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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 2:41 pm 
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My boyfriend just started suboxone as prescribed through his Dr at the VA as part of his intensive outpatient program for his addiction to opiates. About a week ago he was first given a week's worth to see how he did on them. The first day, he said he took a two pills in the AM and two that evening. He looked high when I saw him that evening and he said he didn't feel right and that he should probably only take one pill at night and two in the morning. The rest of that week he did just that and he seemed amazing. Like he did when he wasn't using. I was so hopeful and excited that this may be the blessing he needs to help him get through his addiction.
The following week....which is this week, so far, he has seemed fine in the morning before he leaves for work, but then when he gets off work at 3:30 and comes to see me around 4 or 5ish, he has seemed high again. This has caused frustration, arguments, mistrust, and many concerns on my end. He claims he isn't doing anything wrong, but it's very scary when you are trying to trust someone again after going through their addiction with them. He claims it's his suboxone that he takes when he gets off work and since he's tired it hits him hard by the time he gets to me. He also says he doesn't know what I'm talking about and that he's not acting any different. I understand it must be frustrating if you are doing what you are supposed to and ppl still question you, but I question his symptoms bc it seems he may be taking too much suboxone and just in denial or something. He said he is taking two in the evening again and I hesitate to question him if he should be taking less. His symptoms in the evening are as follows: glassy eyes with pin pupils(sometimes pink), energetic at first, but then slow to react or listen. Becomes confused easily, slowed speech, kind of needy/whiney, zombie like, then very tired very quickly. At night, coughs like crazy. However he does smoke. I'm very sad bc he seems defensive when I ask him about his dosage. I don't know what to think anymore but am trying so hard to understand and love this man through these hard times. Starting to feel hopeless. Any input would be so greatly appreciated as this is my last resort. Thanks in advance.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 3:03 pm 
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Hello Jen,

Suboxone when used properly can be a miraculous cure to addiction to opiate. That being said, you do need to be on the proper dose.

Seriously consider this...ask him to take a drug test. I think this would resolve a lot of the mistrust issues and set your mind at ease. This way he can prove to you that the Suboxone is the only thing he is taking.

If he tests negative for other drugs, then I would turn to his dosage and maybe get him to tweak it to find the dose that is right for him.

Good luck !


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 3:13 pm 
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What mg suboxone pills is he taking? To my understanding suboxone has a ceiling effect and that even if you take too much it should not get you "high". Some of those symptoms do sound like he is back using short acting opiates again, but it could also just be an adjustment period where he is getting used to suboxone and needs to find the correct dose. Does his doctor that prescribes the suboxone drug test him to make sure he isn't using other drugs? Also is he prescribed any other types of medication that may contribute to the way he's acting maybe like benzos?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 3:28 pm 
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Hey Jen,

Welcome here. Thx for posting. Completely understand your frustration and honor you for your desire to help your BF.

In order to better help, more info will help us help you;

What was BF's drug of choice? dose? length of time on it? Is he taking any other meds? If so, what?

What was his starting bup dose? 2 8mg tabs/films 2X's day? = 32 mgs/day. OR, are they the 2mg tabs/films which = 8mgs/day. Also, Is BF's Doctor allowing BF to find the right dose or is BF taking as directed?

Trying to find out how high his tolerance was to see if bup dose is too high...

Imo, us addicts often think we act better than we really do. Others see our true behavior but we often don't. And yes, trust is broken and is hard to rebuild. As you are experiencing, its not his words you want to hear but its his actions and change that you need to see occur.

Its very early for him tho... Hope you can give us more info to better help! Wishing you my best, P

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Did well on Suboxone. Stopped May 2011.
Stopping went well -- its the staying stopped -- where the real work begins.
Coming here 'keeps recovery green'.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 3:41 pm 
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Just saw Raudy's and Impala's posts and agree w both. Especially if it turns out that BF's bup dose is not too high. Once in awhile we get posters here that have a low drug tolerance yet start on too high of a bup dose causing symptoms similar to BF's. Just trying to give BF the benefit of the doubt until we know more. P

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Did well on Suboxone. Stopped May 2011.
Stopping went well -- its the staying stopped -- where the real work begins.
Coming here 'keeps recovery green'.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 3:48 pm 
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Agreed with Pelican,
We need to know what these mgs are in pill or film form before I could make a opinion. Tolerance is also needed too.
My guess is he is taking the 8mg tabs from what in understanding in your post Jen. Its only been a week or so, he isnt even close to being stable yet.
If he continues to take 4 a day or 3 he will eventually level on even on these higher doses. Is he really gunho on getting clean?

Razor


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:55 pm 
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Funny--- I agree with every single comment! IF it is just the Suboxone, the symptoms will be gone in a week from tolerance (of course that would mean his tolerance was very low when he started suboxone-- in the range of taking less than 40-60 mg oxycodone per day).

But my first thoughts were to do drug testing, as already mentioned. You could point out that you want to believe him--- but with a history of deception, NOBODY would be able to simply turn off those fears, and so the test would be very helpful for you. If he says he is insulted by the idea of being tested, then something is wrong. People who know they are doing the right thing are usually more than happy to prove that they are doing well. I've never had a patient who was doing well complain about a drug test. On the other hand, I've had many patients get self-righteous about me 'not trusting them'... who I discovered using fake urine or who had illicit substances in the urine.

The tests are available at most pharmacies for $30; you want to test for benzodiazepines, THC, cocaine, and stimulants... and also for opioids. Unfortunately you will have trouble finding a test that measures buprenorphine at a retail pharmacy.... and you also need one that measures 'natural opioids' (heroin, morphine, and codeine), and semi-synthetics (oxycodone, methadone, hydrocodone, Dilaudid). I don't know if those things are all covered by those tests.

If you google 'clia waived drug tests' you will find those kits for less than $10 each. But you may have to be a doctor to order them. If you cannot find a site that will let you buy one, consider going to an appointment and asking his doc if you can buy or have one from his/her stock.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:31 am 
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Thanks so much everyone for your input and support. I have done some digging and found that his pills are 2 MG that state to take two pills twice a day. He goes to the VA and they have drug tested him but I do not feel he has been using his urine due to him not wanting to test dirty for weed. Or at least that was his excuse. He says he stopped smoking but who knows what to believe anymore. I have recently discovered he has been selling his suboxone. I came across some text messages that proved this. Also, we went out of town today and I asked him to remember his medicine and he tried to tell me somebody stole them out of his car. That is when I confronted him about me knowing he has been selling them. He admittedly denied it but then admitted it. He said he felt he didn't need them and wanted to make some extra money. He hasn't told me what the extra money is for yet. I'm at a loss. There have been a couple of times I thought he may be high on pills but really couldn't tell. Now I fear he may have been selling them just to go buy his drug of choice and use. However, I have not read any text messages that say anything about him looking to buy any drugs. I feel so hopeless and do not know what to do. He said we would talk more later. His drug of choice used to be "blues". Whatever that is. I'm not too familiar with any of this stuff. Anyway, I do not know where to go from here with any dialogue with him. Feeling heart broken.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:00 am 
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I'm so sorry for your heartache Jennm,
It sounds like your BF is still messing around and not being serious about his situation. That's pretty obvious by what you're saying. If he looks high he is high. Don't second guess yourself. You know!! If he's selling his subs and swapping his UA's and making excuses it's all addict behaviour and there's no need for that if he's doing what he's supposed to be doing.

I know it's crazy making when you want to believe someone you love and want to give him the benefit of the doubt but he needs to earn it. He needs to earn your trust by doing everything right and by what you're describing he's not.

If you really want to stay with this person you might consider going to some Al-anon meetings. It sounds like you're not a user, correct me if I'm wrong. Someone that does not have an addiction problem can really get reamed by someone that does. Especially where love is concerned.

Please try to take care of yourself and don't get hurt. It's hard loving an addict that is not ready to quit. I feel for you.

Take care of yourself first. Good luck and keep us posted. Trust your inner voice. megster


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:15 am 
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Thank you for your kind words. Is there any chance that he may just be selling them to get extra money but not be using? I really do not even know how to have a conversation about this without it being a conflict. All I can assume is that he is using again I guess. I have never been an addict to anything other than I did used to smoke cigaretteso. So do you take a gentle approach or just flat out give them tough love and say when you get yourself clean and stay that way, I'm here for you? Bc he's likely to tell me I'm crazy and have no proof to even accuse him of using again.which then makes me feel like maybe I'm wrong and I'm messing up my relationship. No clue what to do...


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:24 am 
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Hey Jenn,

Blues could be oxycodone or even Xanax but it's been yrs since I used so there could be a whole new set of blues out there lol. If he had extra money from selling his sub, wouldn't u see this money unless he was doing something shady with it? Why wouldn't he help with bills or even keep it a secret period in fear that you'd find out and he'd look guilty. Let me tell ya Jenn, an addict that's doing the right things would never wanna look guilty because we're so proud of our recovery and do not wanna go bk to not being trusted. So, with all that said, who knows what he's doing or why he's selling his medicine but if he didn't need his suboxone anymore then how'd he just stop taking it without withdrawal? The only way that happened is if he tapered to a low dose which takes quiet a bit of time or just stopped and went to using. Ppl that's been on suboxone for a bit, can't just up and quit without planning and patience. I don't wanna automatically claim him guilty here but I'm very suspicious. It sucks to hear of ppl selling their sub because it gives negative ppl out in society that extra push to bash suboxone and I hate that. When someone gets caught selling sub, it's automatically thought that they're selling it for someone to get high off of which is completely the opposite. Anyway I'm getting way off topic lol geez....

I don't think u will get much results from asking ur man to be honest if he's using but I'd still try it because u never know. Addicts that's actively using can lie and be very good at it, I sure was. The number 1 thing to lie about is money and that's what u need to start paying attention to....his money. Leave a 10 dollar bill (or 20) out for a day or two and see if it disappears, when u know he has money wait til the next day and see if he has any left. Pay attention to his going out habits too, is he gone a lot? Does he randomly get sick or feel bad? There's all kinds of signs if u know what to look for. Like I said earlier, I don't want to automatically find him guilty, I just want u to know what to look for if he does.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:54 am 
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Really really good post jennjenn. Megster too. Thank you.

jenm,

Some folks start bup wo a real interest in getting clean on it - and go back to messing around w their doc - meaning they go back into active addiction.

It makes no sense to me that BF started and stopped bup in what looks like only 6 wks bc standard of care is for a yr to years on it depending on the person. If 6 wks were the plan, then BF might have been on a short taper and stop it -- except we know that's not the MD's plan bc his MD continues to prescribe and BF continues to sell it. Imo, its not likely that he's selling them - and not using. Selling them puts him right back in contact w street access to buy his doc from his bup sale. Anyone serious abut getting clean cuts out all drug contacts. And like jennjenn said will be open to prove they are clean.

You've already seen BF act strange and caught him in big lies -- all signs of active addiction. Its important to know that's exactly part of the description of active addiction The 'active' part of active addiction is stunningly powerful bc it selfishly turns addicts away from any interest in anything other than keeping the opiates going.

Wishing you my best, P

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Did well on Suboxone. Stopped May 2011.
Stopping went well -- its the staying stopped -- where the real work begins.
Coming here 'keeps recovery green'.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:37 pm 
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Hey Jenm,
Ill say it this way, he is more than likely useing. These Blues are oxy 30s and they are not cheap. The others points should be well taken. To stop active opiate addiction one needs to really really Want to stop. Your BF may not be ready from what im reading from you.

I know your "lost" in this and I wish there were better answers for you. You could as Dr Junig suggested buy a UA cup and make him use it right in front of you. But even after this, what can you do about it?
If he is positive then he and you will need to have a discussion on just what you want in this relationship. Opiate Addiction is a powerful thing to over come. It take bard work and Buprenorphine is an addicts Best chance.

I hope you two can work it out and that he can see that he can beat this thing with your help and Buprenorphine as a recovery tool.
Bottom line is one day the VA dr will catch on to his game. Ive seen this happen at clinic, and that is when the tears start to fall.

This is a good thread, maybe have BF read it.

Best of luck Jenm, loving an addict is hard work sometimes...

Razor..


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:52 pm 
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Thank you to all that replied. He confessed to selling them and I caught him high last night. I told him he was high and he admitted it and started crying. I explained to him he needs to be honest about everything with me and he said he wants to. My fears are true that he had been selling to use. His program is over now but still goes to see the suboxone MD at the VA. He told me he would stop selling his script and get back on it. He just got it filled today. While he was outside, I counted the pills in the bottle. There were only 90 pills. The script is for 112. Obviously he didn't take 22 pills in one day. Should I admit I counted them and confront him about it? I don't want to ruin the lines of honest communication but he kind of already has.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:37 pm 
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If I were u, yes I'd admit to counting them....ur human and ur trust with him has been compromised so u felt the need to count them. Nothing wrong with that imo, I'd have counted them too (others may not have but I definitely would've). Just tell him u were making sure he was telling u the truth and unfortunately he wasn't. Don't let him turn it on u over u just trying to make sure. He may have had full intentions of doing the right things like he promised, and at one sporadic moment that many addicts are familiar with, he talked himself into believing....one time won't hurt. He needs to be called out on it for his own good. He's at a crossroad and if he keeps on then he may very well lose his suboxone doctor. This is just my opinion, I know addicts can be very good at making ppl think we're telling the truth. He's just falling bk into old patterns and if u can help reel him bk in then that's what I'd suggest u try.

Good luck!

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