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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:45 am 
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Here is the info from Fact Sheet Truth regarding the Health Care Bill



Myth / Truth


1. This is a universal health care bill.


The bill is neither universal health care nor universal health insurance.

Per the CBO:

Total uninsured in 2019 with no bill: 54 million
Total uninsured in 2019 with Senate bill: 24 million (44%)

2. Insurance companies hate this bill

This bill is almost identical to the plan written by AHIP, the insurance company trade association, in 2009.

The original Senate Finance Committee bill was authored by a former Wellpoint VP. Since Congress released the first of its health care bills on October 30, 2009, health care stocks have risen 28.35%.

3. The bill will significantly bring down insurance premiums for most Americans.

The bill will not bring down premiums significantly, and certainly not the $2,500/year that the President promised.

Annual premiums in 2016, status quo / with bill:

Small group market, single: $7,800 / $7,800

Small group market, family: $19,300 / $19,200

Large Group market, single: $7,400 / $7,300

Large group market, family: $21,100 / $21,300

Individual market, single: $5,500 / $5,800*

Individual market, family: $13,100 / $15,200*

4. The bill will make health care affordable for middle class Americans.

The bill will impose a financial hardship on middle class Americans who will be forced to buy a product that they can’t afford to use.

A family of four making $66,370 will be forced to pay $5,243 per year for insurance. After basic necessities, this leaves them with $8,307 in discretionary income — out of which they would have to cover clothing, credit card and other debt, child care and education costs, in addition to $5,882 in annual out-of-pocket medical expenses for which families will be responsible.

5. This plan is similar to the Massachusetts plan, which makes health care affordable. Many Massachusetts residents forgo health care because they can’t afford it.

A 2009 study by the state of Massachusetts found that:


21% of residents forgo medical treatment because they can’t afford it, including 12% of children
18% have health insurance but can’t afford to use it

6. This bill provide health care to 31 million people who are currently uninsured.

This bill will mandate that millions of people who are currently uninsured must purchase insurance from private companies, or the IRS will collect up to 2% of their annual income in penalties. Some will be assisted with government subsidies.

7. You can keep the insurance you have if you like it. The excise tax will result in employers switching to plans with higher co-pays and fewer covered services.

Older, less healthy employees with employer-based health care will be forced to pay much more in out-of-pocket expenses than they do now.

8. The “excise tax” will encourage employers to reduce the scope of health care benefits, and they will pass the savings on to employees in the form of higher wages.

There is insufficient evidence that employers pass savings from reduced benefits on to employees.

9. This bill employs nearly every cost control idea available to bring down costs.

This bill does not bring down costs and leaves out nearly every key cost control measure, including:

Public Option ($25-$110 billion)
Medicare buy-in
Drug reimportation ($19 billion)
Medicare drug price negotiation ($300 billion)
Shorter pathway to generic biologics ($71 billion)

10. This bill will require big companies like WalMart to provide insurance for their employees

The bill was written so that most WalMart employees will qualify for subsidies, and taxpayers will pick up a large portion of the cost of their coverage.

11. The bill “bends the cost curve” on health care.

The bill ignored proven ways to cut health care costs and still leaves 24 million people uninsured, all while slightly raising total annual costs by $234 million in 2019.

“Bends the cost curve” is a misleading and trivial claim, as the US would still spend far more for care than other advanced countries.

In 2009, health care costs were 17.3% of GDP.

Annual cost of health care in 2019, status quo: $4,670.6 billion (20.8% of GDP)

Annual cost of health care in 2019, Senate bill: $4,693.5 billion (20.9% of GDP)

12. The bill will provide immediate access to insurance for Americans who are uninsured because of a pre-existing condition.

Access to the “high risk pool” is limited and the pool is underfunded. It will cover few people, and will run out of money in 2011 or 2012

Only those who have been uninsured for more than six months will qualify for the high risk pool. Only 0.7% of those without insurance now will get coverage, and the CMS report estimates it will run out of funding by 2011 or 2012.

13. The bill prohibits dropping people in individual plans from coverage when they get sick. The bill does not empower a regulatory body to keep people from being dropped when they’re sick.

There are already many states that have laws on the books prohibiting people from being dropped when they’re sick, but without an enforcement mechanism, there is little to hold the insurance companies in check.

14. The bill ensures consumers have access to an effective internal and external appeals process to challenge new insurance plan decisions.

The “internal appeals process” is in the hands of the insurance companies themselves, and the “external” one is up to each state. Ensuring that consumers have access to “internal appeals” simply means the insurance companies have to review their own decisions. And it is the responsibility of each state to provide an “external appeals process,” as there is neither funding nor a regulatory mechanism for enforcement at the federal level.


15. This bill will stop insurance companies from hiking rates 30%-40% per year.


This bill does not limit insurance company rate hikes. Private insurers continue to be exempt from anti-trust laws, and are free to raise rates without fear of competition in many areas of the country.

16. When the bill passes, people will begin receiving benefits under this bill immediately

Most provisions in this bill, such as an end to the ban on pre-existing conditions for adults, do not take effect until 2014.

Six months from the date of passage, children could not be excluded from coverage due to pre-existing conditions, though insurance companies could charge more to cover them. Children would also be allowed to stay on their parents’ plans until age 26. There will be an elimination of lifetime coverage limits, a high risk pool for those who have been uninsured for more than 6 months, and community health centers will start receiving money.


17. The bill creates a pathway for single payer.

Bernie Sanders’ provision in the Senate bill does not start until 2017, and does not cover the Department of Labor, so no, it doesn’t create a pathway for single payer.

Obama told Dennis Kucinich that the Ohio Representative’s amendment is similar to Bernie Sanders’ provision in the Senate bill, and creates a pathway to single payer. Since the waiver does not start until 2017, and does not cover the Department of Labor, it is nearly impossible to see how it gets around the ERISA laws that stand in the way of any practical state single payer system.


18 The bill will end medical bankruptcy and provide all Americans with peace of mind.



Most people with medical bankruptcies already have insurance, and out-of-pocket expenses will continue to be a burden on the middle class.

In 2009, 1.5 million Americans declared bankruptcy
Of those, 62% were medically related
Three-quarters of those had health insurance
The Obama bill leaves 24 million without insurance
The maximum yearly out-of-pocket limit for a family will be $11,900 (PDF) on top of premiums
A family with serious medical problems that last for a few years could easily be financially crushed by medical costs


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:25 pm 
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ya i was in support of this bill but it could have gone farther with a public option as i believe we should have gov run health care. Almost every country that is not 3rd world has gov run health care and it works well for them. Dont let ppl fool u if it didnt work the people of the country would rise up and get it changed. Now they will admit its not perfect and some ppl of those countys dont like it but for the most part they do like it or THEY WOULD OBVIOUSLY GET RID OF IT. I cant stand when the republicans say omg its socialism the whole country will turn to socialism if we start with healthcare. Well thats a bunch of shit lets c we have a postal service that is socialized and u have companys in the same market that competes and quite frankly do very will i am sure UPS and FED EX are probably billion dollar companies or dam close to it. We also have schools now i graduated from a public school which im sure most of u did and those work just fine. But all it boils down to is rich f$$$s dont want to have to pay any extra taxes. They act like the extra twenty bucks a check or whatever would break them. People need to wake up and stop letting the top one percent make all the decisons. But president obama is a start he actually got it done took long enough and got watered down a little bit but got it done none the less and i think once people realize that the world is not gonna end because of this. Plus a year down the road most of the people that bitched about this will forget about it and realize it doesnt really have any affect on there every day lives they will c it was a good idea and maybe universal healthcare would work. Insurance companys are just middle men any way remember when u got your drugs from a middle man and how f$$$ed u would get, it would come back short or u had to pay more and the person would make more off of u. It was jus better to go to the source wasnt it lol sorry i figured that would b a good way to explain what a insurance company was like. There should never be a price on your health its bs nobody should be told hey your gonna die cause u dont have insurance to pay for your treatment. I dono i would think more people would common sense and see this as a good idea i hope by the time am old are country will have this cause we need it. and thats all i have to say about that lol


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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 7:25 pm 
Yes, I certainly trust the Federal Government much more than private insurance companies that put a dollar amount on someone's life. Want to pay for it all? Tax the HELL out of the wealthy in this country. Most of them have their money hidden in offshore accounts, so they're not paying taxes anyway (trust me, my mother is an auditor with the IRS). Not fair? Too fucking bad.

And Suboxdoc's defense of insurance companies? Not surprising, because he probably owns stock in one. Many insurance companies, such as the giant Anthem Blue Cross and MAMSI, among others, are owned by physicians! Plus, has anyone else ever spoken to their doctor about medical billing? Every doctor I've ever heard of HATES private insurance companies because they either randomly and repeatedly deny claims, or only pay whatever they feel like paying toward a claim. Medicare, on the other hand, is a standardized and comparatively efficient national system that reliably pays the same amount for each particular billing code.

HOWEVER, I'm sure that Medicare pays very, very little toward Suboxdoc's fees for a patient visit. Psychiatry is a specialty that traditionally charges outrageous amounts per appointment, so both private insurance companies and Medicare are very hesitant to pay $100-200 for 15-50 minutes with the doctor. I'm sure he has claims denied all the time.

This is NOT to say that Suboxdoc is not an excellent man, physician, and creator of this forum. My point is more that as healthcare in America evolves, it will be harder and harder for certain medical specialties to demand excessively high amounts for treatment.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:04 pm 
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How about some numbers?

My Sub Dr. told me that he only gets $7.00 per month for me being his patient. Plus my $10.00 co-pay whenever I see him.

Granted, he gets that $7.00 per month, every month whether I see him or not - just as long as he is listed as my PCP.

AND I have what is considered pretty top notch insurance.

Can you blame the guy for wanting me in and out in 15 minutes?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:42 pm 
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Hi everyone, I realize this is an old post but thought I would add what is now happening to me because of this law. I currently pay $750 per month to insure me and my children. I received a letter that my premium will be going up 40% Sep 1st. When I called and asked why I was informed that they have to increase to cover costs. Now I am by no means wealthy far from it. I give up many things to afford insurance for my kids. I know many people who take advantage of the system, including my best friend and sister. They both get free healthcare because they manipulate the system. Yet they have nicer things than me, go on multiple vacations, etc. Then complain they can't afford insurance. The thing is they want to have their cake and eat it to. I realize there are people who truly need help but there is so many people screwing the system and nothing is done about it. Infact from my experiencr the govt encourages it. I was 20 when i got pregnant witj my first son and had no insurance. I could not get a plan to cover my pregnancy so I qualified for free insurance. As soon as I had my son i called to cancel my policy and they said why, you are approved for another year and so is your son. They also said i coul get WIC. I told them that i appreciated the help when I needed it but I will find a policy for me and my son. The woman continued to argue with me and finally told me I was crazy and she couldn't understand how I could turn something that's free. In my opinion the government should look into all the people ripping off the system to free it for ones that truly need it. Now here I am, someone who was honest and did it right facing insurance premiums I can't afford and am now legally not aloud to drop it, therefore the govt is forcing me to by something I can no longer afford. I would also add my insurance does not cover my sub doc or meds. So now what I guess quit so I can afford this forced insurance and sleep easy because my suffering is giving someone else healthcare? I can not believe this can happen in America. I thought we were supposed to be free!


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:44 pm 
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I apologize for the typos, I did this from my phone and it would not allow me to fix it and I didn't want to start over!


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:28 pm 
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Suboxfreedom - you cannot cut and paste's some "fact sheet" and not cite it. I know you didn't take the time to type that all out, so I would like to see where your information comes from.

I don't see how listening the benefits of the bill is "political", I have members of my family already benefiting from it. It will benefit me when I find insurance through an employer because I have pre-existing conditions.

Our Healthcare system needs even more reform IMO.


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