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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 12:07 am 
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I was not suggesting that everybody should do this, but it is an option for those who cannot taper all the way down.

Using SAOs to get off bup is different to using SAOs before going on bup..This time peeps have the knowlege of how bup is like, so in their heart their aim is to purge out bup and not get high..If you think you will get addicted and chase a high then why stop suboxone? you will continue to look for opiates or drugs after suboxone if you cannot have the dicipline to use SAOs to help getting off bup. Am not talking about crazy high doses of SAOs, but enough to feel mentally well and function.

Going from 0.5 to 0 to many peeps is hard word and too long, especial feeling lousy too, so an option of using SAOs to taper off that final bit of subs may be a option for some peeps. SAOs may have gotten us on the sub train but it may also get us off, except this time you aint using the SAOs to chase a high, you now know how dreaded sub withdrawals and PAWS can be, so this gives you that extra determination to only use SAOs to get off subs...If fear of addiction to SAO is the issue then that comes to choice and exposes those folks aren't simply ready to lead a sober life...

I know personally 3 people who went this route and stepped off the SAOs with clonidine and few valiums, they did not get re-addicted, so it is possible. Can make all the difference in getting off subs semi-comfortable or very uncomfortably.


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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 12:22 am 
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And because I believe that using short acting opiats can be a solution to suboxone addiction I am asking you to take it easy on the subject and not turn people off by suggesting it to people who have not even attempted to stop subs on their own yet....u are working against your own goal and I'm positive you are turning people off to this idea and that sucks


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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 8:45 pm 
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I can mention anything I want dude, it's called freedom of speech...Just like you mentioned this option aswell, so no double standards here. I never said or told anybody to go this route, am simply saying how it can work, and for peeps to make their own mind. People are mature enough to make their own minds, addicts or no addicts..If someone told me there is a pill that can make sub withdrawals go away I would not suddenly jump on that, I would research and get all the necessary details. It's not my fault if some peeps have a gullible trait, am simply just making my own opinions known and what I may do for myself, never said everybody else should do this..Peeps do not need me or you to tell them about this, they can research about it themselves, but I simply gave my view on this issue..

Whether people do this or not is their choice, nobody is forcing anybody to do anything, am not going to hold back speaking my mind just because the notion or assumption peeps may go on this train or make big decisions, this comes to down people's own choice regardless if I or you or anybody else talks about this issue, or whether one is addict or no addict, it's no excuse to use that to hold back, even addicts are mature enough to research and make their own mind, rather then get influenced by others.

People have also said Iboga may not work or may work, you don't seen me suddenly jumping on it or dismissing it, am still researching about it and going to make my own mind.. I am keeping the option of SAOs for myself and then perhaps Iboga, I got enough SAOs saved up and enough bucks to do Iboga too.. Someone said if you cannot recover in 6 months after sub detox then you may not ever recover at all, does it mean we believe that? am not going to believe it or dismiss it, I will make my own mind and experience it for myself..


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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 8:55 pm 
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Whatever dude go ahead and post it on everybody's threads, piss people off I don't care, I was trying to help you be more effective in your communication so people will listen to you. but that was aparantly an exersize in futility...a big WHATEVER to you guy.


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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 11:24 pm 
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Icarus, what did you mean by "if you can't recover from sub detox in 6 months you'll never recover"? Where did you hear this? Reading that got me worried because I'm already almost a month off subs and still don't feel substantially different from how I felt on day 3. Don't PAWS last longer than 6 months anyways?

I'm just asking cuz I'm worried I'll never fully recover! I'm considering taking this time to quit cigarettes cold turkey, just so I can notice a definite downhill and uphill stage, where everything gets dramatically better. Cuz where I'm at now I just feel a baseline blahness, never changing, and its really worrisome!


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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 11:50 pm 
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Caboose I think it's typical for people to feel blah for 6 monthes to a year when they stop subs...hang in there ,exersize, take ltyrosine in the moarning and 5-htp at night....EXERSIZE MORE..........now EXERSIZE EVEN MORE...... If you can't get through this then it's time to consider other ways of doing this but its best to hang in there it's going to take a long time but you WILL feel better after this time passes........


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 12:34 am 
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Caboose, unless Icarus can produce a scientific citation to back his claim, I wouldn't worry about what he says. It's just his opinion.

It must be frustrating to feel like you're not feeling better after a few weeks, but I don't think this is uncommon. I've seen lots of people say that it's taken them months to feel back to normal after being off sub. It takes time, but I really think that you'll be feeling better within another few weeks. :)

Amy

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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 4:11 am 
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Just to be crystal clear,,,,

Im NOT posting in anger/aggression/or to be mean.....

But there are just a few things,,, that hit me the wrong way, while reading your post.

First of all,,,, we are all adults, or should be, so let's be respectful to one another. I'm not saying you weren't being,, I'm just merely pointing out that there's been some drama unfolding in this thread, and I'm uncomfortable thinking about where it's headed......
this is a support forum.......
we can have a difference of opinion, and still be respectful.... I hope....


Icaras wrote:
I was not suggesting that everybody should do this, but it is an option for those who cannot taper all the way down.


this is why a slow, stair-step taper is reccomended, obviously not everyone can do that...... and not for just the reason you are pointing out. some lose thier dr. some can't afford the meds anymore. ETC ETC ETC....
still not a great idea to suggest the very thing that got us here. Sorry but you aren't going to convince me otherwise. Just my opinion, okay.



Using SAOs to get off bup is different to using SAOs before going on bup..This time peeps have the knowlege of how bup is like, so in their heart their aim is to purge out bup and not get high..If you think you will get addicted and chase a high then why stop suboxone?

maybe some are comfortable stopping subs, cuz they've gotten so FAR, mentally and physically from their drug of choice... and suggesting they "go back'' may not be the healthiest option... Im not saying it's IMPOSSIBLE... I'm just saying for the "average" addict, that's given their last dollar for the d.o.c. over the years,,, well,, c'mon...
no matter how you slice it,,, we ARE ADDICTS.........

you will continue to look for opiates or drugs after suboxone if you cannot have the dicipline to use SAOs to help getting off bup.

? not sounding too supportive here(in general). but hey, maybe I'm WAY OFF.....the thing is,, IF I could taper off the opiates to begin with,,, NEVER woulda started the subs... plain and simple friend.



Am not talking about crazy high doses of SAOs, but enough to feel mentally well and function.

Again,,,, we are ADDICTS.... don't know about you, but I couldn't do this,, EVER.... not since my first ever opiate buzz,,, so again, IF I could do that,,, I wouldn't be HERE......

Going from 0.5 to 0 to many peeps is hard word and too long, especial feeling lousy too, so an option of using SAOs to taper off that final bit of subs may be a option for some peeps.

most 'peeps' would drop slower.... I think..... just my opinion.....

SAOs may have gotten us on the sub train but it may also get us off, except this time you aint using the SAOs to chase a high, you now know how dreaded sub withdrawals and PAWS can be, so this gives you that extra determination to only use SAOs to get off subs...If fear of addiction to SAO is the issue then that comes to choice and exposes those folks aren't simply ready to lead a sober life...


I know this one!!!
"it'll be different this time amber,, you won't take it to the extreme,,, you've got it under control THIS TIME....."
.......yeah freakin right........ I've been there, and got the t'shirt, too.... even the dentures.......





I know personally 3 people who went this route and stepped off the SAOs with clonidine and few valiums, they did not get re-addicted, so it is possible. Can make all the difference in getting off subs semi-comfortable or very uncomfortably.


and valuim isn't addictive, right?????
(it is)

HERES just a few people, that did a long slow taper, and did just fine......


http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=296
http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=7449
http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=7207&start=0
http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=8023&start=0

so,,,
in short,,, there's not many actual Dr.s willing to give out medical advice to us, addicts...
so let's leave the medical advice to the "chosen ones" please....

I'm pretty sure, nobody would want to hear about someone following one of our "Ideas" and the outcome being horrible.
I know I wouldn't/......
definitely have enough on my plate, as things are....

Please do not take this post the wrong way, it was supposed to be a little bit funny, and a lot true.

and, of course, good luck to all
goodnight :wink:

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its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
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 Post subject: Warning
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 5:21 pm 
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Normally I use the PM system to ask someone not to post certain subjects because they can scare our new members whose lives are at risk. This is a recovery forum and we support all our members efforts to stay clean, whether it be on Suboxone, Methadone, meetings, or no meds at all. (posted up top)

Icaras, I've asked you nicely not to spout out about SAO's online. You may firmly believe it is right for you but it is a very dangerous method to suggest to anyone else. The statement about six months is only your opinion. Think hard about others before you post. And no, you do not have freedom of speech here. When you say something that can negatively affect someone's life, I will either delete it or ban you, or both.

This is your second and final warning.

Rule62

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