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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 10:42 pm 
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Okay guys...I went to the doctor today. I have been at 1mg for the past month or so and as of tomorrow I will be dropping to .5 mg! The plan is to stay there for a month and then drop to .25 for awhile, then .25 every other day until I run out of sub.

I just figured I would give myself a little kick in the ass here and officially declare that I will be making my jump sometime in July.

I had a few moments of fear this morning after I left the office...but I was surprized how quickly I was able to redirect that into excitement. Yes...I am really doing this. Wow.


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 12:58 am 
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the drop from 1 to .5 is going to suck and might be a bit more than it's worth. Go to .75 first, maybe even .875. I went right to .75 and it wasn't awful, but wasn't a walk in the park either. There's a good 3-5 days of shitty sleep and mild withdrawal like symptoms. I'm not trying to scare you. Quite the opposite, I just want you to be successful and highly recommend you go a bit slower.

I was on .75 for a couple of months, dropped to .625 for like a week and then to .5 b/c I was on .75 for a while due to Sandy. It's all in my thread. But going from .75 > .5 in a week or so was pretty taxing. Easily the hardest drop I made, but they're all way more difficult under 1mg. 90% of the battle is the taper under 1mg, or at least it has been for me. Getting to 1mg was kind of a breeze and didn't entail too much withdrawal. When you start dropping below 1mg, you will feel it more. Cutting your dose by 50% is not something I would recommend, but where there is a will there is a way. I'm just saying you're going to probably have 7-10 days that suck while your body adjusts.

My advice.. Slow down, and relax. This isn't a race. Get a self-healing cutting mat and an exacto knife so you can cut your doses evenly and well. I was at 1mg in October and it's May now I'm at .1875 and going to .125 next week. It took me a while to get to .25, but I liked to take breathers between dropping my doses so it wasn't all annoying-ness. Maybe your body will be different, or you're in more of a rush, or any other number of reasons.

Honestly, at .1875 I don't yawn or sleep shitty at all. I feel almost perfectly normal. I think I could jump tomorrow and be ok in a week. But I'd rather go as low as possible and have that week be even easier. What's another couple of months really?

Your prerogative may be different, but from an experienced taperer, I highly recommend you take it a bit slower.

Godspeed! Best of luck!


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 1:00 am 
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That's a big reduction I mean its half........I'm not saying blow ur doctor off but I don't know, did you always do 50 percent reductions as you tapered to 1mg ?? May be better to do 25 or 12 % reductions especially now that ur that low...


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 1:06 am 
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Yea I didn't see the post before my post he posted his as I was typing my post sorry for vein redundant...


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 7:55 am 
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Hey boys...thank you so much for your concern and your advice.

Just to give you a little more info on why I am doing it this way. My doctor is one of those who is very strict about "his program" (I hate it when he calls it that, this is my recovery not his program). At my appointment yesterday he gave me only 8 2mg strips. He said I would come back in 30 days and that will be my LAST appointment. I will be given somewhere around 4 2mg strips at that visit. Then I'm done. So in his plan I will have to make the jump at .25mg. He is very inflexible about this, and it pisses me off. I would love it if I could take it a little slower, but it just isn't an option. He says I might be "a little uncomfortable for a few days" Ha, what a joke! I finally got over trying to convince him to see things my way and have been able to embrace my fate. It really made a huge difference in my attitude about it and I have been much better, less scared since letting go. I think he pissed me off enough that I decided I was going to make it in spite of him instead of because of him. KWIM? So I managed to save about 5 2mg strips from the past month. I know it is going to suck for a few weeks, but I feel like it would be better to take my lumps this month on the initial 50% drop and have the extra few strips to do a lower taper after June. Then I will be able to make the jump after a full month at .25 every day, and an extra month (maybe a little less) at .25 every other day. I do have that little cushion so if it gets really bad I will be able to dose up for a couple days if needed.

Again, thank you for the advice. I wish I could go slower, but on the other hand I have felt pretty bad for the last month or so and the prospect of having this all over with is kind of exciting. I have to be strong and follow through, I have seen people do it much quicker and be successfull. I know I can do it, I am going into warrior mode as we speak!

So my plan for today is to hold off on taking my dose until the afternoon. That way I won't have too much time for it to wear off and start making me feel bad this evening. Of course, this plan is flexible. I'm going to have to figure out this dosing schedule at the lower amounts. It's hard to guess when the best time to take it is when it doesn't stay in my system the full 24 hours it's supposed to any more.

So, Day 1 at .5mg.


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 9:28 am 
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Hey qhorse! I understand you being nervous and excited at the same time... I find my self in that same boat alot especially the days leading up to my next reduction. I swear I have to mentally prepare myself so much for even the tiniest drops in my meds. The other day Romeo had posted that maybe trying the see saw effect, If you start feeling really bad go back up 025 mgs for 1-2 days and than back to where you were to try and stabalize at your current dose. Idk if you really have that option seeing is that you were only given so many strips but I am not sure if you have any extra left over from previous months? I TOTALLY get what you saying about this is your recovery not his program. You are right! He nor anyone else can really tell you how you are going to do. I know that I was so worried about yesterday because it was going to be a highly stressful day but I made it.. I have not taken on to much responsibility lately in fear that I will just give out BUT i've noticed when I am commited and I have to just do it I get through it and everything is fine. Do you like reading? Or listening to audio books? I've noticed that when my mind is telling me.. "HEY TAKE YOUR SUBS!!!" I find myself really interested in the books I'm listening to or I will go take a walk around my building, Go to the restroom and even brush my teeth just to keep that clock moving so I can wait as long as possible for my next dose. I really do wish you the best of luck and You CAN do it!!! I know it's going to be hard but what in life isn't hard right? That's what I keep telling myself. I hope you can find something to maybe get into to ease you mind.. I pray alot, I enjoy talking to God and just asking him for peace in my head and heart and he listens. This helps me as silly as it sounds I feel so much more spiritual now because I know that he will always be there for me and I will get through this. I will send up a little prayer for you as well, I don't know you but he does and I will just ask that he carries you through this taper! Good luck!!!! You CAN DO IT!!!


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 11:09 am 
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Look at it this way....at least you have a doctor that's trying to help you get sober rather than completely ignoring you and pushing suboxone on you without doing any doctoring.. It may be hard to imagine if your doctor is responsible as yours is, but many of these doctors pay no attention to the fact that its much much harder than the original habit to stop if you wait to long.....your so much better off this way you really are, and if it don't work out you can always find a pill pusher sub doctor later on and he will have no problem dulling out 3-4 pills a day for life.....but u want sobriety u don't want this for life, deep down you know that, it's best to be positive and grateful for his concern rather than be put off by the haste u know....let it make u feel good instead of frustrated...


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 11:24 am 
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@Semperfi...that's what I meant when I said I was going to do it in spite of him...I know he is only doing what he thinks is best, and even though I don't totally agree with every point of his methods I am grateful he held me accountable and is forcing me to do what is, for me, the right thing.

@Brighter...You have no idea how great it feels to know you are praying for me. Really, that means alot. Thank you so much. :D


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 12:08 pm 
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qhorsegal, I'm sorry you're being forced to taper. I am tapering on my own, but because I have to have a hysterectomy May 29th. If you look at my post, you can see I plan to go back on 1 mg after surgery, all depending on how I am emotionally. I don't like the idea of entering the hairiest part of WD's while I'm immediately post surgery.
For me, in a past wean off Suboxone, I went way too fast, and didn't let my depression catch up to my sub doses. I have a 40+ year history of depression, on an antidepressant and suboxone in addition to keeping me opioid free, has helped my depression. So on my previous way too fast wean, I became horrifically depressed pretty quickly on only 1 mg.
I like your plan of hanging on to extra strips so you can go at your own pace after your doc stops writing for you.
I too will add my prayers for your minimal WD's and successful depression free wean!


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 1:49 pm 
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Qhorse, I'm rooting for ya, too!!!!

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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 4:47 pm 
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Hey qhorse! Good to hear your dealing with the fear by redirecting it into excitement. maybe i should take a leaf from you book and do that myself! I read that you were a lil worried with the dose wearing off quicker, maybe you could try and do a split dose (that is if you arnt already, i dont recall reading that in any of your posts). i have never done it myself so i cant attest if it will help you or not, but ive read alot of posts on here where it works really well. The guy from the top of your post broseph wrote in his thread about it, so maybe it can help you. You could start by splitting your current dose to get used to having a split dose before you make your drop. its tottally your choice though, either way i hope the best for you and cant wait to read your success story when you do make it happen!

Take care


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 6:51 pm 
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Instead of going down to 0.25 and 0.125 or whatever low dose then isn't it better just to use SAOs at the tail end of a taper? at least SAOs will make you feel less lousy and if anything speed up the withdrawals of subs.. I think going down to 0.25 and under is just going to make peeps feel lousy, and those doses do not work any better then what a SAO will do, so it seems beneficial to me to use low dose SAOs at end of taper or from 0.5.


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 8:07 pm 
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@BeautifulDisaster - I have been split dosing my 1mg for about a week and a half which did help the physical crappy feeling while I was there. I tried split dosing today and just couldn't make it with the .25 so I wound up taking the other .25 about an hour later. I am feeling pretty decent right now. I am hoping after a few days I can successfully go to splitting the .5mg to help it last longer in my system. Broseph was a great help to me last week in making the transition to the split dosing, his last post on his thread was great. Thank you so much for the vote of confidence!

@Icaras - With all due respect to your opinion I don't think taking SAO's even short term would be a good idea for me. I am an addict...I have come to the realization that I can't do it responsibly. That is exactly why I got into this mess to start with and I don't want to go back there ever again.


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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 12:06 am 
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qhorsegal2 wrote:
I don't think taking SAO's even short term would be a good idea for me. I am an addict...I have come to the realization that I can't do it responsibly. That is exactly why I got into this mess to start with and I don't want to go back there ever again.


this is a great reminder for you, to make a "plan" of some kind,,,,, for "after suboxone"

like,
what will you do, if (more like WHEN) you get a bad urge/craving???

In all honesty, I think you'll have the taper/detox/etc WHIPPED and your gonna do GREAT...

its the weeks/months after wards, that IM WORRIED about... know what I mean????

so,, If it were me,, I'd take some time, maybe write out, or whatever your comfortable with,,,,

HOW you'll handle it,,, cravings/urges/bad days in general....

I've had some HORRIBLE bad days, even ON the sub,,, of course my habit was/is NO joke, either....

anyways,
just wanted to mention that... I want you to not ONLY get off suboxone, but STAY off all the other shit, TOO!!!!

K???

[marq=right]*****GOOD LUCK*****[/marq]

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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 10:47 am 
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Hey Amber,

Thanks for the reply! I totally agree with you. I have been giving this ALOT of thought the past few weeks. I tried to go back to a meeting with my AA group only to find out my little group had folded. I am looking into other options for support groups close to me, and I'm hoping to find one pretty soon. There is an NA group that I haven't tried yet, I don't want to start going to NA until I am officially off all opiates...and that is getting pretty close! I'm working with a psychiatrist, he's not an addiction counselor but I like him so far. He's really inspiring and funny and just a geniune kind of guy.

I like the suggestion of making a plan and writing it out. Another friend suggested I make a plan for how to deal with the surprize run-in with any old suppliers. I have given that some thought, but I haven't really thought through how I will deal with the cravings and temptations after I'm through with the taper. Well, other than just distract myself until it passes. I think accountability is really big for me and I need to work on putting more of that in place. I don't have a great support system at home so I need to try extra hard to find someone who will be available to encourage me during rough moments. Really, the people here on this forum have been a huge part of my support system. It's really cool that we have this place to come to and hash out our feelings, good or bad.

BTW...welcome back! I wondered when I came back in March why I hadn't seen you around. I am happy that you are back and doing well and will be posting again!


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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 11:23 am 
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morning hgal, im a na member,ya on sub,no some dont like that. I dont worry about them. If you are looking for suport chexk out that meeting.you could find the friend on suport you will need to help you STAY clean.and isnt this why you are tapering?:-) my hat gos off to you and all you guys out there trying this.. Ive learned so muxh from na. I know for a fact that you get what you give in that fellowship.i found my people there who accept my low dose and slow taper.very slow. .anyway, just wanted to say if you are looking for more support givethem a chance. Ya never know who may pop up with a helping hand...happy sunday everyone...raz....


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 11:13 am 
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Yesterday was a pretty tough day. I was feeling the WD set in Saturday night but pushed past it. Woke up yesterday and felt awful, I decided to try .25mg hoping it would knock the worst of it out. I wound up taking my other .25mg 2 hours later. That held me pretty good for most of the day, but then it set in again last night. After some thought and discussion with my husband I decided I would take another .25mg last night for a total of .75 for the day. I think I will hang out here for a few days, hoping I will adjust better to the slower drop. I am amazed at how much just that little tiny piece of sub makes a difference in how I feel. That just goes to show how strong this medication is, huh?

So...I'm slowing down a bit, hoping I will have enough suboxone strips left to complete a slower taper.

Rolling with the punches. :?


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 12:01 pm 
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Having goals set for you taper is a great thing, but so is being flexible with it. Progress, not perfection!! :D

Also, talking with your husband about it before you took more is a great!! To me, that shows a shift in your thinking and that's super!!

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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 12:19 pm 
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Horse girl it's probably time to switch over to putting your suboxone in a liquid form, being accurate will greatly improve how quick you stabilize and eliminate the ups and downs chances are now that its such a small amount your swallowing a big chunk of ur dose and if its liquid u absorb it almost immediately........get a milliliter dropper and glass bottle u can figure out the rest......


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 1:19 pm 
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Still lose just as much with just using liquid. I mean regular sublingual max is like 30% so you may get that or a shade more. It's not big enough difference to worry about.

Using a dropper is good for ethanol solutions. Crank it up to 50% - 70%. That's a noticeable difference. But. Say you dissolve 2mg in ethanol it's going to be equal to taking almost double that regularly. Like 4mg sublingual straight up.

Something to think about.

Buprenorphine isn't very water soluble at all. That's why I think it's only good for making it easier to take microscopic doses. Not to increase anything. Just easy. Now. Buprenorphine IS very alcohol soluble. That's why ethanol solutions almost double bioavailability. Makes it easier to take less. Real money saver for cash payers.


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