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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:14 pm 
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Its better to be informed then misinformed or not be informed at all. Its better to know what can happen then not to know. False hope is one of the reasons people relapse too. Its better to be prepared psychologically so when you cross that bridge you can be mentally ready or even have alternatives/plans in place.

Of course suboxone is different to other opiates, as you put it-it does linger on then others, thats one of the problems with suboxone's side affects, and why people just cannot get off.

How do you know I have ever done suboxone? I could be a doctor for all you know. But I will say this-I have studied suboxone for almost a decade, so I believe I do know what I am talking about. When almost every suboxone users reports of the same experience then its time to reflect and look at the substance.

Its better to warn folks of the potential problems so they can make an informed decision. If a person is going through withdrawals and PAWS they can be shocked and assume something is wrong with them, b ut when you know it can be the suboxone at least people "know" its not just them, this can go a long way in helping people for the future. I am more or less trying to help those folks who are thinking of going on suboxone or just started it. They have a right to know peoples experiences and what can happen down the line, especially stopping suboxone.

One of the problem is that many patients just simply cannot wait months and months and years for PAWS to finish, that is no life to live. So its best to inform newbies this can occur, who knows it may even save their months and years of PAWS and the evil depression which comes with post-suboxone.

If you take a look around boards you'll see more and more people claiming methadone PAWS and withdrawals do not last long as suboxone and do not give you such a big depression. An old lady quit a 10 year methadone habit and claimed the symptoms lasted about 4 months, whereas for example 1 year suboxone users are claiming they are having issues 6 months down the line...Imagine if someone was on suboxone for 10 years and how long the symptoms will last for them? we got to be balances in our approach, look at all sides and compare all sides and experiences.

Most do relapse after suboxone then other opiates, yes there are other opiates which male people relapse but considering how long the suboxone has been available the relapse rates are staggering. People who relapse on other opiates do not really relapse because of withdrawals and PAWS from those opiates, but suboxone withdrawals and PAWS cause people to relapse the most. This is my take on it on the basis of what I have read and seen.

I hope all the newbies and folks who have just started suboxone can make a informed decision in what they want to do. Staying on suboxone for life I believe should never be an option. It does eventually medicate you to the extent of not knowing what your are doing and in being n a dense fog, you lose interest in your social life, sex life, career, even television amongst other things. So please if all of you got a heart warn other potential suboxone users about these things, its unfair not to inform them or what can take place and what others are going through. It may even be the best decision they ever made.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:14 am 
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Hessler, you're a fucking jackass who talks a lot of shit.

Have you been on methadone? What kinda practical experience do you have? All's your going on is a bunch of whinging twats on forums like subsux and bluelight with their big pharma conspiracy theories.

I was one of those guys a while back. You know what the main motivation behind the people who twist the truth and try to make themselves believe Suboxone is worse than other opioids? It's a desire to relapse, it's a kinda self-justification to return to using the drugs that make them really feel a buzz. Just one of the typical distortions of thought that come from addiction.

Harden up a bit. Stop being such a sook and a scare monger. Most people stopped listening to your shit 10 posts ago simply because you're a fucking broken record and a fucking sook who just bitches and moans and gets people down. Can't you say something nice for once? (Irony notwithstanding :lol: )


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:04 am 
OMG I will stop taking suboxone at once now I'm informed, thanks Hess

No wait, shit, I'm a heroin addict, suboxone is helping me change my life, what do I do ?

Please advise Hess ???


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:23 am 
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helping people to not take subs. are you sure your helping them or trying to kill them?
in your mind you doomed all the people on the medication and thanks a lot ASS HOLE

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:18 am 
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Thanks hessler for finally letting us put the freestyle forum to good use! :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:37 am 
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TeeJay wrote:
Thanks hessler for finally letting us put the freestyle forum to good use! :lol:


Lol. You think DoaQ had that in mind when she moved his post here? Sneaky. I like it.


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 Post subject: Studying
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:39 pm 
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So you have been researching Suboxone for 10 years and still can't post a link to any proof of what you're saying? Someone else's opinion does not count as science so please post those medical articles you studied so long.

And BTW people, I learned something new. Last week I ate some carrots and later that day I stubbed my toe. Believe me this is for real. I know 5 other people who did the same thing so it must be the truth.

Beware, the evil carrot will do in your big toe.

You don't have to believe me, just research it for yourself.

Thanks All, I needed to do that. Yea, maybe improper behavior for a Mod but then I am only human.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 5:01 pm 
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Lol wow I love this free style section!!!!!!

There are ways of informing people and there is what you do by telling people! Who the fuck are you to tell people suboxone is the devil and will ruin your life. Bro anyone on this forum can tell you I hate suboxone with a passion but never in my right mind would i tell anyone it can't help save a persons life. Every medication has side effects and yes suboxone are not great but I rather see people deal with side effects than continue to kill themselves in the threshold of addiction.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 6:55 pm 
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Beware, the evil carrot will do in your big toe.




THATS IT!!!! Im throwing those carrots out!!!!!! Just bought some, and was going to feed them to my child!!!!!!
thanks for the life-saving (toe saving) information, RULE62

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:37 pm 
Wow, nice people here. You are getting some great opposing arguments Hessler. Shown with class and respect. HA! I'm not here to make freinds or try to be curtious anymore. This guy is giving his experience on suboxone and personally I agree. I was hating suboxone so much after being on it for a year, i wanted to commit suicide. All hessler is saying is Suboxone is a great tool if used as a step down tool. And i agree. The relapse rate is so high for people that stop taking suboxone is because they cant stand the months and years of PAWS and depression so they will put any opiate in there system. This is a forum people not a fight to kill areana you classless bores. Thanks for your input Hessler, whether its wrong or right in my eyes. Its yours.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:42 pm 
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Winning, have you noticed that we classless bores are only giving you and Hessler shit? There are a bunch of other active threads right now where people are getting great support and information, but for some mysterious reason, only you and Hessler are catching shit. Why is that?

I mentioned this to you earlier, at some point in time, you're going to have to look in the mirror for the problem.

Dude, I know how hard it is to look in the mirror and to smash through that denial you're in, but at some point in time, you're going to have to do it or you're doomed to continue repeating your same old behaviors and you'll get the same old responses to your threads.

I'm pretty sure this post will inevitably put you into full defensiveness mode and that only goes to show how deep your denial runs. Are you feeling extremely defensive right now?? That's your denial bud.

You'll put up one decent post, but follow it with three stupid ones, then cry foul when you get called on it.

Da Nile is not just a river in Egypt, man.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:08 pm 
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Winning,

No, Hessler is not speaking from his own experience. From his first post it's clear that where he is getting his information is secondhand from others, but that he is writing as if it is fact, not someone's opinion. Here is a link to his first post:

http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=5 ... ght=#56625

In it, he tells laddertipper that the only reason she has kept off sub is because she is taking a small dose of klonopin, and that otherwise she would relapse, because suboxone is impossible to successfully withdraw from. He also scared a newbie by implying that suboxone gives you brain lesions, with nothing but hearsay from one doctor to back it up. He wrote as if several things were proven fact, then, when we suggested that he needed to back up his assertions with scientific evidence, he told us that people should just believe him based on his 10 years of study on suboxone. He shouldn't have to provide evidence.

People should be able to come on this forum and read about peoples' actual experiences. They should be able to read that some folks aren't really bothered by sub's side effects, and that others, like yourself, felt suicidal on suboxone. They should read that some people believe that suboxone saved their life, and that if some others could go back in time and do it again, they wouldn't touch suboxone. None of us believe that suboxone should be whitewashed and put on a pedestal as being best way to get off an opiate habit. But we should let Hessler come on here and say that suboxone is all bad unless you use it as a quick taper, without challenging his opinions, which are not even from his own experience??? No, not while I'm alive and kicking.

Hessler started the rudeness. Hessler is reaping what he has sown.

Even though you've admitted to and apologized for making up alter egos just to stir the pot, it doesn't seem like you have it all out of your system yet. I suppose that maturity comes with time.

Amy

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 Post subject: Wow
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:15 pm 
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Only winning duh would agree with hessler. In this case it's helps accentuate his need to be the victim.

-gb


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:56 pm 
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I'm just waiting for hessler to start pushing kratom..


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:02 am 
Denial? HAHAHA no sorry man. Your mind games will not work. And its not everyone against me. It's many against me. The ones that disagree. There is nothing wrong with me in which you are leading on. I have strong opinions that differ greatly from most of you. I think you couldn't live with yourself if some of you had my opinions , thats all it is.

I'm just tired of this double standard b/s . You guys act as nasty as you want to other members and then have the nerve to tell me to look in the mirror. This whole forum can be ugly as hell, just like human nature sometimes. If people agree with you, they are your friends but if not.... you dont have the slightest clue what open minded is or how great it can be for solving problems and for mankind itself. Maybe I will stay soley on having you take a better look at yourselves.

Hessler did make some interesting points and in some cases he was spot on in my own experience. But he is an "asshole" And you can make all the sny comments you want about him with your noses so high in the sky. See what i'm saying? I was man enough to appologize, which i still stand by. But name calling and undermining attitudes against others is not only unproductive to anyones sobriety but it is against the forums rules and is just a bully's action. I honestly woulndt even point all this out if everythign i said wasnt put under a microscope and scrutinized. I just dont take shit from people who think they can treat others how they please.

Say what you want but its simple. I was always the one helping the kid up who just got beaten up on the playground. Maybe some of you where doin the beatings or where just joining in to fit in. It really does seem like this on some of your posts.


Last edited by Winningduhepic on Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:02 am 
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Winningduhepic wrote:
Wow, nice people here. You are getting some great opposing arguments Hessler. Shown with class and respect. HA! I'm not here to make freinds or try to be curtious anymore. This guy is giving his experience on suboxone and personally I agree. I was hating suboxone so much after being on it for a year, i wanted to commit suicide. All hessler is saying is Suboxone is a great tool if used as a step down tool. And i agree. The relapse rate is so high for people that stop taking suboxone is because they cant stand the months and years of PAWS and depression so they will put any opiate in there system. This is a forum people not a fight to kill areana you classless bores. Thanks for your input Hessler, whether its wrong or right in my eyes. Its yours.


You might want to read all his post! He's not sharing input he is stating all his claims are facts because his supposed 10 years of research. Lol your in the free style arena you are in the wrong part of this forum if you aspect class to be shown to people like this guy. And bro people don't disrespect you because you have very strong different views on suboxone people disrespect you because of how you have carried yourself on this forum. I also have a very different view on suboxone and people are not teaming up on me in this thread.

Beware the evil carrot is here in buffalo now.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:12 am 
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I swear Hessler has been on this board before with another name.

I just remember there being someone going on about having "10 years of research" and causing a stink on the forum with exactly the same kinda attitude.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 5:41 am 
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can we say how much of his story is true. i don't want to go were it hurts" and it hurts enough to know the things we are all ready going through. i believe hessler is about 10 - 20% true but not sure where. if there is some truth' where?

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 Post subject: Omg
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:25 am 
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Hey winning...or should be WHINING...Hahahaha......thought your ass was out of here...seeeeee, you are the crazy boy I said u were! You are so far into this shit, u cannot even GO AWAY...when YOU PROMISED all of us you would....WHY OH WHY did u stay? :evil: :twisted: :P :( :lol: :?:


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:50 pm 
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Bboy42287 wrote:
Lol your in the free style arena you are in the wrong part of this forum if you aspect class to be shown to people like this guy. And bro people don't disrespect you because you have very strong different views on suboxone people disrespect you because of how you have carried yourself on this forum. I also have a very different view on suboxone and people are not teaming up on me in this thread.

Beware the evil carrot is here in buffalo now.


Yes, this is true. Winningduhepic, its your actions as a 'whole' the entire attitude, that people are talking about. you try and pick apart one thing someone says, and say they are picking on you, but this is not the case.
I dont think you are a bad person, or anything like that.
However, I think you DO get a lil defensive, when you dont need to be. Just like Diary's post to you, made so much sense, I really loved her post. Many of us should listen to MUCH of that information. but right outta the gate, you thought she was being mean, when really she probably took 30mins out of her day, to give you some REALLY good advise, straight from the heart.

Im just calling it like I see it. I dont want to argue with you.
If you want respect, just show some. Although, it may be too late.

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its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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