It is currently Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:44 am



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:00 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:58 pm
Posts: 7
I've had an on going love affair with all things opiates for about 15 years. Every form, every way, I did it and loved it. When I was 20 I landed myself in rehab for heroin addiction. I somehow managed to stay clean off all opiates for a few years after. At some point I came across vicoden and started talking them, with out really making the connection that it was basically the same thing. Just didn't know, young and stupid. So I ran hard with them for the next 3 years, ending with taking about 15 a day(which is not a lot compared to some people but still). Money ran out, stress ran up, depression kicked in, and I had health insurance! So I found this "doctor" and he told me of this great drug that would help me. I was thankful and took it. It was suboxone of course. He left out the fact that it was also an opiate, and I didn't discover this until I was already taking it. This was fall of 2006. It is and was a great drug to get yourself together and get back on track. The doctor told me I would need to stay on it for half of my total opiate using years in order to let my brain heal itself. Sounded like bs but he was a doctor after all. So I was to stay on it for 7 years or so, according to the doc. A few years in I became very withdrawn, stayed to myself and closed off a lot of my world and friendships. This continued for a while and I finally had enough. Stopped taking suboxone and was done. So I thought. As soon as the sickness kicked in I went back to my good buddy vicoden. Ran hard again for a few months until everything was pawned and I was once again broke and sad. Very sick, went back to my doctor and back on suboxone. I was happy again and could sleep. For me, it has always been about the sleep. Without some type of opiate, I could never sleep. That kept me in that place forever, just wanting a good night sleep. So as my whole life fell apart, at least I was "clean" right?!? So me and suboxone stayed to ourselves in our semi happy little cocoon, watching life go by. The company I worked for finally sold and I was unemployed and without health insurance. I was sick and tired of being stuck on this medicine and stuck in life. I quit suboxone again. It lasted a few weeks then I couldn't take it, back to vicoden and this time when money ran out I went back to heroin for the first time in 7 years. It was insane, it is insane as you all know. Ran hard again for a while then back to the doctor, back to suboxone. Luckily I had a friend that stuck with me through all this madness, always listening to me and trying to help. He is a childhood friend who I grew up with and shared our love of dope together. He went to prison for heroin possession, got out 4 years later and fixed his life, so he knew the struggle. Once I had no health insurance I was determined to stop taking the medicine as it is incredibly expensive paying out of pocket. My friend told me something very important and it's so true. He said once your game runs out, and you can't afford the medicine or the doctors visits, you'll wise up and finally stop.
So what happened after inronically being on the medicine for 6.5 years(almost 7 years like the doc said) I went to get a refill and the pharmacy told me my prescription had expired and I would have to see the doc for an updated one. This would cost me $250. I didn't have it, had long exhausted having any family give me money and I was on my own. Now being a long time dope fiend I knew of course I could make moves and come up with the money. We are crafty that way unfortunately. But I left the pharmacy, pulled over in the parking lot, cried and said fuck it, this is it. My friend was right, my game had run out. I stopped that day, with every bit of strength I had in me I vowed to never take the medicine or any opiate again. This experience has changed the way I view addiction.

Like my friend said, you have to stop being a baby and taking advantage of everyone around you, man up, except what you have done to yourself, put it as far behind you as you can, and move on. That's what I did and am doing. I did not taper. We are dope fiends, we've been sick before, it's not that bad. It's mostly in your head. And you are usually thinking of the full blown heroin or vicoden sickness, not the suboxone sickness, there is a difference. I basically felt like I weighed 1000 pounds for about 7 days. Minor chills, and for sure zero sleep. I made sure to limit and sleeping pills and benzos. They are not needed. I took one kolonopin one night cause I was desperate for sleep, I got a few hours and didn't take anymore of them. I took a few sleeping pills for a few nights but they only worked for a few hours so I stopped with that. Taking all these extra pills because we think it will help is just us being silly. I did take Advil for the achyness and a daily mulit vitamin. I stopped thinking about the suboxone, I put it out of my head and stayed busy. With anything. Go outside, breath the air, make yourself walk your dogs, smile, be thankful you are moving forward. For me I was just tired of it, completely sick of being like this. And I will add that I think suboxone is just the same as all opiates. It should not be used for 7 years. A few months then get off and get your life back. For me it was a very debilitating drug. I will also add that until you get to where I was, you are not ready. Until you are totally sure, don't try and go off it. If you have any single thought of, " I might stop taking suboxone cause a vicoden might be nice, just one" don't stop taking the medicine. Of all the bad things I have said about the drug it is far better and cheaper than a 6 month pain pill spree. I know this is a very long story but it feels good to tell and hope it either helps just one person or gives them hope. There is light at the end of this dark tunnel. Today is day 49, without any suboxone or any opiate and I feel amazing. I am still fighting for sleep but it is getting better and when I do actually get a full nights sleep I will wake up and start crying happy tears, I look forward to that day and I know it will come. Be patient and good to yourself, you deserve it. I catch myself actually smiling and laughing real laughs for the first time in a while. It's been a crazy insane journey and I know I will be better for it. It tough, it's hard, but what isn't? Hope this helps!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:57 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 10:41 am
Posts: 29
Omgosh that is a lot of words you should separate them into paragraphs


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:23 pm 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More

Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 2:15 pm
Posts: 188
Thank you so much for telling your story.
I heard alot of truth an pain.
Keep on fighting my friend....razor
..


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:34 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:39 am
Posts: 4028
Location: Sitting at my computer
While I might not agree with everything you said, I did want to wish you well on your journey of sobriety.

I also wanted to mention that if you find yourself having cravings or other "bad thoughts" to try some kind of recovery work. I'm not trying to put you down at all with this, but you've slipped several times in the past, having some kind of recovery for your foundation may be of benefit to you.

Good Luck, Finallyfree1 and welcome to the forum!!

_________________
Be kind to yourself. Our character defects do NOT define who we are!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:47 pm 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More

Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:32 pm
Posts: 249
I related to a lot of what you said. I do have to agree with romeo, maybe you'll be different, but for me, no matter how many times I got to that point of "never again," I always eventually ended up back on pills or subs; will power was never enough for me, no matter how bad it got or how ready and "done" I was. Thankfully, this time I have support from a program that reminds me everyday how bad that life was and how easily I can go back to that place. Having that support network really helps me stay clean.

I was always the guy who thought I could get off on my own will and stay off. In fact, I ranted about how much I hated the idea of being in a program on this forum two years ago. I wanted to put this shit behind me and never look back, much like you. But the way it always works for me is, I get to that low point and decide to get off and stay off. I feel great for a few months and think I am cured. Then I get those cravings for no apparent reason and those cravings morph into an obsession which ultimately convinces me I can use just once. Just get a little taste of the old times. That one slip always turns into two, three, four...until I am back in my full physical and mental addiction without even realizing it. Maybe you can stay off this time on your own, but with your history(very similar to mine), you might want to take a look at a 12 step program. Good luck!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:25 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:58 pm
Posts: 7
Livin,

I probably wasn't that clear. My point was really to say my story and say how I stopped, without the taper and just stop. I think the taper just prolongs it, you are gonna go through something ya know. I've been a drug addict most my life and know the benefits of the program and know it's something I will do very soon. I just meant to say how I stopped, I know to stay on the path I will need help other than myself. For me there wasn't another option, can't afford either suboxone or any type of opiate.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:45 pm 
Offline
3 Months or More
3 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:56 pm
Posts: 96
Finallyfree1 wrote:
Livin,

I probably wasn't that clear. My point was really to say my story and say how I stopped, without the taper and just stop. I think the taper just prolongs it, you are gonna go through something ya know. I've been a drug addict most my life and know the benefits of the program and know it's something I will do very soon. I just meant to say how I stopped, I know to stay on the path I will need help other than myself. For me there wasn't another option, can't afford either suboxone or any type of opiate.


Eh I've heard both ways about tapering. Although personally I could never do it (my las attempt at a 'taper' was 16mg, then 8, 4, 2, 2mg lol). Tapering seems to work for a lot of people. Although very few I have seen say they pretty much avoid withdrawal, there are still people that it works for

I totally get what you're saying about being ready. When I say finally ready I wanted off YESTERDAY, hence the laughable taper

Best of luck to you. I also second the program. I hate the idea of it, but every time I go it helps immensely. If it's too boring for you try cocaine anonymous. It's a lot more......livelier lol


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:48 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:58 pm
Posts: 7
I wanted to add that I stopped taking suboxone at 4mg. No taper, no nothing just positive attitude, exercise, and willpower. The ability to do all those things is in all of us. Also, I think that with such a strong and powerful drug as is suboxone, anything higher than 2mg is just too much. I was started at 24mg like a lot if people and that is just insane, total zombie sleepy time!

On the taper issue, I have been told by several doctors that the best way to stop is just discontinue the suboxone. If you were in a facility, they may wean you down for a few days at most, then just give meds for comfort for a few more days and that's it. Not these months and months of tapers that seem to have been created by addicts themselves.

Also, if you read through the book like info that comes with the medicine it states that there really is no clear cut way to stop. The drug hasn't been used in this way for long enough. It says "consult your physician". And when you do, the doc says he never wants you off it. My thinking is the money is just too good for the doc to think responsibly and actually come up with a plan for you.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:51 am 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More

Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:32 pm
Posts: 249
Anything over 2-4mg/day is too much for sure! These 16 and up doses are absurd. I was a 240mg and up per day oxy addict and 2mg suboxone completely took away cravings, withdrawal and even gave me a slight buzz. If I took more I would have probably nodded out. My roommate in rehab was in for heroin and they put him on 16/day. The kid was always nodding out and looked like he was still using.


Top
 Profile  
 
   
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:46 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:02 pm
Posts: 1342
Location: West Tennessee
Hi finallyfree,

I'm happy that you were able to stop CT from 4mg. However, I wanted to point out that not everyone wants to go through the severe WD you have from jumping from such a high dose. I think tapering is a valid choice for those of us who would rather endure longer periods of less severe WD, than go through a couple weeks of serious pain and be done quicker. There is a huge fear of WD that alot of us addicts have that keeps us from being able to do a CT Jump. It is very real, and could be the reason that alot of people stay with their DOC or Suboxone for such long periods. Providing advice to people on how to minimize the discomfort of WD is a good thing in my book.

I tend to agree with what you and Livin have said about the doses being too high for alot of people. But I believe you need to be above the ceiling level of suboxone which is generally thought to be somewhere between 4-6mg for most to get the best results from sub therepy. I don't think 8mg is too high for someone to be on for mainenance. Above that, yes, IMO is usually too much. Can 2mg keep an addict from feeling the discomfort of WD? Yes, absolutely! But, it's not going to keep their receptors at a constant state of saturation, which is one of the main benefits of suboxone treatment.

I guess we can respectfully disagree on this one.

Q

_________________
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. ~ Eleanor Roosevelt


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:40 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:58 pm
Posts: 7
I kinda thought I explained that the WD wasn't bad at all. I felt very sluggish and had minor chills for about 7 days. The main word you said is fear. I feared it too for 7 long years. I think the main thing is you will go through something. There's just no two ways about it. Either stretch it out for however long or do what you are trying to do and stop taking the medicine.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:34 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:02 pm
Posts: 1342
Location: West Tennessee
Yes, you did explain that the WD wasn't that bad for you. I'm really happy that your experience was good. However, it's not like that for everyone. I tried to jump from 2mg and went through 8 days of torture before I realized I wasn't going to be able to make it. I had to have my husband basically hold me hostage in my home to keep me from calling my connections to get any pills. And before you say I should have stuck it out because I was almost done with the WD. I assure you I know that. But at the time I was beyond reason, and I know I made the right decision FOR ME when I went back on the subs. I wasn't ready to be done with it and I'm positive I would have relapsed sooner rather than later.

I'm not arguing that you had a good experience. I'm truly happy for you. I just want to be sure you are keeping in mind that not everyone's experiences will be like yours. I don't want people reading this to feel as if they are a failure if they can't make a jump from the doses you have described. Just keep an open mind okay?

Q

_________________
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. ~ Eleanor Roosevelt


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:48 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:58 pm
Posts: 7
I failed like six times before it clicked


Top
 Profile  
 
   
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:19 pm 
Offline
New Poster
New Poster

Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:43 pm
Posts: 2
Wow, thank you for sharing your story. I felt compelled to post a response and so I registered an account.

Today I made a big decision to get off of pain meds. I am currently on pain meds due to cancer and hip issues. I have had dependency issues with pain meds in the past.

The first few times were due to recreational use. I've been very fortunate to have my own successful business right out of college, so I could afford a pill habit that would sometimes cost $5-6,000 a month.

I got off, but then earlier this year I was put on continuous pain meds due to treatment and pain. So I found myself needing to be on them for legitimate reasons this time. Which was weird. I was very very reluctant to go on them at first. I had that fear that I think we've all had when we consider returning to using, even if its just for "one more time."

At some point, I was using the medication for escapism. For a high. People have told me that it's understandable this time around, because I'm fighting for my life, medically. But I saw my life change again. Antisocial. Not as great at work. And even though we convince ourselves that we can function, even "functional addicts" aren't at their best when abusing.

I found myself so depressed every time I tools pill, because I knew that it would only make things better for an hour and then my problems and pain would be there waiting. And, of course, abusing my meds meant running out early.

I went in today and made the decision to just get off medication. They suggested - and I agreed to - suboxone. I had no idea what it was until today, and honestly, my doctors description of it frightened me. Told me I have to detox for 36 hours and withdraw, then go in so they can administer the first dose. I instantly felt those feelings of, "oh my god, I'm going to die when I do this" (for some reason my mind convinces me that withdrawing is equal to dying). I started panicking, had a panic attack. I've detoxed before, once cold turkey. So I know what withdrawals are like.

In my own way, I had to hit rock bottom, like you did. I hit rock bottom emotionally. The pain meds weren't benefiting anything. My friends are pushed away (who needs friends when you've got Oxycodone?), my relationship with my partner is barely there although we love each other, and I've stepped back from my company for the past couple months. I used to be a work-a-holic and now... now I just take meds. Yes, I have cancer, but what am I fighting for at this point? It seems like I'm fighting through it so I can just numb myself and die another way.

I am nervous about suboxone, and so I've been reading up inspirational stories. I do agree with many people here that a support group is key.

As for the original poster of this thread, whoever you are, thanks for sharing! To be honest with you, I am a little nervous for you. Not in a bad way. It's because you (and me) still have a ways to go. It's encouraging to hear you're 40+ days clean and happy. You already know that we relapse. I'm praying that you keep finding the strength to make 49 days into 100, 364, 1000, 10,000, etc.

I've learned to not under estimate this enemy of mine, addiction.

There will be points where, medically, I will have to be on pain meds. I have another surgery scheduled in three months. But.. the agreement is that they will switch me from suboxone to pain meds for an agreed upon time for post-surgery pain, then right back. Obviously, I know this will be a tempting trap. And I'm sure you and everyone reading will come across other opportunities.

Just wanted to share a little about me, thank you for writing, because it got me to log in and share mine, and I hope you keep beating it. I hope you continue to update us, for better or worse.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:11 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:58 pm
Posts: 7
Glad my story helped inspire a response. I would ask the doctor's for other pain relief methods other than narcotics or I see this happening again for you. I can say without question if a doctor prescribed me pain pills, it would be off to the races again in a second for me. In fact, I had a cyst removed(gross I know) and had to tell the doc not to give me narcotic pain pills. Was one of the hardest things I've ever had to say. The suboxone will help you stay on the path but I say make it a very short one. We have to find it within ourselves and learn to fight this thing on our own(with support of group of course). But it is ultimately up to us. You mentioned rock bottom, know one tells us we are there, we find our way there on our own.

For me it's a huge relief, huge, to be off this medication. Everything in my life is better and happiness is returning. Things I didn't even realize I was doing I now can see. I suddenly remembered I have high cholesterol and have fixed my diet to help with that. No more sugary foods to make my suboxone coma even better.

For me I had a long long road and it took 7 years to get to this point. That's just the way this one went for me. How it had to go apparently. If it was to go a different way it would have.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:52 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:58 pm
Posts: 7
Day 60!!!!!!! Yay me! Feel fantastic, sleep is finally something that resembles sleep. About to eat a beautiful meal and enjoy the night!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:00 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:35 am
Posts: 2801
Location: Southwest
Congratulations FF1 on getting to 60 days!! Keep on posting the milestones. It is always good to read success stories here. May your days turn into months and then years.

rule

_________________
Don't take yourself so damn seriously


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group