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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:48 pm 
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Hey, so I've been off opiates for over a year now, but have been taking suboxone off and on. Recently I tried to stop and only lasted a week or two before I had to get back on it and get a new prescription. I am so sick of dealing with this and am worried on how to figure out ways to stop for good. When I do stop it makes it hard for me to even function in the morning, eat, and stay positive. Some days I can take the tiniest amount and be fine all day, but if I don't I feel like crap. I was wondering if anyone else has the same type of issue or have been able to stop taking it and be fine, or if there is any type of vitamins, remedies that can help ease off until you can feel normal again. I really don't want to take it all but its so hard to get off of it completely. If anyone can relate I would love to hear your story and/or ideas to stop eventually because it is getting old and I want to move on with my life.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:34 pm 
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Hi and welcome! Getting off any opiate is not an easy task and suboxone is no different but it is absolutely possible. First I would suggest reading thru the stopping sub and bupe in the rear view mirror sections. There are many peoples experiences and methods in these sections on how to get off sub as painless as possible.

Most success stories are from people who tapered very low and very slow, letting their bodies be there guide. We are all different and must listen to our bodies. Also most people recommend getting a script for clonodine, it is a blood pressure medication and is prescribed off label to help opiate withdrawl. It works by calming your nervous system which completely freaks out during withdrawl.

Depression is quite common during a taper and when you jump. If it doesn't let up you may want to consider getting on an anti depressant. This could be temporary or possibly long term. If you don't like the idea of anti depressants you could just try to ride it out.

Unfortunately you will have to suffer thru some unpleasant symptoms but a proper taper will decrease this considerably. You just have to remember it isn't permanent and you will feel better. Posting and venting thru this experience can help a great deal. We will be here cheering you on!


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:57 pm 
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Depression and sadness is quite common among people who have been dependent / addicted to opiates.

In rehab I was told that certain types of people end up addicted to substances. More often than not, we actually had maladaptive coping mechanisms, mood-disorders, or some kind of emotional pain actually before we started using. This helps explain why my mother and father would go on morphine in hospital, enjoy the relief of physical pain while they need it, then recover and carry on with their lives. I was told that it's those of us who also have some underlying psychological pain that end up with the psychological addiction. This may explain why there is so much mental illness coupled with addiction.

Really, if you want to live without opiates, you gotta learn to deal with the depression, sadness, the rawness, without running back to opiates. It's hard I know, and I've hardly nailed this myself so I'm definitely not lecturing. But in my experience, as long as we keep turning back to drugs to deal with these negative emotions, we keep returning to addiction.

The majority of people in the world get depressed at some point. Most work through it without medical help. Some see a counsellor, psychiatrist etc if it gets bad enough. Some drink / gamble / cheat on their spouse. We turn to opiates.

It sounds like you want a better life, so keep "chipping away" at that addiction. Every day you refuse to use, you chip away a bit more. Eventually, you will find a more healthy, "normal" way to deal with these feelings.

But no matter how much progress you make, I doubt any of us will ever feel "normal", addict or otherwise. Normal's a cycle on the washing machine.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:31 am 
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Yeah well thanks for the reply. That really does help and I have an appointment with my doctor in the next few days and I'm really leaning towards making this my last month but I'm not sure what she will think or what her opinion will be but I know she has never personally gone through it even though she is an expert and I do respect her opinion but it seems like you have to actually go through it to feel the way we all have. I will also look into that anxiety type medicine I think you mentioned to help control blood pressure. Well I will continue to talk up here on this forum because I think it is a good idea and can help me cope when I try to finally stop taking this medicine. Thanks for the input it is much appreciated.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:09 pm 
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Starting a taper journal on the forum can be very beneficial. It will allow you to see the progress you are making and how you felt at different stages of your taper. Also other members that have successfully gotten off sub can see what problems you may encounter and offer their advice. Not to mention the therapeutic effect it can have just to vent and get all those frustrations out. I wish you a successful taper and we will be here cheering you on along the way. You can do this!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:18 am 
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Hey jspa88,

By far, the best thing I did during my wd was to take Clonidine, the blood pressure medication that Breezy_Ann mentioned. I tried a bunch of herbal crap, but it really didn't do anything for me. I know others have had success with some of the herbal supplements, but they just didn't do anything for me.

Another thing I wanted to mention is that you are very likely to suffer at least some kind of mild wd symptoms when you quit Suboxone, even if you taper very low. The wd symptoms will be greatly minimized by tapering very low, but you're still probably going to experience some wd. The Clonidine will help minimize those.

Once you do quit, you're going to find that keeping your mind and body occupied will help you to get through your wd. Your brain will be screaming at you to sit on the couch and not move, but that's the worst thing you can do. You have to force yourself to get up and get active, it'll help.

BTW, when you say you take the "tiniest amount and you'll be fine all day", are you talking about taking the tiniest amount of an 8mg pill or a 2mg pill. The tiniest amount of an 8mg pill is probably around 1mg, which is still a decent amount of Suboxone for someone trying to quit. The tiniest amount of a 2mg pill is around .25mg which is a much better amount to be tapering off of.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:35 pm 
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i was on suboxone for almost 4 years and used heroin for about 5 yrs before that.

right now im on day 23 of being clean off suboxone. And i still feel like shit.....i walk everyday, eat good foods, drink alot of water.....still i have pretty bad anxiety and i feel sad.....crying and shit. my girlfriend and everyone has been wanting me to stop taking suboxone. so here i am.....day 23......and i cant tell if day 3 or day 23 have been harder....I NEED this to end....has anyone else still felt like shit after 23 days??????


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:05 pm 
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Well I have been off for over 4 1/2 months after being on Subs for a year and a half and still don't feel great. I felt like death for a good 3 months, maybe more and am just starting to see the light a bit. You re in for the long haul man. Just take it a day at a time. This stuff really fries your nervous system and God knows what else


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:28 pm 
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Quote:
This stuff really fries your nervous system and God knows what else


Harden up guys, really. Suboxone doesn't "fry" anything more than we chose to fry ourselves.

Recovery from opioid dependence is a LONG TERM process, whether we go on Suboxone, or go straight from our drug of choice. It doesn't matter.

So many addicts seem to believe that one day they will be "normal", or "happy all the time", as if life isn't meant to have any pain. It just isn't true! This fantasy that it's "normal" to be as happy all the time is what made lots of us turn to drugs. The adult world was just too "hard", and we wanted to escape the hardships and just feel happy all the time like before we had responsibilities. :lol:

I got some news guys. As long as you believe that it's normal to be happy all the time. As long as you believe that anyone in this world feels "normal", there's a big chance of relapse.

Our addiction injures our brains and bodies. I don't know of a psychoactive drug that hasn't been shown to be a bit neurotoxic. Addiction itself destroys our values, coping skills, personalities. We are injured, and big injuries need long-term recovery. And injuries leave scars. While they do fade over time, we will be living with them for the rest of our lives, and they become a part of us.

Sometimes it's easier to blame and complain than to accept that life can be hard, harden up, and carry on.

I'll leave on a positive note though. Google neuroplasticity. Exercise your mind / body, study, take care of yourself, and you may find one day you've been switched from SPIN CYCLE to NORMAL. But there are no guarantees in life. And my doc told me that it takes around 18 months post-buprenorphine for the main protein that modulates mu-receptors to return to normal levels. So come back in 18 months and let us know how normal you feel.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:02 pm 
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AMEN BROTHER PREACH IT TEAR!!!!

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:59 am 
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Hey shane and Rmac,

I don't share this very often, for fear of scaring the shit out of people, but I feel compelled to share this again.

During my detox from Suboxone (which I jumped from a fairly high dose), I automatically knew what day of my detox it was all the way up to day 118. Day 119, 120 and 121 I had to really start reminding myself what day it was, so I use day 118 as my......?????......I don't even know what the hell to call it? Anyway, I can certainly relate to what both of you are going through.

Rmac, keep hanging in there, it keeps getting better. It's like trying to push molasses up a sandy hill, but it's worth it in the end. I'm at 1.5 years off of Suboxone and I honestly feel pretty damn normal, I honestly NEVER thought I would feel normal again, but here I am. BTW, normal for me means that I don't feel like I'm dragging a fucking boat anchor around every waking minute. I have way more good days than bad days, I'm happy more often than not and I don't dread life anymore.

Shane, have you tried Clonidine yet?? Clonidine is a blood pressure medication that's prescribed off label for opiate wd. It calms the sympathetic nervous system and it made a huge difference for me. I didn't even start Clonidine until day 30 into my Suboxone wd, but it still made a big difference. Clonidine is by FAR the best med I took during my wd.

It still astounds me how some of us who get off Suboxone take an absolute shit kicking as far as wd is concerned, but then others have a much easier time. It makes me wonder if I'm the biggest cry baby in the continental U.S., it makes me wonder how much my OCD played into amplifying my wd by obsessing over how shitty I felt all the time, it makes me wonder if there is something else in our make up that condemns us to a brutal wd??? I wish I had the answers, but I don't.

Shane, know this, what you're going through is not abnormal for opiate wd. I remember driving by work around day 23 to talk to my boss and let him know that I'd be off for another week. I talked to him for about 30 seconds before I broke down sobbing. He knew what I was going through, I had been up front with him, he and I are good friends, but it was still humiliating to be bawling in front of him. I remember telling him over and over how this wd was just breaking me to pieces. I felt like I was being held together with tissue paper during those days and that the slightest scratch would just have me completely unravel.....which happened often. Crying became something I did pretty regularly back then. I didn't do it on purpose, I just couldn't stop myself from crying at times. Now, I did NOT feel that shitty for 118 days. The first 10 days of my wd were the worst, by day 30, when I got the Clonidine, I was feeling a little better. Around day 35 I went back to work and that helped too. Things improved in fits and starts between day 35 and day 118. Day 35 through 118 weren't hell, but I most certainly knew I felt like dog crap for most of that time.

While Tearjerker is correct in a lot of what he said, if he said that to me during my early wd, it would have gone completely over my head because my brain was still so buggered up. I don't think I would have had the capacity to understand what Tear said during my early wd.

Bottom line guys, it gets better. I promise you, it gets better. I've been EXACTLY where you guys are and I clearly remember thinking I had permanently screwed my brain up, but amazingly, the plasticity of our brains allows to heal and feel good again.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:59 pm 
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jspa88 wrote:
Yeah well thanks for the reply. That really does help and I have an appointment with my doctor in the next few days and I'm really leaning towards making this my last month but I'm not sure what she will think or what her opinion will be but I know she has never personally gone through it even though she is an expert and I do respect her opinion but it seems like you have to actually go through it to feel the way we all have. I will also look into that anxiety type medicine I think you mentioned to help control blood pressure. Well I will continue to talk up here on this forum because I think it is a good idea and can help me cope when I try to finally stop taking this medicine. Thanks for the input it is much appreciated.


Hi. I stopped Sub on 9/14 from a dose of between 1/16 and 1/8. I was on it for nearly six years. I got through the physical stuff and was into the draggy feeling, and then I had surgery. I took pain meds for about 1.5 weeks and stopped. Really, those pain meds should not have caused me any trouble, as far as w/d and stuff. However, it really set me back. Now, I'm back to the morning anxiety, the diarrhea, the chills. It's getting a little better each day but it is unbelievable how strongly my body latched onto those pain meds. I think this just takes a while. I'm expecting to feel good after four months of no Sub and no surgeries.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:55 am 
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Ladder - I was just wondering how you were doing, I'm glad you posted. How long did you end up taking pain meds and at what dosage? Even for non-addicts you can build a tolerance in two weeks, so I guess it's not totally surprising that you feel crummy having to go off.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:59 pm 
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laddertipper wrote:
jspa88 wrote:
Yeah well thanks for the reply. That really does help and I have an appointment with my doctor in the next few days and I'm really leaning towards making this my last month but I'm not sure what she will think or what her opinion will be but I know she has never personally gone through it even though she is an expert and I do respect her opinion but it seems like you have to actually go through it to feel the way we all have. I will also look into that anxiety type medicine I think you mentioned to help control blood pressure. Well I will continue to talk up here on this forum because I think it is a good idea and can help me cope when I try to finally stop taking this medicine. Thanks for the input it is much appreciated.


Hi. I stopped Sub on 9/14 from a dose of between 1/16 and 1/8. I was on it for nearly six years. I got through the physical stuff and was into the draggy feeling, and then I had surgery. I took pain meds for about 1.5 weeks and stopped. Really, those pain meds should not have caused me any trouble, as far as w/d and stuff. However, it really set me back. Now, I'm back to the morning anxiety, the diarrhea, the chills. It's getting a little better each day but it is unbelievable how strongly my body latched onto those pain meds. I think this just takes a while. I'm expecting to feel good after four months of no Sub and no surgeries.

laddertipper


@laddertripper its likely to be the suboxone still in your system, trust me I experienced something similar too except I did not have surgery or go on any pain meds. I was virtually in lingering withdrawals or paws for 6 months. The chills, diarrhea, anxiety etc were lingering with me for bloody 6 months. In those 6 months I would feel quite okish for couple of weeks then out of nowhere "bang" the typical withdrawals set in. Trust me suboxone is attached to your receptors for a hell of a long time. I was on suboxone for 2 1/2 years and I still felt crummy and anxious for 6 months. The low mood was the worst of it. I tapered all the way to 0.25 so I couldnt believe it felt like cold turkey on occassions. The longer your on the sub train the longer it takes for the train to cease and the longer it takes to get those typical lingering withdrawals to subside. Trust me laddertripper its more likely the suboxone in your receptors which is causing these withdrawals. These paws are very gruesom and depression. You feel like its never ending. I dont see many people ride out the symptoms for so many months after having been on suboxone for couple of years, so I cant imagine how difficult it will be for you and other 5 year plus users. Its hard I know, its the hardest detox I ever had to deal with but I virtually had no choice but to go back on suboxone. Those 6 months were some of the worst months I ever been through in my life and I certainly do not blame people relapsing after just couple of months once they take their last dose of suboxone. I even had my family around me and had no other issues yet I still felt crummy and depressed for 6 months, all with those typical acute withdrawals such as anxiety, chills, insomnia and sweats occuring regularly now and then. I hated it. Dont want to go through that ever again. I cant honestly imagine how it is for suboxone users for over 4 or 5 years. Being on a half life medicine for such a long time its bound to take a very long time to adjust, for those receptors to take in reality and slowly take time to adapt to different thoughts and emotions., its just that naturally as human beings we cannot always wait and feel so crummy for a very long time so look for an easy way out, but there is no way except time, well I hope so because I keep hearing of horror stories of brain being permanently damaged and re-wired which makes recovery from suboxone never ending. Jesus I dont know what to believe anymore. I have heard people of feeling withdrawals even 9 months later and feel these paws again and again months and years later because they were on suboxone for a considerable amount of time.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:17 pm 
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Romeo wrote:
Hey shane and Rmac,

I don't share this very often, for fear of scaring the shit out of people, but I feel compelled to share this again.

During my detox from Suboxone (which I jumped from a fairly high dose), I automatically knew what day of my detox it was all the way up to day 118. Day 119, 120 and 121 I had to really start reminding myself what day it was, so I use day 118 as my......?????......I don't even know what the hell to call it? Anyway, I can certainly relate to what both of you are going through.

Rmac, keep hanging in there, it keeps getting better. It's like trying to push molasses up a sandy hill, but it's worth it in the end. I'm at 1.5 years off of Suboxone and I honestly feel pretty damn normal, I honestly NEVER thought I would feel normal again, but here I am. BTW, normal for me means that I don't feel like I'm dragging a fucking boat anchor around every waking minute. I have way more good days than bad days, I'm happy more often than not and I don't dread life anymore.

Shane, have you tried Clonidine yet?? Clonidine is a blood pressure medication that's prescribed off label for opiate wd. It calms the sympathetic nervous system and it made a huge difference for me. I didn't even start Clonidine until day 30 into my Suboxone wd, but it still made a big difference. Clonidine is by FAR the best med I took during my wd.

It still astounds me how some of us who get off Suboxone take an absolute shit kicking as far as wd is concerned, but then others have a much easier time. It makes me wonder if I'm the biggest cry baby in the continental U.S., it makes me wonder how much my OCD played into amplifying my wd by obsessing over how shitty I felt all the time, it makes me wonder if there is something else in our make up that condemns us to a brutal wd??? I wish I had the answers, but I don't.

Shane, know this, what you're going through is not abnormal for opiate wd. I remember driving by work around day 23 to talk to my boss and let him know that I'd be off for another week. I talked to him for about 30 seconds before I broke down sobbing. He knew what I was going through, I had been up front with him, he and I are good friends, but it was still humiliating to be bawling in front of him. I remember telling him over and over how this wd was just breaking me to pieces. I felt like I was being held together with tissue paper during those days and that the slightest scratch would just have me completely unravel.....which happened often. Crying became something I did pretty regularly back then. I didn't do it on purpose, I just couldn't stop myself from crying at times. Now, I did NOT feel that shitty for 118 days. The first 10 days of my wd were the worst, by day 30, when I got the Clonidine, I was feeling a little better. Around day 35 I went back to work and that helped too. Things improved in fits and starts between day 35 and day 118. Day 35 through 118 weren't hell, but I most certainly knew I felt like dog crap for most of that time.

While Tearjerker is correct in a lot of what he said, if he said that to me during my early wd, it would have gone completely over my head because my brain was still so buggered up. I don't think I would have had the capacity to understand what Tear said during my early wd.

Bottom line guys, it gets better. I promise you, it gets better. I've been EXACTLY where you guys are and I clearly remember thinking I had permanently screwed my brain up, but amazingly, the plasticity of our brains allows to heal and feel good again.


Thank you so much. I needed this piece of hope badly.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:02 pm 
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I have noticed that people who have "victim" mentalities become victimized...and people who are fighters,win! The power of positive thought is undeniable.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:22 pm 
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I would like to throw another thought out there, we always here "not many people get off sub after long term sub use and make it". The same is true for an addict stopping any opiate. How many people do you know that made it off their doc long term? Since the percentages are single digits I gather not too many. If you could have stopped your doc and stayed sober, then why did you get on sub in the 1st place?

I think their are a lot of people that think sub is some magic cure that will allow you to get out of paws. It's not, most likely you will suffer paws no matter which opiate you stop from, this can last anywhere from weeks to a couple of years. Depending on your drug abuse history, individual body chemistry, attitude, taper and so many other things. I have read post after post on other forums from people stopping their doc that complain about the exact same, long drawn out symptoms that most do here. I can say with full agonists they seem to get a week or 2 break after acute withdrawl (which is far worse) before they are slammed with paws. There is no easy way around it and time is the only way to heal no matter which opiate you stop.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:38 pm 
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Okay, so I was addicted to norcos 10/325. I was taking 25 a day. Then went to methadone then to subs. I just could not go from 2mgs to 0mgs. So I finally went to see a addiction specialist and he prescribed and told me what to get. This may not be for everyone, but just wanted to help.
1.SUDAFED-(behind pharmacy counter) FOR THE DRIPS IN NOSE
2.IMODIUM-(over the counter) FOR DIARRHEA
3. ZOFRAN-(prescribed) for NAUSUA
4. NUERONTIN(prescribed) it's takes away hot and cold flashes and anxiety
5. CLONIDINE (prescribed)takes care of the restless leg or kicking and anxiety
6.TRAZODONE (prescribed) Is a sleeping aid and u won't have nightmares on it.

However, I am on my 4th day of nothing and I have 2 babies so I can't lay in bed and it helped me at least be able to manage.
The first 3 days on this stuff will knock u put, but u need the sleep so this shit can come out.
So u just have to find AN ADDICTION SPECIALIST PSYCHIATRIST to be able yo get off.
Cus other Drs don't have a clue and will tell u to just deal with it.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:28 pm 
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Personally I would drop the Sudafed if it's one of the formulations that has Pseudoephedrine.

It will make it harder to sleep, and increase the anxiety.

Clonidine helps with the nose drips.

Have some imodium on standby for when that annoying symptom kicks in.

You may also find something like Valium useful when the symptoms get unbearable. But if you have a history of abusing benzos, I would just bite the bullet.


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 1:39 am 
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This is a really good thread and think it will help alot of people, including myselfy, that are wondering when "normal" will come back. Great advice romeo and tearjearker.lP


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