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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 1:27 pm 
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I am not talking about bioavailability.....you absorb the same amount quicker with sub dissolved in watery ham strip or tablet form....this allows less time for her to swallow part of her dose.......bioavailability has nothing to do with what I'm suggesting its all about how quick she absorbs it minimizing loss from swallowing her dose.....she can also absolutely be more accurate with a liquid because it increases the surface area of the drug she is using, being accurate will greatly reduce ups and downs and speed up her stabilization.....is that ok movie maker ?


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 1:29 pm 
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^^^ *Ham*....than...


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 11:47 am 
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I do believe that half a drop is pretty rough....is there any way to call them and let the doctor know that the drop is too strong and u are uncomfortable.? all good wishes too u . yeah! u are down sooo low . I am rootin for u and I know you are tough but its okay to say that the drop is too much.


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:01 pm 
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You are already way below where I got when I jumped and I was surprised at the absence of severe w/d symptoms. It's more about energy, temp issues, anxiety, being uncomfortable in general, and of course, lack of sleep. So, really, when you taper this low, you're going through a lot of that stuff already.

Wishing you the best of luck, Q! Try not to think about it too much. Go as low as you can but you're in a good spot already if you had to jump or ran out. So, try not to stress about that. Also, the first waves of being uncomfortable when you're tapering, I have found, tend to go away if you push through. It's almost like an immediate response we have to take more at the first sign of a chill, etc. If you ignore those first signs of the sub "wearing off," you could realize that it's not that bad.. that's what I found.

Are you taking a split dose? For me, it was easier to take less in the am and suffer through the day a bit so I could have enough to be comfortable at night. Sleep is important..


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 2:00 pm 
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Thanks for the encouragement Wishy and Tiny...Yes, I'm splitting my dose. But I am taking more in the morning so that I have the energy to take care of the kids, the house, and all that other Mommy stuff right now. For the past three days I have taken .5mg in the morning and .25mg at night. I seem to do pretty well with that, I start feeling kinda bad about 5 or 6 o'clock and try to push through until after 8 pm before taking my nightly dose so that I can have a bit in my system to help me sleep better. So far it's working out ok...

But I started working out again yesterday. I have been doing a terrible job of staying consistent with workouts the past couple months. So I thought I would try some yoga, you know...low impact but good for working the muscles. OMG...I underestimated the strain it was putting on my muscles. LOL...I did two sets instead of one because I thought I wasn't feeling it enough yesterday. Boy do I feel it today! I still feel pretty good though. The cravings are still at a minimum, and I'm not feeling alot of WD symptoms throughout most of the day since going back up to .75mg. So, all in all I think I'm doing pretty good so far!

Thanks so much for sharing your experience Tiny...it is so good to read positive posts at this point. I know all the things that could go wrong, I'm well aware that it might be hard as hell. But I like to try to stay positive...I know that going into it being afraid of the "what if's" is the wrong thing to do. I am trying to stay in the moment, not worry about how hard it might be later. Just like you said above, it's almost a knee jerk reaction that at the first sign of discomfort we have trained ourselves to reach for that something to make us feel better. I am learning to deal with a little discomfort and work my way through it...which oddly enough is a rewarding feeling.

I hope you all have a great day!

Q


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 2:16 pm 
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I had to stop yoga while I was tapering towards my lowest point. Simply holding a pose is really straining, as I'm sure you know. I didn't start back up until a couple months afterwards. If you do anything right now, I'd suggest just walking. This is just my opinion of course. Plus, any straining and sweating is going to help you blow through your dose quicker which can backfire if you end up reaching for more to feel better. The stretching part of yoga is good to do daily but flowing through actual repetitions is going to wear you out. This is just from my personal experience. If you feel yoga is helping you than by all means, stick to it.

Yes, positive thinking is good and helpful but so is fear. For me, I was so afraid of the actual jumping that I was almost relieved to go through the w/d process when it actually came down to it. That fear helped create such a contrast between expectations and reality. Don't get me wrong, it was NOT fun, but not nearly as I expected thanks to all that fear that built up. So, keep a positive outlook but fear can be good too. :D


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 Post subject: Doing Great
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 2:21 pm 
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Hi qhg,

I apologize for not posting on your thread earlier. But you know how it is with us mods.

You are doing so great! I too got down to 1 mg and like you said, I couldn't believe how strong the Bupe is at low doses. TD had some good advice about jumping. Suffer now or suffer later. Awhile back we had a member here who tapered down to very low doses. She had all sorts of w/d symptoms while tapering down. Once she finally jumped off she said the w/d's were next to nothing because she had already been through the worst of it while tapering. Just something to keep in mind. Plus, considering you've never done this before you don't know for sure how easy or bad the w/d's will be. Either way, I hope to see you posting as an ex Sub member.

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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 3:27 pm 
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Hey Q~Sista!!! I have been away for a few days or has it been a few weeks? IDK.. I AM SO THRILLED to see where you are at Q!!! GREAT that you are splitting your dose.... That helped me a lot in the end...
When I tapered, i got down to a very small small amount less than 1/8 and I was there for a day or 2. I was SHOCKED at the LACK of WD I experienced when I finally stopped sub. Main symptom was LETHARGY....thats it!.....after 3 weeks I really was starting to get energy back, (but then I f'ed up).... I forced myself to power walk every day even if for only 20 min. I juiced daily and took multi vitimins. Try those EmergenC thingys 3 X a day... They WORK! Keep trucking girl and I know you will be fine...SO MANY ppl have been right where you are and made it thru. SO will YOU! GOSH I AM excited for you.. Once you dont have to EVER think about your friggen dose again, the relief carries you thru and prayer does the rest..... BEST WISHES friend...... YOU GOT THIS ALREADY BEAT!


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:14 pm 
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Threads like these with the love and support that are shown are why I LOVE THIS FORUM!!!

But, I could do without all the silly yoga talk, yoga is for babies......holding a pose, puh-lease!! :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:24 pm 
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Romeo...your first sentence is exactly what I was going to say! I'm going to pretend the second sentence didn't exist. :D

Really, you guys made my afternoon much better. Thank you so much for all the kind words.

Sweet...you have no idea how inspiring you are. Love ya sista!


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 6:39 am 
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Hey horsegal, I read this thread yesterday, and I noticed you started it on such a positive note, and then a bunch of naysayers chimed in to say how horrible it was going to be to drop by 0.5mg. Don't listen to that shit. Do it YOUR way and hold on to your positive attitude. You're going to be fine, I promise. Us drug addicts spend more time fearing and worrying about withdrawal than we actually spend in withdrawal. It's a waste. When I taperd off of Sub last time around I went from 1 to 0.5 to 0.25, but 0.25 felt the same to me as nothing so I just stopped. I really didn't have any of the classic opiate WD symptoms (except chills, which I can live with). The main thing was the lethargy, low energy and low motivation. The problem was I was JUDGING myself for having no motivation, and got really pissed off and depressed. If you can accept the fact that you will be very low functioning for about three weeks you will be OK. In the scheme of things three weeks is nothing. From the vantage point of being opiate free for 11 weeks, I say just do it. Rip the band-aid off. It's so worth it to go through some pain to get to a place of feeling 100% better. IMHO dragging out a taper for months just prolongs the agony.

Two people have already said this, but it's worth saying again. Getting off Sub is the easy part. Staying clean is the hard part. If people put as much thought and energy into their recovery plan as they did to their taper plan then we would really have something here. You mentioned not wanting to goto NA until you were off Subs. When I tapered I started to go to NA while I was still ON Subs. I told people where I was at and got to know people so when I did get to that zero Sub point I had support. Nobody judged me for being on Sub, and in fact many people congratulated me for my efforts to taper off. I'm not telling you what to do, but just think about it. You're not going to want to go out and meet new people when you're lethargic and have no motivation.

BTW I think yoga is great for detox - more the mental part and not so much the physical part when you're really not feeling good. I think you are doing an awesome job and I wish you all the best.

Lilly


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 Post subject: Down to .5!!!
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:47 pm 
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Hey all!

I thought I would update this and let you guys know I've made my next drop to .5mg. I'm amazed at how much easier it is since I slowed down a little! I hadn't planned on making the drop until today, but I felt so good yesterday that I thought I would give it a try. Success!!! I am doing fine.

I have noticed a couple things though that I thought I would mention. When I was on the higher doses it seemed like I would get the maximum effect about an hour after dosing. Since getting below 1mg I feel better an hour after, but the maximum relief seems to hit between 2-3 hours after taking it. Kind of odd, I'm not sure why that's happening but it kind of makes it easier to schedule my doses twice a day. The other thing is, I'm noticing a pretty big difference in the severity of my WD symptoms when my dose wears off. My major symptom now tends to be that icky, creepy-crawly, anxious feeling. If I wait way too long to take my evening dose I still get the pain, but it's not NEARLY as bad as it used to be. Dare I say this might be progress???

I hope everyone has a great weekend. I'm sending special love out to all of you WARRIOR MOMS who are fighting addiction along with me!!!!

-Q


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:15 pm 
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Okay, time for an update.

I had my last doctor appointment this past Tuesday. I have been doing well at .5mg, but a couple days before my appointment I started letting my fear get the best of me. I spent two days dwelling on the end of my treatment and started having crazy cravings that I know I totally brought on myself. I mentioned to my husband the night before that I was dreading the appointment, and his response was that I should be excited to be done. Which was right on, and he was trying to be supportive...but I felt judged and as if he was dismissing how difficult it was going to be. Again, I was having a bad attitude and I guess I just wanted someone to feel sorry for me.

I knew going into the appointment that I would probably only get 4 of the 2mg strips to complete my taper. But by the night before I was already hoping for a couple extra strips that I could sneak away and take as I wanted to when I felt bad. Great idea huh????? Seriously, my brain was in overdrive trying to figure out a way to do things MY way. Nevermind that MY way never worked before. Well, the doctor only gave me 4...and he also denied my request for clonodine to help with the end of my taper. Why? I have no idea...he seems to think it will feed into the addict behavior of taking a pill to feel better instead of dealing with it and moving on.

So, of course I was frustrated when I left the office. And for me, that spells disaster. I was pissed off, and I was ready to just say F it and do what I wanted to do. I still wanted to slip one of my strips out and hide it and tell my husband I only got three. I had this whole story worked up. I was going to tell him that I mentioned to the doctor I had a few left over from two months ago, and when he found that out he decided to only give me 3 instead of 4. Then I would go home and doctor the prescription label to show less than was prescribed. Nevermind that I would have probably gotten caught. I never let that stop me before, and by that time I would have what I wanted. I know it's crazy, but rational thinking in the middle of a craving isn't my strong suit.

Well, somehow during my drive home I decided I would wait until I got home to open the strip. Then, I thought maybe I should call someone and try to talk this through before I made that decision. Honestly, I didn't want anyone to talk me out of it. But somehow I found the few seconds of strength to make at least one call...inwardly hoping they wouldn't have time to talk. Any of this sounding familiar to any of you????

I didn't get an immediate answer, but I decided to give it a few more minutes and do something I knew would calm me down. I went and saddled up my old trusty and rode for about an hour and a half. Got the return call as soon as I got home. Just talking it out and having my feelings validated was huge. It gave me the strength to finally call my husband and confess my thoughts to him, and finally put it to rest. After 3 days of driving myself crazy I finally put it down.

I can't believe I made it through the day without messing up. I was sure I was going to. I realized within an hour that I had the control over my feelings and cravings all along and just dwelling on it made it grow bigger and bigger until I shut the door. HUGE bonus!

I stayed at .5mg the next day, then dropped to .375 on Thursday and have been there since. I was still trying to split my dose, taking .25 in the morning and then .125 at night. But it wasn't doing the trick. I don't get full relief of the achy legs and anxiety/creeps with just .25 in the a.m. and then that .125 dose doesn't even feel like I have taken anything. So today I took my full dose in the morning. I'm doing well right now, but I know by this evening I will start feeling it again. I am trying to stay busy and push through it. I know it will get better in a few days, and having this week behind me is a huge relief. I kind of feel like if I can make it through what I did on Tuesday I can make it through anything! I have been my own worst enemy through most of my addiction, and I feel a bit of hope that I am starting to find the tools to help myself instead of harming myself.

Sorry this is so long. I just wanted to get this out there and have it here so I can read it again if I'm having a hard time. I HAVE to remember to keep that door shut. It's shut right now, but I need to find a freaking big ass lock to put on it for when I get completely off the subs. I keep saying that I'm going to go to an NA meeting, but I haven't done it yet. I am commiting myself to find one this week and go to at least two. I'm hoping some of you here will hold me accountable to this. I know I need it, so don't let me get away with making some lame excuse for not going K?

Crap, I feel like I need to put some kind of a closing here to my novel.

How bout' - Fin (The End would be too boring)


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:34 pm 
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hey qhorse,

thats awesome you made it through that tough spot, and good for you deciding to call someone, and also telling your husband the truth about what you were thinking about and feeling...you told on your addiction and thats a good thing...rather than letting it build up and acting on it.

i hope you make the decision to go to aa/na to further yourself in your recovery...and i think its good to have other recovering addicts to talk to and have people who have/are going through the same things as you. get someone you can call when cravings start or just to talk through stuff.

keep updating us for support, good luck girl!!!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:41 pm 
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You did an amazing job overcoming the urge to use an extra Suboxone. You were pretty deep in, but caught yourself, knew you needed help AND reached out for help......WOW, good job!!!!

Q said, "I have been my own worst enemy through most of my addiction, and I feel a bit of hope that I am starting to find the tools to help myself instead of harming myself." That hope you're feeling is a nice feeling, isn't it? :wink:

You're doing good Q, keep working it.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:15 pm 
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I'm very proud of you! When you look at the long haul that may have been just one day, but every day is important and every decision you make in furtherance of your recovery is important and a step in the right direction.

Don't feel bad at all that you only caught yourself by the skin of your teeth! It is huge that you didn't react impulsively and gave yourself time to make a different decision. Kudos to you!

Amy

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:56 pm 
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Thanks guys!

It does feel good to come through a day like that and feel proud of myself instead of trying to scramble and cover up what I did wrong.

I just got off the phone with a girl I met in the AA group I attended last year. She has been through Suboxone treatment, and at the time I thought she was off of it, but realized today she has only finished treatment in December. I tried to go back to that group about a month ago and found out it had folded. She told me the closest NA group is about 40 minutes from me. She gave me a contact number to call to find out details of the meeting days, and a good dose of encouragement.

I might be updating a bit more since I'm getting down to the nitty-gritty. You guys always help me feel better!

:D :D :D


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:32 am 
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hey qhorse,

ive been thinking about you lately...wondering how everything went with the rest of your taper/jump off suboxone. I havent heard from you around here lately, so i hope your doing well. Please update either way!


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:46 am 
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Sorry I left you hangin' guys. I just now saw this latest post...

Well, I made it down to .25mg and just couldn't make the jump. I just realize that I'm not ready yet. I've gone back up to 1mg per day and I'm going to hang here for a bit until I feel ready to try again.

My main issue was the fact that I was pressured into jumping. I wasn't doing it because I wanted it...even though I really tried to get myself there. When it came down to it I was only doing it because I felt I had no choice, and I knew it wasn't going to stick.

Thanks for your concern BD. I wish I had better news to report.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:37 pm 
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Sorry to hear you had problems and couln't jump qhorsegal. I do understand it being in that situation recently even though it was at a higher dose than that. I was at 2mg for quite some time down from a high of 24mgs and tried to jump from that many times and just couldn't do it. I felt horrible, and defeated by not being able to make the successful jump.

So I began tapering lower and today I reduced from 1.75mg down to 1.50mg and so far it's going ok for me. I just wanted you to know I'm in your corner and support you all the way. Maybe we can support each other and do our best to get off this stuff? If I can help in any way just let me know.

I'm curious as to why you didn't feel the jump from .25mg was right for you at the time? I know you said you were "pressured", but did you also have symptoms that kept you from it that were just too much to handle? Maybe the reasons you couldn't do it will help me when I get there? I'm reducing by .25mg increments which is a lot and I know that, but for ME it's the way I going with it.

Anyway hang in there ok. I'm sure when the time is right you will do fine and get off the sub. Take care and have a great day!

Karen
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