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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:01 pm 
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Hello everyone,

As you can see, I am new to the board. I have read many posts, and finally decided to register.

I have finally (after about 100 tries, successfully got myself off of Suboxone.) I relapsed everytime in the first week do to my source to get them always being open.

I shamefully was getting them on the street. I have now moved, and deleted that contact from my life. Not having any way to contact them or find them...

I am on day 6, and doing well. Only because I found that loperamide helps my WD symptoms severely.

I see you can become dependent on this OTC drug as well.

I am really trying to avoid that. So my question is: how long can you averagly stay safely on loperamide without becoming addicted or dependent?

I heard it can be worse than any other opiate on withdrawals.

Please let me know what the average time is. I have been on it or about 3 days now. Unfortunately I found it after the worst days (3 & 4) lol. But better now than never.

I take about 20-40mg a day depending on dose. I know thats high. But thats what I read to take. And any less keeps the symptoms of WD. So I know that it's the dose that helps from experience.

Thanks everyone. I am glad I am not alone in this hellish owning grip of addiction...


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:15 pm 
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Welcome to the forum 2b, and congrats! To my understanding loperamide is an opiate that only acts on the receptors in the stomach, it should not cross the blood brain barrier. Does this mean it does not cause withdrawals? I wouldn't think so but if people are posting about withdrawing from it I could be wrong. I took lope for about 1-2 weeks when I was coming off suboxone, but I only took 2 pills a day and skipped some days I basically just used it for loose bowel movements. I did not notice any signs of withdrawal from it the way I took it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:21 pm 
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Impala67 wrote:
Welcome to the forum 2b, and congrats! To my understanding loperamide is an opiate that only acts on the receptors in the stomach, it should not cross the blood brain barrier. Does this mean it does not cause withdrawals? I wouldn't think so but if people are posting about withdrawing from it I could be wrong. I took lope for about 1-2 weeks when I was coming off suboxone, but I only took 2 pills a day and skipped some days I basically just used it for loose bowel movements. I did not notice any signs of withdrawal from it the way I took it.


Yes, you seemed to have taken significantly less than most i hear about. I take about 20-40mg a day to ease the symptoms. Which it's a miracle drug for withdrawals. I read many posts about WDs from this OTC med. I am just very worried about replacing one problem with another. I couldn't really see 2-4mg a day or less causing problems. But for someone as myself taking 10x that, I can see an issue. I'm just worried is all. Thanks so much for your reply though!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:35 pm 
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Hi 2B, I think the problem is that we are addicts and want to feel good! I think we will turn to WHATEVER necessary to stop the evils of withdrawl! I have heard people talk about kratom, neurontin, gabapentin, marijuana, loperimide, and kava as being "miracle" drugs but I have also heard horror stories of addiction with these drugs as well! My point, I think when we start to take too many...too often is when the trouble begins! Please know, I am talking about myself as well! I have had thoughts of using something to help me to get off suboxone but I let them move through my brain quickly, knowing that the best way is a slow taper! Please, keep us informed as to how you are doing!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:17 pm 
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Well 2b I took kratom for 8-9 days when coming off of subs and didn't have any adverse affects from it. You get to a point tho where you stop help easing symptoms and just tart replacing addiction. I would just start tapering down the loperamide and try and get off it as quickly as you can. The fact that it is relieving so much of your withdrawal symptoms makes me think it is some how crossing the blood brain barrier thus acting like any other opiate would.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:26 pm 
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I agree 100% with you on that thought. Although reading from a bunch of other sites and medical sources, I found that not to be the case. But who knows for sure. Many people have reported sucess. It's not supposed to pass the BBB but it still somehow supposedly eliminates the "craving" your body has for the drug. I guess only time will tell. I unfortunately get withdrawals so bad. I already have anxiety and depression problems. As well as the PAWs. Though, I am doing what I can to get past this hump in the road.

Thanks everyone for the answers. I am still looking for the answer, but you all have given me a general idea. I appreciate it!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:28 pm 
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Impala67 wrote:
Well 2b I took kratom for 8-9 days when coming off of subs and didn't have any adverse affects from it. You get to a point tho where you stop help easing symptoms and just tart replacing addiction. I would just start tapering down the loperamide and try and get off it as quickly as you can. The fact that it is relieving so much of your withdrawal symptoms makes me think it is some how crossing the blood brain barrier thus acting like any other opiate would.


I also don't know much about Kratom. Can you tell me more about it. And how it helps? I know I've also read many people having WDs from Kratom. Is it legal in the US. Also any preferred real brands? The reviews I've seen talk about how almost every brand out there is unhelpful or fake.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:40 am 
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Well it is illegal now in some states in the us, it is legal where I live, but kratom is essentially just like a short acting opiate it works on the same receptors in the brain so it is also dangerous to use for withdrawal, and once addicted to it it has its own withdrawals. The only real successes I read about with it were people who used it similar to the way I did, only a small amount for about the first week to 10 days of sub withdrawal. But I have to warn you I also read about a lot of people going from suboxone or other opiates and getting hooked on the kratom.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:16 am 
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Impala67 wrote:
Well it is illegal now in some states in the us, it is legal where I live, but kratom is essentially just like a short acting opiate it works on the same receptors in the brain so it is also dangerous to use for withdrawal, and once addicted to it it has its own withdrawals. The only real successes I read about with it were people who used it similar to the way I did, only a small amount for about the first week to 10 days of sub withdrawal. But I have to warn you I also read about a lot of people going from suboxone or other opiates and getting hooked on the kratom.


Well I live in FL, USA. I am willing to try whatever helps. I really appreciate your help and willingness to support my case. I am unsure where to get it to begin with. I read to NOT get it in head shops or such. The best place is online, supposedly. Although, there is never a for sure safe place to order online. Reviews are just about all fake these days, it's terrible. I am sure sourcing isn't allowed. But if you anyone could help me out to get started I am very willing. I am trying my hardest to assure I'll stay off.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:10 pm 
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Hey 2bsubfree,

Yeah we don't allow links to be put up about kratom or telling ya where to find it. I don't think there's a way to just surpass withdrawal to much other than tapering to a low dose over time. That's my opinion but others may disagree with that. If it were me, I'm sure I'd want to do that but knowing myself as an addict, I'd just get hooked on kratom too and that would not be helping myself at all. Impala was able to stop kratom after 8 days, but that's not everyone's experience with it. Some don't stop and just replace it with what they're coming off of in the first place. It seems very tricky in a time where ur already vulnerable.

Loperdine (sp?) is something I don't really know anything about. But I've read articles about ppl overdosing on it due to taking way to much, so be very careful. I read an article, it said that they were trying to make it to where u have to show ur ID to get it like u do with sudafed. So there's definitely risks involved but I'm sure u already know that.

Is there a reason u didn't go to a suboxone doctor to get ur sub legally? Getting them off the street like that is so unreliable, that would be as scary to depend on a dealer. There's a ton of things that could go wrong. U would have had a much better experience if u had gotten into treatment with a legit dr. Would that be something ur just totally against or are u just totally ready to live completely without anything?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:37 pm 
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It's a simple Google search that will reveal all you need to know. Here is a section from Wikipedia:

Efflux by P-glycoprotein also prevents circulating loperamide from effectively crossing the blood–brain barrier, affecting the central nervous system.[35] Concurrent administration of P-glycoprotein inhibitors such as quinidine potentially allows loperamide to cross the blood–brain barrier and produce central morphine-like effects. Loperamide taken with quinidine was found to produce respiratory depression, indicative of central opioid action.[36]
Loperamide has been shown to cause a mild physical dependence during preclinical studies, specifically in mice, rats, and rhesus monkeys. Symptoms of mild opiate withdrawal were observed following abrupt discontinuation of long-term treatment of animals with loperamide.[37][38]
When originally approved for medical use in the United States, loperamide was considered a narcotic and was put into Schedule II of the Controlled Substances Act 1970. It was transferred to Schedule V on 17 July 1977 and then decontrolled as of 3 November 1982.[39]


So, avoid taking it for longer than 2 weeks is my suggestion. By that time your body should have adjusted to being off Suboxone.

And to stay in line with our other moderators, DO NOT TAKE KRATOM! If the topic continues on a positive side regarding taking an illegal opiate this thread will be deleted.

This site is for those who choose to use Suboxone to stay off of dangerous life altering opiates. We support those who decide to stop taking it by providing several sections just for that purpose. Without a support/recovery system in place you are just spinning your wheels trying and trying to stay off of it. Why suffer so much? Once your mind is made up and you are for sure ready to stop ALL opiate and mind altering substances the doors will open for you and you will find the way to success. Many have quit Suboxone here and have posted their stories. Please read those to see how they did it.

For me, I'm still on it until I know deep down in my heart of hearts that it's time to taper slowly and jump. Until then, I'm a good boy who takes his medicine everyday and stays out of trouble. And I also live a very healthy life on top of that.

We here at suboxforum.com wish you, 2bsubfree, a successful journey on your way to find sobriety and happiness.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:44 pm 
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Thanks everyone for the replies. I am still wanting to be done with suboxone and other opiates FOREVER. I don't have the money to get on subs from a doctor. My insurance sucks and the rates are too high for me. When getting off the street, it was more trouble than not at all times. Though, I as always on a lower dose than most (2-4mg) a day then down.

I want and plan to stay off. As I said, I have removed that contact from my life entirely. I of course get cravings, but I know I cant help that. When I do, I get my body busy and they are never too bad to where I think I'll break.

I am staying strong and I appreciate all the support anf help!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:45 pm 
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I also agree about the kratom. I will most likely not try it. I am doing very well with loperamide. I hear too many addiction stories with kratom.

I too feel like my addict side will come out and just want to abuse the kratom. So for my safety I will most likely keep away


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:50 pm 
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Smart move. Kratom is the devil in disguise.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:15 pm 
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Yeah your already a week in it should start getting better soon just taper off the lope and you should be fine! I hope your doing well.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:20 pm 
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I just wanted to add my 2 cents on Kratom. Don't ever touch it. I can't stress that enough I played around with it to avoid withdrawals when I would run thru my monthly pain pill script in a week. It became a vicious cycle. STAY AWAY!.

Why not go to a Dr. and do suboxone legally? In the 3 weeks I have been on it. It seems like a miracle medication.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:02 pm 
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I've written about this before, but i had a patient whose husband used Kratom regularly. He got to a tolerance where he was paying over $2000 per month for his supply. One morning he had a grand mal seizure; at the hospital they eventually found a toxin in his blood but never fully identified it. He ended up with permanent brain, kidney, liver, and heart damage. They don't know if the toxin was added to kratom, if someone poured pesticide on the crop (it came from Thailand), or if the batch was contaminated by a poisonous plant during the manufacturing process.

Great comments in the thread. One thing to remember--- you are not becoming tolerant on loperamide. Your opioid tolerance was increased by using opioids, and is still elevated on buprenorphine. Loperamide also supports that tolerance. At some point you will allow your tolerance to go down-- and during that process you'll have greater peristalsis (bowel movements) and looser stools.

And finally.... the goal of buprenorphine is rarely discussed for some reason-- leading to the impression that we are simply replacing illicit use with buprenorphine. First, understand that even simply replacing an agonist with buprenorphine has huge benefits; a big reduction in obsessions and obsessive behaviors, a much-higher margin of safety, etc. But buprenorphine also is a part of TREATMENT. People are maintained for several years, without the desire to use opioids--- and over time, they start viewing themselves as 'normal people', rather than as 'addicts'. They learn to respect the concept that people shouldn't treat themselves with controlled substances. They start feeling bad if they lie to their doctor or to their spouse. They start to move forward in life, and fear the thought of moving backwards again. They learn to fear getting arrested again. Etc.

All of those things play a role in reducing cravings, as it becomes easier to blow off those cravings with the thought 'I'm not going to do THAT'. But it takes time to get there--- usually more than a year, and sometimes 3-5 years or more. And some people never really get to that point--- and may want to consider just staying on buprenorphine.


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