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 Post subject: Jumped twice
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:00 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 53
Well, by this time I've jumped twice from Suboxone, and it was only from a total use of 30 8-2 tablets.

Both times my taper was very, very low and I had every comfort med you could ever want- and then some. My psych threw the whole damn pharmacy at me just in case.

The physical withdrawal was mild, but the psychiatric symtoms were absolute hell, worse than my full-agonist experience.
I can honestly say that my cold-turkey from 100mg oxy was easier, much more physical though. (your experience may vary)
I cannot begin to imagine how someone could do this without benzos, clonidine,immodium, and a SERIOUS sleep aid.
I'd not only have to be in the hospital, but probably for at least a month.

It was truly torture, and I've been in some bad shape before. Waves of panic attacks and insomnia were the worst, and RLS. 15 days the first time 16 the second. I did everything in the book, including excercise and meetings. During the day I took 3x Xanax, Seroquel, and Zyprexa and at night 800mg Seroquel- all rx'd. And I was still "on the edge". Seconds seemed like hours, and my only peace was to knock myself out at night.

At the end, I had intense opiate cravings, felt more empty than I ever had in my life, and learned that my post-acute withdrawal phase could easily last a year or more. This is absolutely insane.

At my last Sub doc appt, I confessed all my sins, and he put me back on. But he ordered a psychological evaluation, which I had today. I went in with a humble attitude, made ammends to his counselor for my wrongs, thanked her for helping to get me off the sub, etc. I'm bipolar type I and have severe anxiety.

The damn lady didn't even look at me. She didn't even sit down while scoring my little "tests" and said, "your anxiety level is off the top"...thanks, lady. I told her about my therapist, gave her a reference letter, told her I've been going to 12 step meetings and doing great, she didn't say a word. This damn lady had it in for me. Then she pulled up my record and read back the whole story to me of how I refused to go inpatient because I had to care for my mother (I had just apologized for that, ancient history). I have NO doubt that her reccomendation will be negative. She also told me (news to me) that I'd failed my last urine screen, testing positive for unprescribed klonopin (I'm Rx'd Xanax or Valium, why the hell would I take Klonopin- I didn't!). I tried to show her my unfilled Valium Rx and she wouldn't even look/glance at it. I left the place seething,still am- and of course terrified that this means the doc might follow her certain reccomendation and ditch me.

I don't know what to do except to be humble again with the doc (if I even get a chance to speak), let him know all the positive things I'm doing, and tell him what happened at the interview, and that I left there feeling pretty hurt, and that the lady was very insensitive towards me. I'll tell him in plain english that I'm working my butt off and following instructions- that with his help I have every chance, and without it virtually none. If you think sub w/d is bad, try it when you're homebound, bipolar, and expected to care for a family member.

I've got major financial issues, I'm still largely paralyzed, terribly painful bipolar condition, and can't afford to get another sub doc. If he yanks the rug out from under me, he's gonna be stealing every realistic chance I have at success- and sending me into at least a year of hell. Shit, I'd have thought the lady might have said "I'm sorry you're experiencing anxiety", or "I see your experiencing a lot of anxiety". And she could have thrown in a little "it sounds like you are doing some positive things". Shit, I even wore dress pants and a pressed shirt. I was expecting it to be a formality, and this thing has me REALLY upset. I called and moved up my next appt. from 10/14 to 10/5, but I may get a certified letter before that.

Sorry to blabber on, but I could use some support on this one, this sux. I obsess about EVERYTHING constantly 24x7, and I've got between now and October 5th to worry my butt off that I'm gonna go through that hell a third time. This is anything but fair, that lady is evil. I'm almost tempted to write an update fax to the doctor thanking him for putting me on and letting him know I'm doing very well & looking forward to my next appt....maybe a good way to get my answer earlier???

Finally- This msg isn't intended to scare folks, I think that coming off sub is very do-able, but only if you've got meds from your doc, he feels you're ready, and you have one HELL of a strong support system, and a lot of ways to stay busy after the first couple of weeks.


 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:48 am 
Hey runner, sorry for what you're going through. I have to preface my response by saying that I hope anyone coming off of Sub right now reads your post all the way through - because just reading the 1st 3-4 paragraphs would scare the living shit out of them! Certain phrases, like "living hell" "worse than full agonists" and "need a month inpatient" tend to jump out at people. But I think reading it through to the end emphasizes the fact that you have UNDERLYING condidtios (bipolar, acute anxiety) that reared their ugly heads when you went off of Sub.
The same thing happened to me. The withdrawals weren't bad at all in my opinion, but I became extremely depressed, to the point it was debilitating. What I should have said, though, was that I have been treated for depression many times, with many different meds before, during and after my opiate addiction/sub treatment. So my Underlying depression really came to the forefront.

Runner, as far as you situation goes, I wouldn't assume that whatever the psych eval says is going to result in your doc taking you off of Sub. It actually sounds like you're MORE stable on sub and that it helps you cope with your other conditions. If the issue is the urine screen I would hope you could fight that, as false negatives do occur. If the anxiety is really eating you (and it sounds like it is) how about just calling the docs office, asking if he received it and if he has any feedback about it for you. Be aware that sometimes it takes a couple of weeks for those evals to be finalized, typed up and sent to the doc.
Try to hang in there, it sounds like you're feeling better now that you're back on the Sub. Focus as much as you can on that, and let us know how it goes from here.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:05 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 53
Thanks for the input.

You are indeed correct that I had issues with insomnia and sleep long before I ever took my first opiate, much less sub.

In writing my post, I was thinking of, and relating to the origin of this thread, the post from Startdust321. Painting sub w/d as being worse than homelessness, childbirth, etc. For sure THAT would be scary for a newbie to read if they were planning taper and cessastion of sub, but's that where Stardust was at. Would love to hear where he/she is now.

I wanted to share that my experience was similar, but went out of my way to add that last line about how I feel that it is do-able. All the same, almost everyone I've heard testimony from has said that it's a distinctly more psychiatric withdrawal- an almost universal theme. No point in trying to hide the elephant in the room there. Spare a few sweats, I had zero physical w/d. No RLS, No stomach problems. No weakness to speak of. I was upright in my chair, not flattened in bed.

Excercise was/is sooo important to me to get my "real" endorphins moving. By Day 5, I was going to AA meetings whenever I could. So yea, I believe the most important A #1 thing is to be READY (prepared) to stop- to be aware that the cravings are going to come back and have a plan to deal with that. And for sure to take every step with an MD. I've not heard many who could do it without some support meds, even if it's only clonidine. Everyone I know who's succeeded for any length of time has also had a therapist and support system. I found it tempting to relapse not to get high, but just to make the sickness go away "just a little". We all know where that leads.

I'm a little cooled-down today about my subdoc psych eval yesterday.Will See my psyc tomorrow, and therapist 10/29- so I hope to ask them both for strong letters of reference (especially the psych), suggesting that I'm a good candidate to be maintained on sub until I'm better prepared to get off.

In the meantime, I really need to get a dosage adjustment in the down direction, but I'm kinda scared to call the doc. If I do call the nurse I'll probably let them know I'll be happy to come in for a pill count & unrine screen- I hae to remember that I violated their trust when I started abusing my prescriptions.

If I've learned anything at all through this whole ordeal it's to LISTEN TO MY DOCTOR. And if I have issues, ask questions or see another DOCTOR. But whatever I do, don't deviate, not even a little from their orders. This site is great for moral support and shared experiences with meds, but not for medical advice.

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