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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:38 am 
Long story short i had a quick problems with morphine as a kid after playing triple a hockey and having 4 ribs pulled out of my spine, well we all know what happens after this they put you on subs as the be all answer. Well i started on 2 mg and stayed on that for almost a year, till moving down to 1 then .5 then .3 for a total of a week and a half. I made the jump and took a SAO 5m perc 3x daily for 7 days to try and get some of the sub off my receptors to hopefully make the jump quicker or less painless ( to all those of course i advise against this but at this point even a sao detox sounds good to me) Well for an entire year all i would do is read reports about getting off sub and build and build this mental block to detox symptoms. And thats my point as sub addicts a lot of us hate hearing its in our head, because the symptons are so fucking strong you can't just say that to us because we feel it and live it every hour, that is not just in our head. But our preconcieved notions of our pain threshold is far below what it should be. IF sub was around a thousand years ago, you would have been fully expected to chop heads off in war regardless of "detoxing". Well i have been without sub for 9 days and am 3 days free of a sao and sick as a dog, i layed there all night shaking telling myself i dont want this for myself, i want to run i want to fight, shit if i wanna run triathlons and be a pro fighter one day, if i cant be sick for a minimun two or three weeks i better quit now eh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qziTZPemFHQ

I can do this, one night at a time ( nights are the worst for me for some reason).

Would you rather be in sub detox or chemo?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:14 am 
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Onniegrapples,

I am so sorry you are going through this pain. We understand what you are saying...and you will get a lot of support here. You've come a long way and hopefully you will be able to get through this and not return to using.

I don't have any answers for you, just support. As far as detox vs chemo. I have asked that same question! There are days when I wish I had a physical disease, cancer or whatever, instead of this mental/emotional disease. Just for a break. I'm sick of it. I watched my mother die of cancer and it wasn't pretty. Luckily at the end she went quickly. She was on 2mg methadone at the end. I was on 75mg for 3 years....that scares the shit out of me, you know? If I ever did get cancer would any pain medication even work?

Just wanted to say hi and that people here on the forum understand what you are going through and will be here to help you through it. Keep posting, writing if you can. Drink a lot of water. Can you try to exercise? I know several who have said that helped them tremendously detoxing off sub (or any med) and I know it sounds hideous right now. I tried when I was switching from methadone to sub and well, I'll just say I tried!

You can do this. You are NOT weak...this is painful shit. physically and mentally. It is very hard. But look how far you've come already? That's incredible. Don't leave 5 minutes before the miracle.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:08 pm 
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Hey there Onniegrapples,

I'm very new to this forum but like I've said in my thread I've been around the block in terms of support forums. Just to hear you say you made 9 days is quite a tremendous start. You HAVE to WANT it badly, and it sounds like you do. I think for me, I just wasn't mentally prepared so it hindered me a bit. But, here I am, 32 days off Suboxone and it's been a journey, to say the least. You say you jumped at .3mg, that's quite an accomplishment. Just to get down that low can be a ride in itself. I jumped at 4mg, and I made it. 4mg is quite a high dose to jump cold turkey from but it was time, I was ready.

Like I say a lot, you have to do some soul searching now. During my withdrawal I reflected on myself a lot. I learned a lot about myself and you will too. You have to reach deep into yourself and rearrange the pieces. You need to be strong and look forward, don't dwell on the past or how you ended up where you are. It will bring you down. The best advice is to try to be quite productive during this time. I found by sitting it made me feel even more depressed and shitty. I got out and went for short walks during the first 10 days or so. I'd say by day 12-14 I went out for a quick errand, and it did, it felt good. I did the same thing you did about a year ago. I was reading, reading, reading. Trying to read between the lines and tell myself that I will never ever go through this. I told myself I'd find and buy the Subs off the streets as long as I could. Then after my accident I knew I was ready to get on with my life and don't need this crutch anymore.

You will do it. It's difficult, but very doable. It sounds very cliche, but, if I can do this so can't you. Be strong! I'm here for you. Let me know if you need any support/help/tips. Good luck to you, I'll be keeping an eye on you.

-Jboss


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:07 pm 
Jboss wrote:
Hey there Onniegrapples,

I'm very new to this forum but like I've said in my thread I've been around the block in terms of support forums. Just to hear you say you made 9 days is quite a tremendous start. You HAVE to WANT it badly, and it sounds like you do. I think for me, I just wasn't mentally prepared so it hindered me a bit. But, here I am, 32 days off Suboxone and it's been a journey, to say the least. You say you jumped at .3mg, that's quite an accomplishment. Just to get down that low can be a ride in itself. I jumped at 4mg, and I made it. 4mg is quite a high dose to jump cold turkey from but it was time, I was ready.

Like I say a lot, you have to do some soul searching now. During my withdrawal I reflected on myself a lot. I learned a lot about myself and you will too. You have to reach deep into yourself and rearrange the pieces. You need to be strong and look forward, don't dwell on the past or how you ended up where you are. It will bring you down. The best advice is to try to be quite productive during this time. I found by sitting it made me feel even more depressed and shitty. I got out and went for short walks during the first 10 days or so. I'd say by day 12-14 I went out for a quick errand, and it did, it felt good. I did the same thing you did about a year ago. I was reading, reading, reading. Trying to read between the lines and tell myself that I will never ever go through this. I told myself I'd find and buy the Subs off the streets as long as I could. Then after my accident I knew I was ready to get on with my life and don't need this crutch anymore.

You will do it. It's difficult, but very doable. It sounds very cliche, but, if I can do this so can't you. Be strong! I'm here for you. Let me know if you need any support/help/tips. Good luck to you, I'll be keeping an eye on you.

-Jboss


Thanks man i really appreciate it i would write a longer response but im waiting for my girl to get back with a movie and i just dont have the energy to really do anything but a quick response.

I will keep you guys updated unlike a lot of these journals whatever course this takes ( I dont see how i could go any but clean at this point i want it to bad)

P.S. just threw away my last two suboxone didnt really have any emotion or anxiety towards it i guess it did help in the sense i learned to live life without looking forward to getting high, i associate the suboxone with the detox pain right now and a year ago i would have equated it with feeling better so i guess thats good. Either way who cares how i feel, what i do, how much i hurt as long as i make it through detox at this point thats all im focused on.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:59 pm 
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Hey. I totally understand no need to apologize. The energy and motivation will take some time to come back. It's funny because this is the thing that I thought would take MONTHS to come back. But, I woke up one day sometime last week and noticed a big improvement and from there each morning it was better and better. Takes time like all good things. How is your girl responding and reacting to your decisions? I'm glad you decided to through those little orange things down the toilet. Good move on your behalf, really! Way have them laying around the house when they are just going to stare you in the eyes during this process. Well my man good luck to you. Post back sometime soon when and if you have the energy too. Keep strong buddy.

-Jboss


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:08 pm 
Jboss wrote:
Hey. I totally understand no need to apologize. The energy and motivation will take some time to come back. It's funny because this is the thing that I thought would take MONTHS to come back. But, I woke up one day sometime last week and noticed a big improvement and from there each morning it was better and better. Takes time like all good things. How is your girl responding and reacting to your decisions? I'm glad you decided to through those little orange things down the toilet. Good move on your behalf, really! Way have them laying around the house when they are just going to stare you in the eyes during this process. Well my man good luck to you. Post back sometime soon when and if you have the energy too. Keep strong buddy.

-Jboss


My girl is real straight with it she helps me out a lot, and shes proud cause her dad has been strung out on pain pills for like 7 years and its a really bad situation, i cant be the same person to her but she knows im part of that 1 percent strong enough to get through this and be better than ever. Man i dont know whats up with all this craziness i keep reading online about how people need to stay on subs for life and detox is easy but every opiate addict relapses blah blah blah. Well i really have no way to get opiates outside of that sub script i already throw out, even if i tried besides i have so much more to worry about.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:27 pm 
I lost track and even stopped counting days, i just know i stayed up for 11 days straight or close to it in hours, and it was so much worse than when i detoxed off 180 mg of oc. After not sleeping and getting dellusional i had someone dole out a perc to get sleep and you may see that as relapse, but i am not taking sub its half life is so long i would much rather deal with a couple days of sickness this far in my recovery cause if you knew how bad i wanted to recover and how clean i lived ON subs you would know its a fair trade off as long as i limite myself and have know way of going back on an sao. So about at this point i am stillllll feeling the long half life of sub after taking a perc and being sober for about another 6 days after the initial cold turkey quit, more than long enough for one perc nights of sleep to have you withdrawing so i know that hell im feeling is still the sub. I will continue to take an sao every couple days to sleep regardless of how i feel cause sub is not for me, i am not juding you guys that die but i was put on it for a one month OC habit, so all i really remember is being sober, then being on sub, and i get zero euphoria from the sao every couple days cause im still so sick it really only gives me an hour and a half breather to take a quick nap and the i go right back to hell. God this is such a long process sub detox is rediculous man i had no idea it was this long, i had zero improvement even after day 7 cold turkey, it only contined to get worse and this is after being on an extremely low dose like .3. It had a 37 hr half life compared to the 2-4 of oxycodone so your not even taking what you think you are since it stacks in your system, at least with someone giving me the SAO i know how much is in my system and can see improvements instead of just months of post acute withdrawal. At this point i would rather go to heroine for 60 days and be locked up in jail and go through withdrawal and come out fine after two weeks than this bullshit. And dont tell me shit cause i was told subs have no withdrawal got locked up for 15 days after i thought i had been sober and clean and changed my life to get incredibly sick with 3 other people in a little cell puking and shitting on myself. Im not blaming the drug, i am blaming myself for not doing enough research and being so easily misled by an un informative doctor. Either way i will do anything and i mean anything to get through this post acute withdrawal and just get back into my normal schedule and at least have one try again at my old sober life. Shit that euphoric rush from opiates is a long lost memory, yet i feel like ive lived in detox for a year, sub = not for this cat. I dont wanna hear about relapsing cause i had a short opiate run and pretty much detoxed before i even got on sub, and was misled being on sub will not effect my life or athletics which is the biggest load of bullshit, i ran my first half marathon on sub, then shortly there after lost energy and emotion every month while it built up in my system. NO MORE fuck your relapse numbers id rather be in paws forever then take this shit at 19 yrs old when all ive kwown as a child is hardwork and sacrifice.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:44 pm 
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Hey man thats a bummer to hear what you re going through. Nothing lasts forever though.. Just curious how long you stayed on each taper? How long at 1mg, .5mg, and .3.. I am currently at .8mg and started at 1.5mg about 9 months ago so my situation is similar to yours. I plan on using some full agonists to come off as well but it is a bit discouraging to hear that they don't have too much effect on relief of the W/D


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:20 am 
Rmac04 wrote:
Hey man thats a bummer to hear what you re going through. Nothing lasts forever though.. Just curious how long you stayed on each taper? How long at 1mg, .5mg, and .3.. I am currently at .8mg and started at 1.5mg about 9 months ago so my situation is similar to yours. I plan on using some full agonists to come off as well but it is a bit discouraging to hear that they don't have too much effect on relief of the W/D


I stayed at 1mg for about two months then .5 a good two and a half and .3 about a month, but some places administer bupe every 3 days cause it stacks so i thought i was taking .5 but thats what would be in my system if i was taking it every 3 days. And i really wouldnt suggest using full antagonist unless your getting them administered cause a lot of people have serious underlying problems on bupe and i really dont mean to sound cocky but i cant see someone with a serious addiction to the euphoria of full antagonist having a successful process with that, and they do relieve withdrawal it would just take more than i am willing to take to move forward at this point. Im sure if i tried to fully relieve myself i could but thats not the point.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:41 pm 
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Wow sounds like you had a pretty solid taper then but good to know about the whole stacking thing.. When you were down to .5 and below did you feel ok once you adjusted or were you in minor W/D throughout they day?.. And yeah I hear ya on the full agonists. I only have 8 10mg Vics stashed but I have my Mom to dispense them to me and I am gonna do my best not to take em if I don't need to once I get to that point. Stay strong man! I imagine you have the worst behind you. Appreciate the feedback


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:47 am 
Rmac04 wrote:
Wow sounds like you had a pretty solid taper then but good to know about the whole stacking thing.. When you were down to .5 and below did you feel ok once you adjusted or were you in minor W/D throughout they day?.. And yeah I hear ya on the full agonists. I only have 8 10mg Vics stashed but I have my Mom to dispense them to me and I am gonna do my best not to take em if I don't need to once I get to that point. Stay strong man! I imagine you have the worst behind you. Appreciate the feedback


Ya once i got down to like .5 it was weird i would be sick every morning till i dosed then slightly cold and clamy till i workedout, it was to the point i completely gave up being in water cause my body could never adjust, no matter what people say sub affects your body if you dont notice it you are not active enough, i have seriously lived in chills for so long now i cant remember feeling normal. And no the worst is not behind me i can feel it getting worse because i am now getting those crazy anxious shocks where your body wants to sleep and you start to fall asleep and its like your heart blows up and you fucking kick and punch at the same time and launch yourself out of bed, its like being a god dam worm in the middle of a hot skillet. I am taking my last saos saturday if i have to so i can go to the dmv for a couple hours with my pops and look at getting my license back so i can train hardcore or work right when i start feeling better so im kinda forcing myself to get sober by putting a little pressure on myself. Also some relationships are strained at home my mom is just one of those people like OMG drug addict horrible, even though i have been on sub and a really good dude for a year and a half and really help around the house. Shes nuts thats another story though a lot of old school ppl just are brain washed with addiction issues and then trying to explain a drug as complicated as bupe i might as well be talkin to a wall but i dont get how she doesnt see my pain my eyes are like black and dialated and im obviously ill but my dad understands so if it keeps getting worse by this next week i am considering going to a detox facility for the rest of it . It all depends on the situation here i just want to make sure there is no way i consider getting back on sub or convince myself i cant do this ya know i want to be that one successful story of subs on here. I found tapering very easy so i worry about a lot of ppl struggling for years on this site, and theyre are some crucial sub defenders on here that have denial sub makes them feel 100 percent sober. I have recent memories from a year ago of being sober and i am a very , very healthy dude despite my injury. Well i will keep you guys updated wether or not you fuckin like it cause i can vent on here and am striving to be that one dude having awesome updates and the coolest sub journal on here. I really hope yall can all come on here one day and i can have mad pictures of my accomplishments and tons of advice to offer, now though my mind is not straight from being sick for so long so i think any advice or anything i am saying about subs now, will be altered when i am sober. I am smart enough guys to know i am a little off the wall here and my recollection and overall view of recovery will have changed by that point once i start sleeping and my mind can look at it and process it better. I like this site and all you guys even the ones i hate at the same time if that makes sense.


If i go to a detox facility it would be i guess till i started sleeping again i really wanna show you guys what it can look like for someone after acute withdrawals cause being on sub for so long its insane being able to take an sao, and not spend the rest of the night thinking about taking more its so weird although like i said before i would never advise this for anyone i just have no other choice and am going thru with being chemical free regardless. (dont even have option of taking sao addiction route as i have like two left and have been up for days throwing up still not taking them cause if i take them then i will not be able to get my license back). But ya back to the sub thing i wanna show you guys what someone that has worked there ass off at recovery almost overkill status at a young age that has good mental strength. I find it hard to be strong but when i do i try to come here so i can give you guys a positive outlook, its all about the attitude guys you cant scathe by recovery on that hyped feeling you get about being chemical free, all those hyped up emotions wont be there through withdrawal. I would kill to have paws now though i wanna see how i deal with them compared to going through this horrible acute withdrawal i think thats where i will start thanking my brain i was on subs and lived life not based around getting high. The first couple months on sub i did really well had mad energy worked out but my injury got worse and physical therapy didnt help much even though i busted my ass and got my ribs back in place, well now i have this weird theory of testosterone affecting my body cause when i work out i feel like i heal faster now even though im fuggin ill as shit. And i am feeling the real complexity of my injury on sub it was just dull and one same level pain i was able to move it in my physical therapy exercises more precisely and therefor i feel like its been healing faster weird shit. I am young also and took sub at 18 so im sure my body is still trying to release testosterone and that hindered it cause i should have made way more gains on sub than i did. So it gets me kinda hyped to think what i can do in this year before i turn 20 in august, i really would like to run some races and post pictures but thats a pipe dream right now :(


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 Post subject: Getting healthy
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:59 am 
On a side topic guys health is really important thats why im doing this jump in the first place i want to be as healthy as possible so i can stress diet and working out enough on subs even when you barely have the energy to do so, i feel if you even abuse sub though and are not used to your dose or feel that little bupe foggy head high feeling dont work out i got sick many times doing that you must be either very stable on your dose or anything lower, never higher.

Right before i got addicted to pills i played triple a hockey through highschool and weighed about 178 then i got into mixed martial arts and simple dropped about 10 pounds. Got addicted to pain pills for a month lost a little more weight but muscle weight, got on sub and gained weight back cause i stabalized my dose quickly and quicly became chubby again despite being somewhat in shape and healthy. Well i made it my goal to enjoy working out on sub again though which should have pushed me to jump i really am one of those guys that should have only done a short detox to be honest, i know thats not ideal for most but i think i would have benefited okay but this way i guess there is no question i never want to go back to active addiction once getting through post acute. Well here is a picture after i ran that half marathon i talked about, was lifting weights, teaching my girlfriend submission grappling, doing a lot of physical therapy stuff and overall becoming an endurance freak and loving the cardio, i got really into the aura of marathon and ultra running, and long triathlons and anything mental, a lot of sick people and challenged people do these things more than natural athletes believe it or not rediculous lengths like 100 miles and stuff because it is learned.... You can become stronger mentally anybody can run a marathon is the belief of many ultra runners and i believe it too now once learning how weak my mental barrier to pain was despite doing so well in high level hockey and other sports, well immediately i started tacking on miles and ran 7 within two and a half weeks of just started running in summer heat!!!..... here is a picture once my mentality really took off and i learned how to deal with pain and break what i thought was possible on a daily basis..... guys if your not comfortable with your sexuality dont respond, and hide yo girl...... o and btw im even more ripped now! Thank god for better lifestyle choices!
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:53 pm 
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Yeah exercise is definitely key. I don't know how you work out rats do it though man. Doesn't it get boring pumping iron all day long and following a strict diet? Im fortunate enough to live on the Central Coast of California and surf a solid 4-5 days a week. Its one of the best overall workouts you will get not to mention probably the most fun an adult can have with his clothes on. I try to eat healthy the majority of the time but still indulge here and there and I am still in great shape. I can't imagine not exercising while on subs as our endorphins are all locked up... How are you doing though? Things improving?


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