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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:59 pm 
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The one thing I can say for sure about getting off suboxone, is that you have to want it more than anything you've ever wanted. Maybe that's why so many members who are jumping, or getting ready to jump, come here with so much anger. It's almost like you need that fuel to get through one of the biggest battles.. It won't work if anyone is pushing you or if you're not ready, your head has to be in it. In it to win it..

Hang in there Qhorse.. no one faults you for taking a step back.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:54 pm 
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I don't think Qhorse took a step back, I think she took a step forward and saved her ass.

Qhorse, I'm glad you decided to stay on Suboxone. You knew you weren't ready to get off of it yet and you did what you knew had to be done, good on ya!!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:47 pm 
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Thanks for the support guys. You are all so awesome.

@BrownEyedGirl...I think you are doing the right thing by reducing by those small amounts. That seems to be the key to doing it comfortably. I did pretty well with my reductions til I got below 1mg. It was never awful, just mild WD symptoms. But I didn't seem to get more than just a few hours of relief when I would dose. When I took that first dose of 1mg I actually got buzzed from it and realized then just how much I had lowered my tolerance. But I also quickly realized I had been living in a constant state of mild WD for over a month. I just really needed a break, I was so tired of feeling "off", if you know what I mean. I truly believe I would have made it through the WD just fine after getting so low. But I know with 100% certainty it wouldn't have been long before I relapsed. I was thinking about it for weeks before I was supposed to jump and I'm positive it wouldn't have been long before I made that call.

As I said before, I was doing it for all the wrong reasons. I just wasn't ready. If my heart had been in it then I think I would have been just fine. I'm not really sure where I'm going from here. I am having a hard time convincing my hubby that I need to stay in treatment for a bit longer. And I really just want him to see that I can't do this for anyone else...it has to be for me, and in the time frame that I feel comfortable with.

I guess in answer to your question, I think you will do great if you feel like you are ready for sobriety. If you are tapering and jumping because it is what you want, not being pressured into it by others, then it's really do-able. Just be prepared for the after. Once you start getting below 1mg all those demons start to re-surface and you just need to be prepared to deal with them. I wish you the best of luck!!!!

Q

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:30 pm 
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I have to say I disagree with 1 or 2 comments about some people being glad others stayed on suboxone or went on a higher dose. It is becoming more and more common that staying on suboxone causes more problems then not. In my opinion it is best to GET OFF suboxone soon as possible. For majority of people it only causes more issues not just pshycally/mentally but in life sense too. You just do not feel the way you want to feel. It blocks your emotions, your ambitions, your goals, lowers your prospects, cuts down your motivation, interest and determination amongst other things. All this can have an impact on your life and those close to you.

I am sure people may not be ready to jump off but that feeling will still be there later on. It has to be done sometime. I believe much of it is in the head. If you got back down to a low dose again you will still have that fear and still may tell yourself you are not ready, so it is in my opinion and best interest to just go back down soon as possible and jump off. I do believe if you tell yourself you can do this and psyche yourself up in having that determination to get off then it is possible. I believe jumping off is up to us. We can do it if you want.

I also happen to disagree with going back up to 1mg, if you needed to go back up then 0.5 would have sufficed. Going to 1mg am afraid to say is prolonging this whole mess. It all comes down to the way we think. I have heard so many times that our personality is also a major influence in regards to tapering and jumping off. If one cannot or does not want to jump off a 0.25 or any dose for that matter then what is going to change later? all that hard work tapering down only to go back up can seem a waste and a big step backwards.

I would have personally taken another med or even some kind of opiate rather then go back up to 1mg. Suboxone is still an opiate so what is the difference on going to another opiate in low doses providing the opiate isn't that strong. At least in this way you can be healing from the suboxone and still function..


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:35 pm 
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I certainly in my view do not believe that it does not have to be in your heart to jump off. What reason could there be for holding it off? there is more reason to jump off the not. If we think positively, think how beneficial it is to jump off and how bad it is to stay on suboxone then we can cut down that fear and jump off. If we think about how tough the withdrawals and aftermath can be hen that should give us more determination then ever to jump off. If we think going back up i.e yo-yo & spiking may produce more symptoms after jumping then that if anything should say in our heart that am not going to stay any longer on this stuff... If we think it is not in our heart then that is because we simply think like that.

This is not a relationship with a human being but with a pill, and if anything it should be in our a heart to stop taking this pill and move forward in life prompt. We only make it seem it is not in our a heart. If we cannot have it in our heart now then when will we? when is the best time? there is no best time as in now. But it is the choice of people but I would never vouch that is a good idea staying or going on suboxone or even going back higher..One of the reason is you will still feel the same and it would be no different, so it is better to learn to be more determined, to think of the future, to think of your health and to think wisely how better off you can be off suboxone.

.I truly do not believe you have to be a big man or big woman to jump off suboxone, there are more bigger situations out there to be tough in and man or woman up. If we cannot raise our game in jumping off then imagaine how we will cope in tough life situations? just think of other people who are moving forward in life, progressing, living a sober life, are happy, doing well in their careers and relationships, surely we want to be like them to? if we do then lets cut down on being a tad selfish and weak by assuming we will relapse or not make it. Thinking opposite is not impossible.
Again I do not agree with notions of some people that they are glad they are on suboxone or gone back up, that is like saying they are glad you can face more problems then down the line then now..Maybe those people have issues of staying clean and habit of relapsing, and assume others have to be like them, or are simply indenial that not everybody is like them, so to make them feel better they give advice based on their OWN experience. I do not believe that is right.

We are all different and have different thresholds and different personality. We cannot be self-righteous and believe other people's experience will mimic our own or their life will be likes theirs. It is time and better to convince people to come off medications and to support then by telling them they can make it off suboxone, they can have it in their heart, they can rise up and take it on like a man and woman.


Last edited by empire on Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:36 pm 
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I am sorry if some people struggle in life and cannot contain their habit but to make it seem others will face the same situation is quite selfish. Sure it is has harder the older you get but there have been tons of people who have quit all sorts of drugs and never relapsed or touched a drug again,, that is the sort of attitude we should be giving to people and not the other way around making it look they can relapse and are vulnerable...Maybe they hate the fact they are growing old and struggling and do not want not believe others can make it and are younger, so they make it look everybody is in the same boat, well reality check-not everybody is like that and not everybody struggles with cravings..

Maybe some people change and think of more important things such as their family, their job, their relationships, their health, their ambitions etc maybe they simply changed their life and accomplished and achieved a good life, maybe some people struggle to make any sort of life so in turn struggle to stay clean or do drugs, but I believe that comes down to the individual itself, comes down to choices and personality, which by the way I truly believe can change if we want it to. Only we can make our life worth living, only we can accomplish wonders, only we can achieve what we want. If out life is doom and gloom with no partners, no jobs, no social life etc then we are the ones to blame, even then that does not have to lead to relapse or drugs. It really does come down to our personality. We can change our personality for the better, then use that to keep busy, use that to be determined, and in due course kill cravings. We can feel the thoughts of drugs/relapse to be revolting.

Anyway all I can say is good luck and my only advice is to go down again soon as possible and jump off. Best time to be ready is now, there will not a better time no matter what you believe..Sorry about the long posts I just felt I had to explain this deeply as possible to get my thoughts across because this is a sensitive issue and a very important one at that, which can change people's lives.

I just do not believe if other people's life is doom and gloom that they should expect other people's life to be the same. If they had any integrity they would encourage them to get off drugs and support them in telling them their life does not have to be like theirs, and that they do not have to have cravings of fear of relapsing rather then making it look they can fail and how hard it can be. My shrink always use to tell me one of the best ways to stay clean and happy is to be encouraged that you can make it without fear of relapse. triggers and without people telling you oh it will be very hard for you or oh you need so and so in place etc this only instills more fear rater then positivity.. And she by the way is an ex-drug addict, so she knows what can help people psychologically. To me it is plain wrong to encourage one to stay on something which they themselves experienced negative affects/withdrawals. It is as though they want others to go through what they did, which by the way is also common, so you need to trust the right people.

Good luck in whatever you do. Again all I can say is that the thoughts of not feeling ready will always be there unless you change and only you can do that. People have overcome things in the most difficult of circumstances, that proves it comes down to our personality and our open-mindedness. It proves we can change our thinking in any given time and succeed..You can tell yourself now your ready, and in due-course you will feel your ready. I promise!


Last edited by empire on Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:04 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:40 pm 
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Qhorse, I just once again wanted to say Good For You for staying on Suboxone until YOU know you're ready to jump!!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:58 pm 
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I do not agree with forced taper as it should a doctor-patient agreement, not solely the doctor's choice. It shows lack of planning. It (I think) should be the patient's choice and desire to taper down.
That way there is a lack of pressure and makes an easier transition to being off suboxone or subutex.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:17 pm 
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empire wrote:
I truly do not believe you have to be a big man or big woman to jump off suboxone, there are more bigger situations out there to be tough in and man or woman up.


Addiction and learning to live sober is pretty much at the top of the list for most.

empire wrote:
If we cannot raise our game in jumping off then imagaine how we will cope in tough life situations?


Precisely. She hasn't "raised her game" yet.. if that's what we're calling it. So how do you think she'll manage coping with tough life situations?


empire wrote:
We are all different and have different thresholds and different personality. We cannot be self-righteous and believe other people's experience will mimic our own or their life will be likes theirs.


And by this reasoning, I do not tell people when they should get off suboxone, that's their decision. I'll support it either way.

empire wrote:
It is time and better to convince people to come off medications and to support then by telling them they can make it off suboxone, they can have it in their heart, they can rise up and take it on like a man and woman.


We do this all day long. We are all in support of the decision to get off suboxone when a member wants to. If someone's not ready, there is no point to preach about what the right thing to do is.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:31 pm 
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Wow empire, that was quite a response...or two, or three. Just out of curiosity, are you off the subs yet?

There are so many reasons that I have chosen to do what I have done. It is too complicated to go into on a public forum and I have no desire to go into that much detail. Just remember that each person has different needs and has to do things the way that's best for them. I don't disagree with everything you said...but I can't say I read all of it either.

Bottom line...when I do finally get off the subs I will be sure I'm strong enough to avoid a relapse. I don't see getting off the suboxone and jumping straight back to other opiates as a step in the right direction. If that seem acceptible to you, then we are coming at things from an entirely different place and I don't see any way to reconcile our views on this.

You have a right to your opinion though. We can just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Q

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:40 pm 
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Im glad you figured out whats right for YOU q, and im glad your back too!

Have a good night, chica!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:05 pm 
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Horsegal, if you say you were not ready, then you weren't ready. It's as simple as that. I support you doing whatever you need to stay in recovery.

A self-righteous attitude comes from believing that you know better than another person how things should be done. If Horsegal has made a decision about her use of suboxone and others are supporting her, no one is showing a self-righteous attitude. On the other hand, if another member is telling Horsegal that she is wrong in what she has decided and that others are wrong in supporting her, then that member is being completely self-righteous. It's fine to have a different opinion and to express it, but leave the judgement behind. You have a better chance of influencing others when you don't offend them in the process.

Amy

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:08 am 
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Thank you Amy, that was well said!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:01 pm 
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Hey Horsegal,

Just wanted you to know that I was thinking about you and hope that your doing well. I support your decision like I said before and I know when your ready you will do what's best for YOU!

I think it actually took strength and courage to do what you did. This has to be what's in YOUR best interest all the way.

Just wanted to say hello and hope you continue to update when possible. Take care and have a nice day!

Karen xoxo


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