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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:22 pm 
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ok im sorry but i have to get this off my chest right now because it is making me mad :twisted: im on day 17 of suboxone withdrawal and i tapered, i followed advice ,i tried everything possible to do this right and i have had a heck of a time and im ready to call it quits and when i read posts on various websites from people who are like "im sick of these horror stories and just want to let people know its not so bad blah blah blah......" it makes me so angry because i am really suffering here. maybe some very few people get lucky and can heal and recover more easily than others but in general this is a hard drug to come off of, taper or no taper. i weaned for an entire year and got down to .25 and here i am ready to lose it on anyone telling me it was easy and they are sooooo great now! if you want to stay on subs and can afford it or have insurance fine but when does life ever go as planned? i have been pregnant and given birth 3 times, i have been homeless i have gone hungry i have struggled with other addictions, but this ranks as the worst experience of my life. and just think its only halfway over!! :shock: i dont want to offend anyone i just dont want anyone feeling the way i feel now thinking there is something wrong with them because they are having such a hard time. in a perfect world we could stay on subs forever and not worry, but for many that is not an option because once your money or insurance runs out no one seems to care anymore!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:38 pm 
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I'm so sorry you're having such a hard time, stardust. It is true that not everyone has an easy time of it, we're all different, with different physiologies and different drug histories. Do you have access to any comfort meds - clonodine, sleep aids - anything like that? They say clonodine helps quite a bit and is one of the best meds to help with w/d symptoms. How about exercise - are you getting any of that? I've also heard that moderate exercise can be extremely beneficial in these situations. Try to stay moving!

I know this is really hard, and again, I'm really sorry it's been so bad for you. I don't know what symptoms you're having still, but the worst should be ending soon. Try to focus on a future time when this will all be behind you. YOU CAN DO THIS. Please try to hang in there! We're here for you...all of us.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:46 pm 
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btw, no, the withdrawal is not as bad as opiates physically, but mentally it is pure panic and anxiety. sorry, but there isnt an easy way out, you have to earn it and work for it and fight the demons! no other way around it.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:06 pm 
Hey stardust,

So sorry you are going through such a bad experience. I think it is so good you reached out for help on here. There are alot of really smart people on this forum that will give you great support. After I read a bunch of stuff on here, includidng reading the articles by Dr Junig, I learned alot about myself.

I have only been on suboxone for about 4 months now, and my insurance pays for it, so I am in no way wanting to stop at this time in my life.

I have been through alot of shit in my life too. I think we all have. I have had three kids too, two of them with help from no drugs. That sucked.

I have been in a mental hospital for a month, back in my late 20's. I got so scared and parinoid from being on methamphetamines that my husband drug me into a mental hospital. For a time, they thought my brain may be damaged forever. That experience has to be one of the worst things I have ever been through. I lived with such fear, I thought every day that a government orgiznation was going to come and kill me. Funny to some people, real life HELL for me.

Since that happend about 10 years ago, the pain and fear from it has diminished but not entirely gone away.

After that my son got cancer when he was 10 years old. Talk about HELL. I would have probalbly killed myself if he would have died. That happend about 4 years ago. If I think about that experience too much, I shake and cry. But since it has been awhile now, and he is ok, I don't think about it very much anymore.

I guess my point with all this is.....Right now, you are going through a really shitty time. You have made it through the other things in your life, you can make it through this. You sound like a person who really wants to recover from this shitty disease of addiction. That is awesome! Do you see a counselor or go to AA meetings? I wish when my son had cancer I had AA and a counselor to support me. The place I go is so great and supportive.

Anyway, know I am thinking about you and will say a prayer for you. Keep us updated and take care of yourself. Eating well, sleeping well, exercise, and a good diet go a long way. I am also taking vitamins that I feel help me alot! I know it sounds like bullshit but I have found that I feel so much better if I actually do take care of my self that way!

Hope to "see" you soon! Kire


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:07 pm 
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i have benedryl and immodium. my biggest symptom is the anxiety and restlessness and being sweaty and cold. my lower back is killing me and ive never had back pain before.i have a headache (like you get when you first take suboxone)constantly that motrin and tylenol will not help. i have kids so we have been out walking daily this week but i couldnt leave the house the first week. i cant get any other meds because i have no insurance and no money, ive missed some days at work and my boyfriend has also to help me,so im extra broke. i dont think medicine would help at this point i just have to give my brain time to work on its own again. i like to hear the horror stories because then i know im not alone. when i read someone having an easy time i feel envious and like maybe somethings wrong with me and i should go to the nearest psychiatric hospital!! anyways im sorry for the anger and i appreciate the replies as im having a very rough time with this.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:50 pm 
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i have gone to aa/na since i was 18 and i dont like the meetings around here because i know everyone and have used with them throughout the years and i dont get out much anymore so it may be a trigger for me. i had my first daughter when i was 16 and lost custody of her when i was 18. her father had my parental rights tooken away because i also ended up in psychiatric ward because i took way too much lsd and had schizophrenic like symptoms-it took quite awhile to overcome that and i havent seen my first daughter in 10 years and because i have no rights i dont even know where she is. so when i was 22 i was put in a halfway house and i met a guy and after a few years of solid recovery we decided to start a life together and now we have a four-year-old girl and a two-year-old boy. i started using opiates after we had our first baby(my 4 year old) and my son was born addicted to opiates. so ya know im really feeling like all this crap ive caused is coming down on me hard right now, but its nice to know other women have had a crazy life too, because everywhere i turn there is this picture perfect family and i feel like scum of the earth!! i really thought i finally was going to have a good life and raise a family and it just crumbled so quick and im so scared to lose my kids. i just wanna be ok and take care of them.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:34 pm 
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stardust -

I'm sorry things are so hard for you right now. And I know what it feels like when it seems like you're on the outside looking in at the "perfect" lives of other people. I've been in the mental hospital twice for depression, the second time was after a suicide attempt that left me in a coma for 3 days. I've worked so hard to make a life only to see all my efforts swept away by depression again and again, and I've self-medicated with every drug under the sun just trying to find a way to feel ok in the world.

I was on Suboxone for 2 years, and I've been off it for a year now. That makes 3 years since I've abused opiates. I've been able to work and go back to school and care for my daughter, and I'm not taking any psych meds any more. I feel like I've finally weathered the storm (I'm 37 now) and that I finally might be able to make a life with a little serenity and happiness. Please don't give up. We are all so much stronger than we could ever imagine.

I don't know where you live of if there are any community mental health services available to you, but if there are you might want to look into it and see if you can get any kind of counseling. The feelings you're dealing with right now are so big - it might really help to have someone to talk to about it. At the very least, please keep posting here. Many of us have been through the shit in our lives and have felt as alone and scared and out of control as it is possible to feel. You're not alone.

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 Post subject: No fairytale here.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:49 pm 
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I have only read a couple of stories from people that walked away from this virtually pain/ wd free. I sure as hell didn't. I completely feel your pain, literally. My lower back was killing me, it was horrible. I have had back pain resulting from an atv accident long ago but never like I did through w/d from subs. The restlessness, ugh, words can't describe how bad it was. I can vividly recall standing in walmart trying to buy school supplies feeling like death would be an easier way. But, relief does come, for most people, they get better, I still feel better with every passing day. I still suffer from a little insomnia and although the rls is gone I still feel this nagging ache in my calf muscles at night. I wake up, grab my phone, look at the time, praying it's past 3 a.m. because I consistently wake up between 3-5 a.m. which sucks, but I just get up and watch tv and I haven't had a normal bm yet!
Just so you know, your not alone, we all have our demons and we all have our regrets. I have a completely disabled g-tube fed little boy that will be five years old this month. Although I did not directly or intentionally cause his disability, I feel a whole lot of regret for several reasons I won't go into, but as his mother I believed I had the responsibility to protect him and I failed. He was completely healthy up until "that night" that will remain the worst event in my life. I guess you can only assume all these events in our lives build who we are, you can't dewell on the past, it's gone, the future hasn't happened yet so all we have is right now. Cliche I know, just don't beat yourself up, your not a bad person you obviously feel horrible for the mistakes you made while suffering from the disease of addiction, you have made great efforts to get help and that's remarkable. Build yourself up, don't underestimate the power of thought. If you keep telling yourself your not a good mother or your a bad person it will be your reality. We create that with our own thoughts. If you want it believe in it. I know it hurts, but I failed my first quit because of severe anxiety and depression and I believe that my positive thoughts, even through my literal hard times, has been my saving grace through this.
Don't apologize for being angry, it's natural, it's not all about suboxone, it's a lot to do with our anger at ourselves for getting into this whole mess and believing that an easy way out might be possible and then losing that hope when we realize it is NOT a cure all drug for addiction, it's just an aid and for some people the fear of the w/d is the only reason they are still taking it.
You have come a long way, just hang in there, I'm on day 22 and I can promise you it is better than day 21 or day 20 or day 19 etc. etc.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:01 pm 
Stardust,

I totally know how you feel. I also used to look at everyone else and wonder why I was so fucked up. Yeah on the outside I had a great husband, three kids, and a good job. On the inside I could never understand why people even got out of bed in the morning. I looked at others laughing and thought "WTF are they so happy about." I tried using drugs and alcohol to help me just get through life. I felt like the biggest looser on earth. I felt like the most shitty mom on the planet. What kind of good mother has to put a fucking needle in their arm to get through the day. Finally I admitted this to my husband and a doctor. Since that day when I was brutally honest with others and told them what I was thinking, my life has changed so much for the better. I got put on celexa and suboxone, put into counseling (and told to NOT lie), put in AA (and told NOT to lie). I was at the point where I just did what I was told. If I didn't, I was going to be dead.

I know I am so lucky that my husband has not kicked me out, that he has a great job with great benifits so most of my treatment has been paid for over the years and now. ( I married my highschool sweetheart and had my first daughter at 19. We are still together.) We also have parents with some money who have helped us out over the years when things have gotten really bad. I know most people don't have that or the insurance I have.

I guess I agree with Diary of a Quitter. It seems like you need some help to find some free/low cost places to help you. Social workers are awesome with this. is there some place you could go and talk to a social worker? If it gets really bad for you (pain/suicidal thoughts/any overwhelming physical symptoms) I would suggest you go to your nearest ER and tell them the truth. The honest truth like you have shared with us. They are good at helping in the short term and pointing you in the right direction. They can tell you where to get free or low cost help.

So Stardust, know you are not alone in the world. Know you are not the worst mother/person ever. When you talk about this you will find out you are not alone.

Kire


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:02 pm 
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Stardust,

I really appreciate your post because I went off sub and jumped at 12mg. The physical, like you said, wasn't anything like oxycontin, but the anxiety, depression, moodiness AFTER all of that was REALLY difficult. It wasn't easy. I would wake every morning hoping to feel better and WANT to be alive and working and functioning and day after day, I would not. Sometimes I could talk myself into it and moments felt better, but overall it was just plain hard. I was more unhappy than I have ever been. It wasn't anything counseling could take away or things that were in my head. It was real and it was difficult, and it was scary and I had no idea when it would go away. Over time, there was a measurable difference and things did get better. It was VERY HARD for me to go back on suboxone. But in the end, after 3 months off, I did for pain because I didn't think I had any other option. But it was hard being off and hard deciding to go back on. I don't wish those 3 months on my worse enemy and am very sorry you are experiencing it now. Really. I feel for you. That was a traumatic time for me and it wasn't easy. I hope you can find the strength to just keep going one day at a time and just keep putting one foot in front of the other. I hope you will feel comfortable continuing to post here so we can support you through this.

Take care,
Cherie

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:38 am 
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I am new to this message board but have been browsing posts and comment for a few months now. I have read all the horror stories on here about jumping off suboxone and I have read yours. I feel horrible about the hard time you are having quitting suboxone and I agree that reading others similar experiences will make you feel better. I'll bet you are very close to feeling better, just hang in there.

I was on suboxone for 18 months and I tapered for about 6 months and took my last suboxone dose 3 months ago. My taper was very similar to yours, getting down to .25 mg a day, then .25 every other day, then off. I went through the process with 6 other suboxone patients that I met in AA. I really hate to say this but only 1 out of us 7 had a difficult time with withdrawals. I don't say that to discourage you. I think it is common for people to struggle when jumping off suboxone but I don't think it is the norm. Most I know have done it with very little withdrawal's. You must be one of the few that are going to feel it.

The question I have for you is did you utilize your time while you were stable on suboxone? I worked very hard those 18 months to get my life in order and worked with my doctor and my therapist to manage some of the other mental issues I've always had, ie. anxiety, depression, other addictive behaviors. I worked harder on myself those 18 months than I have the whole rest of my 34 years. I knew in order for me to succesfully come off suboxone I had to be mentally sound and have my life in order. It sounds to me that your life was still very stressful when making the jump.

I realize finances are a big problem for you now and most of the time that is out of our control but there are resources out there that can help, but you have to seek them out, they won't come to you. You mentioned not liking AA or NA meetings but what better way to get an hours worth of free therapy. I hate to say it but if meetings are a trigger for you it is probably partly your fault. There are usually two groups of people at meetings, a group of people who are serious about sobriety and a group of people who are only there for the courts. It reminds me of rehabs I've been to. I've checked out of rehabs with nothing but new contacts and a lowered tolerance. I would complain that rehabs were a waste of time and there wasn't anybody there seriously trying to get better, but it was me, I would seek those people out. To my suprise there were lots of people in these places that had good intentions. Same thing with AA, you won't get anything out of it if you are talking with old using buddies. Attach yourself to the members that are there for sobriety; the ones making comments, shaking hands, reading the book, involved.

I hope I did not offend you with anything I said but I have found when I am having a rough time it is usually something I am doing wrong or not doing right. Some of us have to work a little harder to live a happy and content life but it's worth it. God bless and good luck.

Tammy


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:11 pm 
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im not offended by what anyone says at this point. anyways i have gone round and round to get help. funds are running low here in ny state so nobody wants to help me, i make just alittle too much money. i cant blame them there are alot of people who dont even have food. anyways thanks for everyones encouragment i think i just have to get through this sub withdrawal and then see where im at afterwards. i thought i had gotten alot better on subs. i got a better job ,i got a vehicle, i fixed my credit ,and moved to a bigger place, then i lost my health insurance and the mess began. i have struggled to pay for treatment out of pocket and it just wasnt possible anymore.my dctor didnt suggest counseling or anything. i thought it was an easy way out and i could get on with life. he never said i would need therapy, he just handed me my script in the 5 minutes i seen him each month, i thought the way the drug worked it would heal me or something, i didnt realize it was a potent opiate until i figured that out myself. moral of the story is if you are on subs dont end up like me, get in aa/na or counseling because something is underlying the opiate use. my boyfriend wont even let me go to walmart alone, so i dont think he wants me at aa/na every night. well something has got to give here soon. i have underlying anxiety/depression issues so thats why its so much worse for me, but alot of us do, and thats why sub withdrawal is no easy task for us and you really never know how you will react off the sub until you do it.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:46 pm 
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i think you guys are right about my anger, the subs are easy to blame right now because the withdrawal is intensifying my own feelings. i just dont know. all i do know is i havent thought about or felt any of these emotions when i was taking suboxone. my anxiety went away totally. i got depressed (tired,unmotivated) during my taper, but its the anxiety that just cripples me.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:28 pm 
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Hang in there stardust, you will feel better eventually. If your sub doc would call in a clonidine prescription for you I think it would help you a lot with the anxiety as well as the hot/cold feelings and some of the other physical stuff, insomnia, etc. It's a really cheap medication too, so that's good.

Meditation has helped me a lot with anxiety issues. There are lots of guided meditations online that can help you if you don't know how to do it. I really do hope you're feeling better soon.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:52 pm 
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stardust321 wrote:
i think you guys are right about my anger, the subs are easy to blame right now because the withdrawal is intensifying my own feelings. i just dont know. all i do know is i havent thought about or felt any of these emotions when i was taking suboxone. my anxiety went away totally. i got depressed (tired,unmotivated) during my taper, but its the anxiety that just cripples me.


To me, it speaks volumes about your character, stardust, that despite the intense anxiety and stress you are feeling right now, you were able to come out and admit this. We see a lot of people come on this board and blame people, places and things for their problems, but never really acknowledge that a lot of it could actually just be their own stuff. WELL DONE!

I hope you are feeling a little better and please know that even though I don't really know you, I will be thinking about you and hoping for the best for you. You CAN do this. Just hang in there.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:31 pm 
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well i must of grown alittle bit because im feeling better today. i think thats all i can say for now. i have alot of soul searching to do but i think i can do this. im finally to the point of being able to think straight and not totally panicked wanting my medication back. i felt like a child who was told no and i had a temper tantrum lol. :oops:


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Hey Stardust,

I'm just now beginning my dexox, tomorrow is last dose of .5 mg.
It seems like you are a lot farther down the road. Thanks for
showing me that it can be done.

but darn you for telling me some scary stuff I might be facing :D

It's gonna be what it is, and that's that. PM me if you want to
communicate about symptoms and wellness coming off. I need
to build a stromg support network!

Best wishes.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:54 pm 
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hey runner sorry to scare you but im having an awful time, i was also on the stuff for almost 2 years so thats why its been more difficult for me. when you get put on sub for failing to quit opiates and there are so many different opinions on how long you should stay on it , you get frustrated on what is the best approach. in my mind i thought "do i stay on it so i dont relapse, or do i get off it so i dont go through hell getting off it after a year or more, and all of sudden it had been two years and then i was forced to go off it for health insurance and doctor issues. so i just dont know. im very confused and in the process of finding out what would of been best for me. the doctors should all be on the same page and have more knowledge about this medicine. my doctor never said nothing just said i would taper off it slow in a year or two, but then didnt taper me and just kept handing me the scripts, then left me hanging one day and i had to figure out for myself how to deal with all the responsibility i had accumulated while off my doc, while coming off suboxone.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:59 pm 
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and i almost forgot i feel alright today. 3 weeks with no subs. im just concerned now with lingering cravings and depression, and dealing with life after 5 years on opiates. everyone says it gets better and i havent felt good in sooo long whats another few months or so of feeling bad.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:53 pm 
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Stardust,

I believe that the people who say "its not that bad" are the ones who have experienced full opiate antagonists. In relations to that yeah it will never be "that bad"

however i was on subutex for 2 years and didnt sleep or feel good at all until day 17.

you said it.it just takes time! I hope you hang in there and you can do this!

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