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 Post subject: heroin to help induction
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:49 pm 
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Hello all! I am new to this form and have not found much information about this topic around the internet. I don't want to get too much into my back story, but I have successfully been on suboxone maintenance before, but have unfortunately been using black tar for the past 6 months. I have been using about a gram a day. I have tried and failed three times now to induct back onto suboxone. I feel very little relief from the subxone when I take it. I wait AT-LEAST 24 hours and make sure I am well over the score on COWS. I would just suffer through the first few days, but I work with my family and they cannot know about my relapse. I cannot get time off and don't have weekends, just a random two days off every week and very rarely are the consecutively in a row. This week I have off Wednesday and Friday for example.
Anyways, I have read a couple places that using a little bit of heroin a few hours after you dose your subxone takes away the residual withdrawal symptoms. Does anyone have any experience or advice for me in my situation? I really want to get off dope. I am so done. I am working hard on myself in therapy and I'm ready to live a clean, sober life. Just help!!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:27 am 
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Hey ka welcome to the forum!

I don't know anything about heroin or black tar or even how potent it is because it's something I never tried. Are u waiting long enough, is 24 hrs enough time? I waited 32 hrs and I was using oxy, I know heroin is stronger than that. Do u get suboxone from a dr? What dose are u trying during ur induction, is it high enough? Sorry to ask so many questions but if we can find out more we maybe can help u more.

I just don't think it's ever a good idea to bring ur doc bk into the mix when ur trying to get into recovery. Usually when u still feel lousy after ur induction, ur not getting enough suboxone or it's precipitated withdrawal. If it's pw then ur not waiting long enough after ur last dose of heroin to ur induction. But even if u feel bad after induction most doctors recommend just keep dosing ur regular dose and the sub will eventually win out and you'll start feeling much better.

Hopefully someone with better experience with heroin can offer more helpful advice. I hope u get it all sorted out and you'll start feeling better soon!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:16 pm 
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Thank you for your reply!
I am an IV addict who uses 1/2 a gram to a gram a day. Heroin is a faster acting opiate than Oxys and leaves your system in 12-24 hours. I take 8 mg in the morning and 8 at night of suboxone. The thing about suboxone is that it has a ceiling effect, meaning at a certain dose it doesn't help. So a 16 mg dose and a 32 mg dose wouldn't have different effects. You can research it. I hope someone replies because I start my subs tomorrow morning. There is absolutely no way I can get off work :( also, I am getting my subs from a doctor, not off the street. I am doing this properly because I am so done with dancing with the devil that is heroin.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:10 pm 
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Hey ka welcome. I used to swap back and forth between heroin and subs a lot back when I used, I've also gotten some heroin right after taking suboxone a few times and it didn't do a damn thing just a waste. I always felt a few withdrawal symptoms for a few days when getting off the dope and on too suboxone. I think if you just stay busy you should make it through fine I don't reccomend using the heroin will likely do nothing but harm.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:50 pm 
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I agree with the prior comments. Buprenorphine binds with much greater affinity (tightness basically). A very large dose of heroin would eventually out-compete buprenorphine, just as oxycodone, fentanyl, or Dilaudid will. But a 'small' dose of heroin will be blocked completely. Even when a large dose of agonist is used to out-compete buprenorphine, for example after surgery, patients always say the same thing--- that they never 'felt' anything. Their pain went down, but there were none of those old opioid feelings.

People have posted in the past about being disatisfied with buprenorphine because they didn't 'feel it'. I don't know if THAT is the issue-- if you are expecting something, when it just doesn't work that way? Or if the problem is that your tolerance is so high that you are not able to tolerate the blocking effects of buprenorphine? The latter idea sounds like it may apply, except I've had patients with very high tolerances change to buprenorphine without major difficulty. I've had two female patients who had tolerance over 800 mg of oxycodone per day, for example. Patients in that position typically feel mild withdrawal symptoms for a day or two after induction--- but nothing bad enough to cause them to leave treatment.

Whatever is causing the problem, the best solution, in my opinion, is to stay off all opioids as long as possible... and then induce with Suboxone (or another buprenorphine product). You mention you can't get consecutive days off.... but that's really what you NEED. Tolerance drops the fastest in the first few days-- so I'd try to go 72 hours before induction.

Good luck!


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