 pm 
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Caboose,

Pay no mind to these 5 month, 8 month marks.. It really is different for everyone and you got down to such a low dose, your situation will be different. It does not get better each day, the general blah feeling lingers for a while but the trajectory makes it's way up if you look at it over weeks or months at a time. You tapered so low, you went through a lot of this crap already. Hang in there because it really DOES get better, but not overnight.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:48 pm 
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I've had 3 major back surgeries in the last 4 years and have been on opiates for 5 years. My last quack Dctr. Who was busted by the DEA put me on large doses of Opana. I used them as per scribed for a long time then started crushing and snorting .5 mg about 6 times a day.
I did a thirty day taper in a professional setting but it was too much and I relapsed for about a month. I went to a great suboxen Dctr. And decided 6 months would be good. I've been exercising and making myself do things every day. I go to a lot of NA meetings and have made the decision to do the jump starting tomm.
I started at 16 mg and am successfully down to .25. I've been at that level for past 5 days and am using clonadine, a little Valium and something for my stomach. I'm surprised I'm functioning, went to dinner last night with friends and work.
I'm just wondering if I go every other day for a while if I'm just fooling myself and am going to feel like hell in a few days?
HAS ANYONE WALKED AWAY FROM .25 with little withdrawls?
I'm eating, exercising and taking vitamins. PLEASE WISH ME WELL!


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 Post subject: Congrats on your jump!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:45 pm 
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Caboose,

Congrats on tapering so low and having a successful jump! I'm doing the same thing and dropping by .063 each time and i feel minimal withdrawals. I'm at 1.75 and will continue to drop the .063 every week until I get down to 1mg. Then from there, drop every 2 weeks. I plan to drop as low as .015 before I jump ship completely. I'm hoping that by staying active and eating healthy, the withdrawals will be minimal as I get lower.

Thanks for the post and try to keep us updated as time goes on.

-RXFCG


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 7:15 pm 
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There really is no difference between 0.2 and under, the affects are no different under 0.2 or 0.25, so your only going to be dragging it out, either jump from 0.2 or stablize on 0.2 and then skip days for about a month or 2.


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 4:04 pm 
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Icaras, I don't know if I believe that. I've read way too many posts about people tapering down to extremely low doses and they had minimal withdrawals which were no worse than a common cold. The sticky threads about the liquid and microgram taper can attest to the success from a low dose taper as well.

Either way, everybody is different and maybe if you're not sensitive to withdrawals symptoms, jumping a .25mg won't be bad. I'll take my chances and take it as low as I can go until I jump...

I'm currently at 1.625mg and dropping .063mg every week and I feel fine every time I drop.

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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 6:54 pm 
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I personally believe instead of taking 0.25 or 0.125 it's better to use SAOs, I don't see the difference except SAOs will make you feel less lousy and if anything speed up the sub withdrawals. Going on sub low doses will only put peeps in mild form of withdrawals and mentally feel lousy, whereas SAOs (from 0.5 subs) will more or less wipe out any withdrawals and make you feel more better, so that you can function and purge the bup. Thats going to be my plan anyway. Why feel lousy and bad at low sub doses when you can feel better with SAOs?..


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 11:28 pm 
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I can tell you why. Because most of us got into trouble in the first place with SAOs! The last two posts I've read of yours have suggested using SAOs to get off sub rather than tapering super low. I think it's a terrible idea to suggest to a forum full of addicts to go back on the pills that led them down into the depths of addiction. And I think that the whole idea of "why feel bad when you can feel better on pills?" is a dangerous way for addicts to think. I've had to get away from that type of thinking. I first started popping pills because I thought I "deserved" to feel better. To me, your suggestion reveals an attitude that's similar.

Amy

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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 11:48 pm 
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I don't think it's right for horse girl I think people should try to get off subs by tapering and stoping if they can, and if they can't do it then its time to explore other options, but amy the argument you just made about it being a terrible idea using pills to feel better is just kind of rediculous and hipacritical considering you take suboxone every day.......Icarus don't spout this stuff out at just anybody, that concept is hard for people to even consider thinking about after what they put themselves through with suboxone and ur gunna just turn people off to the idea this way....


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 11:52 pm 
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Lol I keep doing this sorry I know this is not horse girls thread but I think you said the same thing to her in her thread as you did in this one, again taking a s.o.a. after suboxone should be more of a back up plan dont push it on people if you want them to even think about it.....


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