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 Post subject: good shit
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:41 pm 
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Addicts crawling in filthy asian streets,begging for dope money. Some suffer more than most, some not quite enough.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:42 pm 
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Breezy_Ann wrote:
The rules are clearly posted and you know your post is breaking them. This is an official warning, if you continue to question and show no respect for the op's recovery further measures will be taken.

I do not understand why anyone would assume to know what is best for someone else. This is a support site for people that have made their choice. Once again the saying applies, if you can't say something nice then don't say anything at all.

OP, I think it's great that you've turned your life around. If staying on Sub gives you the best quality of life then you are doing the right thing. Of course taking medication for the rest of your life isn't ideal but you weren't dealing with ideal circumstances. I am glad you can let this criticism roll of your back. I do not know why there is so much negativity here lately but I can assure you it is not the norm. You deserve support and respect for your choice of recovery and any further judgement of your recovery will not be tolerated. I apologize for your treatment in this thread and hope you stick around. Congratulations on your recovery and realizing what you need to do to make it last.


I really don't have much more to say regarding statements that have been posted AFTER you said this. There is OBVIOUSLY some personal issue that a poster has with me, although this guy doesn't know me from Adam's housecat..so I'm unsure as to WHY he's stated the obvious hostilities and posted such unhelpful comments toward me regarding MY OWN DECISIONS.

Ironic wrote:
Please show me where in this thread I have broken these rules. I looked and looked but couldn't see.

Please tell me why OP is allowed to call me "an addict in active addiction," with no backlash but I'm being rebuked for..what? Asking a real question?

OP you can call me "an addict in active addiction" all you want, but YOU are the one seeking to spend the rest of your life on pills, NOT me. Sounds like wishful thinking on your part, or maybe you're just projecting.

The long term effects of Sub have so far shown to be largely the same as other opiates, because they're all opiates. If you wanna pretend it's 100% safe, go ahead, but that would be YOU distorting reality.

Me calling roxis and stuff "the good shit" isn't distorting reality. If there wasn't something good about how it makes you feel, no one would need Suboxone.

P.S. Mods, if you wanna ban me, just do it. If you wanna pretend it's gonna be for breaking some forum rule that is never actually followed by anyone, just tell yourselves that.


Dude, do you realize that I've joined this site less than a month ago, and you're all over everything that I say with your negative, disruptive, and instigating comments? You've said NOTHING but things towards me in every response and reply that totally disband my recovery and the method that I've chosen to be best for me. Talk about one hell of a welcome committee, I was barely a member here for ONE week before you lashed out, and it's been nothing positive from you since then. What kind of person are you to come to a site with recovering addicts and do NOTHING but spout off these comments about "good shit" and such...is this your way of one-uping yourself to be better than those of us who chose Suboxone? Are you any better of a person than me because I have made my decisions but they don't coincide with your life, so you make as many disparaging remarks as possible in order to accomplish some self-administered goal that you have set for yourself? I'm curious to know your motive, because you're sure as hell not being nice, and I damn sure didn't come here to gain ANYONE'S approval or permission. But I don't go making derogatory and disparaging remarks to other members here either, and I don't run around posting to addicts that "I'd be on the good shit if ________"

In fact, the only thing "negative" that I have had to do on this site since I joined is RESPOND TO YOU..and that ends......NOW. Keep talking, but I'm not obligated to reply to you or your accusations and disparaging remarks. Inferiority. Complex. Present.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:27 pm 
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jonathanm1978 wrote:
... ESPECIALLY when the decisions are for long-term use of Suboxone and not long-term use or reverting back to OPIATE PAINKILLERS.


Suboxone IS an OPIATE PAINKILLER

Buprenorphine is one of the Bentley compounds derived from an alkaloid of the plant Papaver somniferum (the opium poppy), known as thebaine.

Buprenorphine has an extremely high binding affinity at the µ- and κ-opioid receptor. It has partial agonist activity at the µ-opioid receptor, partial or full agonist activity at the ORL1/nociceptin and δ-opioid receptor, and competitive antagonist activity at the κ-opioid receptor.


Suboxone wiki page


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:25 am 
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Suboxone is a partial opiate agonist whereas "regular" pain pills are full opiate agonists.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:02 am 
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In response to "Romeo"

I can't believe you experienced exactly what I did !!! I also had a long addiction (dating to years before I had 2 surgeries) and by the last year or so before I quit, my pain was getting worse and worse. I kept thinking my surgery not only didn't work, but made me worse off. I went to 2 different doctors after and no one could tell me why this was happening. I knew I also had a "raging addiction" and had to quit. I figured, what ever my pain level would be after I quit had to be easier to deal with then the addiction and the withdrawal I'd feel each month when I ran out of pills before I was suppose to. But to my surprise, by day 3 or so of being on Suboxone, my pain level decreased so much that I was amazed. NO knee and leg pain, NO shoulder pain, very little back pain. (Thanks for the Advil tip, I'll have to try it !!!) So I totally get when you said "you believe your addiction manufactured alot of the pain to get you to use" And, no that doesnt sound "Cuckoo" You hit the nail on the head so to speak !!!!! I GET IT !

One more thing, you mentioned "Opoid-induced hyperalgesia" long time opiate use can cause increased pain sensitivity.... I must have had that !! I never heard of it though, but that's what I went through !!!! I also believe 99% of my pain went away !!!

Amazing ! Thanks for responding to my post. I'm new here, and this site is a bit intimidating !!!

Be well and God Bless !!!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:26 am 
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Jimmy wrote:
jonathanm1978 wrote:
... ESPECIALLY when the decisions are for long-term use of Suboxone and not long-term use or reverting back to OPIATE PAINKILLERS.


Suboxone IS an OPIATE PAINKILLER

Buprenorphine is one of the Bentley compounds derived from an alkaloid of the plant Papaver somniferum (the opium poppy), known as thebaine.

Buprenorphine has an extremely high binding affinity at the µ- and κ-opioid receptor. It has partial agonist activity at the µ-opioid receptor, partial or full agonist activity at the ORL1/nociceptin and δ-opioid receptor, and competitive antagonist activity at the κ-opioid receptor.


Suboxone wiki page


Suboxone IS NOT a full opiate agonist....meaning that the dopamine receptors aren't flooded with dopamine causing the euphoric effect that is gained by using full opiate agonists (like lortab, percocet, Roxycodone, etc)

Suboxone for pain management:

The last time I had a tooth extracted, I had been on Suboxone for well over 2 years..and the dentist even wrote me a prescription for Norco 10s after the extraction. But I didn't take them, and just up'd the dosage of my Suboxone one more pill per day for 3 days..and that accomplished what I intended -- the pain from having a tooth pulled was alleviated by the Suboxone and using an extra one on top of my existing dosage (I went back to 3 Suboxone / day instead of my normal 2/day.)

I still have a few to have extracted, and a couple that abscess ...and I had to stop visiting the dentist towards the end of 2011 because my insurance only provides a $1500 cap per year on dental. So once I do $1500 worth of work, I have to pay full price or wait until the next year. Either way, I have a new $1500 cap now and I'm about to start workinng on my dental issues again.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:53 am 
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FYI - Ironic is no longer part of this forum. And I'm sorry to anyone who was given a difficult time by her. I hope you'll stick around the forum.

Continue on as you were.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:25 am 
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hatmaker510 wrote:
FYI - Ironic is no longer part of this forum. And I'm sorry to anyone who was given a difficult time by her. I hope you'll stick around the forum.

Continue on as you were.


I'm not going to talk about someone in a negative manner, but I think there was an underlying problem that we weren't made aware of in that situation...something about the hostility and negativity presented...I could be wrong, and I haven't gone back and read previous posts prior to my joining....I just sense there was something there that wasn't exactly brought out into open discussion..whether or not this is fact is pure speculation....
But as much as Suboxone saved my life, and brought me back from the edge, it's hard to see how someone would be as hostile towards its use.

Of course it's not ideal to take a medication like that for life...but life isn't ideal. We don't live in a perfect world where everything is always roses and happy-happy-joy-joy all the time. It would be nice, but it's just not the world we reside in. There's ALWAYS problems, solutions, temporary solutions, cause and effect, action and reaction...the basic building blocks of humanity are riddled with dealing with emotional problems and rationalizing..and when drugs, whether prescribed or street-acquired, are introduced into that, it makes those basic functions barely possible.
I was on the verge of suicide when I came back from opiates...I was tired..tired of life being dependent on these little round blue pills that had an 80 inscribed on them...I was tired of the game..the corrupt nature of people, the lies, the people who were only out for themselves...the backstabbing, money-grubbing pushers who sold these things...and how far the people would go...not to mention the enabling factor involved and dealers using excuses like "I'm not forcing you to take the pills"....
I saw SO much bullshit during my time on pills. I never ran into legal issues as a direct result -- like getting caught or being searched by law for suspicion..but I was getting to that point. The law in one little local township had my number...every single time they saw that grey 94 Olds Cutlass...with the BLOWN TAG LIGHT...they would pull me over. Middle of the day...sun shining bright...your tag light is out. I got stopped SO many times by the same PD, in the same town, that my license was suspended...then revoked. Not only that, I went SO far on pills that I stole the identity of a family member - partial family member. I never would have done such irresponsible and hurtful things as I did..but I didn't care. And after I had been clean for TWO FRIGGING YEARS...and the guy lives next door to me that I did this with..he SAW that I was clean because he's my damn neighbor!! He presses charges on me for it. I had the money in my hand to pay off what I had done (it was only $1700 worth of ID theft)...I had $7000 in my pocket.but he REFUSED it. Said he wanted to press charges.)

Anyway..this disease makes people do things they NEVER would do in any other circumstance. EVER. And Suboxone is a solution to that, along with many other aspects of treatment...but this medicine is the main key if used properly...and this key, when used properly...fits the lock perfectly in my case.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:09 pm 
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Lol this kid cracks me up

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:43 pm 
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Bboy42287 wrote:
Lol this kid cracks me up



Kid...who's a kid, and what exactly is it that "cracks you up"?

Please, elaborate.


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 Post subject: Partial vs full agonist
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:56 am 
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hatmaker510 wrote:
Suboxone is a partial opiate agonist whereas "regular" pain pills are full opiate agonists.


I'm not sure there's that much difference.

Suboxone identified as herion in detoxified addicts

ABSTRACT

Six male post-detoxified opiate dependent subjects were evaluated for abuse liability of buprenorphine (0.6 mg), morphine (16 mg), pentazocine (30 mg) and distilled water (placebo) intramuscular injection in a single blind cross-over random order. Subjective states, drug discrimination, drug linking, sedation and euphoria were assessed at pre-injection, 30 min and 4 hrs post-injection. Buprenorphine caused significant euphoria and was identified as heroin. On all parameters, buprenorphine resembled morphine rather than pentazocine and placebo. The data suggest that abuse liability of buprenorphine is similar to morphine i.e. moderate rather than low.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:04 am 
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post-detoxified opiate dependent subjects


This is the key to this study! We have addicts whose DOC are opioids, they are post-detox, so they have no tolerance at the time of the study, their addictions are more than likely completely untreated aside from physical detoxification, so they are likely craving. We all know that buprenorphine certainly has the potential to cause significant euphoria in non-tolerant individuals. I, myself, typically had a sky-high tolerance but I happened to be (forcibly) 100% abstinent for a couple months before I finally got on buprenorphine and I did get really, really, really high at the time of induction off 4mg, the high was very satisfying to me; every bit as satisfying as any other opioid would likely have been to me at that time. I was high for a couple days after induction (I'm going to say two) but then with the stacking effect and the ceiling effect, I stabilized very quickly. These two effects are what make buprenorphine unique and, lets face it, DIFFERENT from full-agonists; certainly, it is preferable as a medication for opioid replacement therapy.

So, I agree that buprenorphine has a moderate abuse potential, especially in non-tolerant populations....To non-tolerant populations I'd go so far as to say it is 'just as good' a drug of abuse as morphine/hydrocodone/oxycodone/etc. But, bottom line, it is very different.

-Travis


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:41 am 
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I completely agree with Travis, opiate dependant people do not get high off sub. They may have some euphoria for a few days but once stabilized the euphoria is gone.

Also in this study they gave sub for 3 months and tapered them off in only 4 weeks. I would say this is the reason that only 8% remained opiate free. After 3 months on sub a 4 week taper likely left them with withdrawl and a nasty case of paws. If they had been properly tapered perhaps more patients would have remained opiate free. Also 3 months on sub isn't a whole lot of time to get your life in order.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:03 am 
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Breezy_Ann wrote:
I completely agree with Travis, opiate dependant people do not get high off sub. They may have some euphoria for a few days but once stabilized the euphoria is gone.

Also in this study they gave sub for 3 months and tapered them off in only 4 weeks. I would say this is the reason that only 8% remained opiate free. After 3 months on sub a 4 week taper likely left them with withdrawl and a nasty case of paws. If they had been properly tapered perhaps more patients would have remained opiate free. Also 3 months on sub isn't a whole lot of time to get your life in order.


Yeah, but this is a professional "you should be able to do it this way" setting. We all know that things don't ever go the way that all of the college-educated folks with Ph.D's say they should. A good case of the healer knowing more than their patient.

I'm glad that most doctors still follow their Hippocratic Oath and treat the patient by a case-by-by basis, not by some scientific study that they place on everyone and expect it to be followed. It's when the doctors become better at being a patient than the person they are treating that problems arise..and you see the fallback ratio increase -- or relapse occur. I'm a firm believer in everyone's different, body chemisty, etc, and each person should have their own individual treatment plan(s). Not some study that really doesn't give much to go on.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:48 am 
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jonathanm1978'. doctors are treating every one differently basing on there behave'r. this is how it works with the mental'y ill.
but also drug addiction can be more in the legal aspect with the patients full honesty in recovery. and this make's it more hard to treat an 1 on 1 basis. for doctors need more background. and treating addiction over mental ill's or vice versa. not saying mental ill's is the opposite of mental ill's. but can be treated that way. i would like a doctor change a little and practice becoming a patient for at least one year!! :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:52 am 
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oop's i mean drug addition' the opposite of mental ill's :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:57 am 
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i can remember when i went to nursing school' and had to lie on a bed pan for 9 hours :lol: and i can tell you'. i now know how the patient feels.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:26 am 
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My doctor seems to be ok with keeping me on Suboxone, though I haven't discussed like, really long-term goals with him. I plan on staying where I am with Suboxone, indefinitely, as long as my health doesn't falter or other issues arise that cause me to not be able to, like finances or problems that I can't see down the road. I'm content with life, and the pain that I still have while on Suboxone is manageable. I get some pretty serious headaches from time to time, but those are usually a sign that I need a nap...and I never take anything -- and I mean ANYTHING -- except for my medicine. I don't take Tylenol, Ibuprofen, nothing. The occasional antibiotic...but that's it. Compared to life where I was with addiction, and taking anything I could get, this is a joyride. I don't get high, or feel that euphoria, and I don't abuse my meds. In fact, I'm not taking what I'm prescribed in a daily dose, so I usually have extras or can go longer without getting my refills. I'm not backstocking, YET..but I plan to start putting back 15 or 20 of my suboxone per month, and build a bit of a stockpile..so if something happens, I'm not forced to suddenly stop or do without.


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