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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:08 pm 
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I am brand new to suboxone and just started treatment 8 days ago. Brief hx..I have been addicted to oxycodone for 4 1/2 years. I was never a daily user as I had to hide it from my husband and I used maybe once a week 30-45 mg (snorting it). I have tried many times to quit but have at most stayed clean for 3 weeks in the last 4 years. I was started on 4 mg day a week ago but have been so tired that my eyes are closing mid day and sleeping 9 hrs every night. I can't function like this as I have 2 kids and a professional job. So yesterday the dr told me to take the 4 mg in 2 divided doses to help with the sleepiness. Does this work or do you think my dose is too high? I am worried about decreasing my dose as I don't want to have any cravings and want to use. Thank you so much in advance.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:36 pm 
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Hi RN34,

Welcome! Are you an RN? I ask because I am an RN and because of your username.

Anyway, its always best to talk to your doctor (like you did). But to me, it sounds like your dose may be a bit high for you. Other people on here have had sucess with combating drowsiness by reducing their dose. Maybe try 2mg in the am and aee how you feel. You could always take an extra mg or even half a mg if you need to.

Good luck and let us know how you are doing. Feel free to ask any other questions if ya need to as well.

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I have been on suboxone 2.5 years and take 4mg once daily. I love my sub and plan to be on it for two more years.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:13 pm 
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WELCOME :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'd have to agree with orange doll, in that your dose is most likely too high.
Especially since you said you didnt realy have a 'daily' habit.

You could probably do as orange doll suggested and just try 2mg in the morning and see if that helps. if you feel ok and dont have any withdrawl symptoms, well then you know your just right!!!

I hope everything gets better for you soon and you find the right dose. It can be very frustrating. every single one of us is different and so was/is our addiction :wink:

Good Luck and let us know how it goes for you :wink:

if you have any more questions, feel free to ask!!!

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hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:01 am 
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[font=Comic Sans MS]Hi there and Welcome!! YOu have already gotten great advice from orangedoll and Amber, but I just
wanted to add my experience quick.

In the beginning of my dosing, I got sleepy just like you, half way into the day. My dose was significantly higher
than yours, and still is. But that seemed to be a side effect that went away after the first month.
So maybe it is just a side effect also, and will clear itself up here soon. As far as your dose goes, I would
agree with the others that you could probably get by on less for what your habit was in the first place.

I hope that this passes soon for you, I know how hard it is to feel like that with kids. I seriously felt like I could
just lay down and sleep by 2 everyday. Good luck to you, and again...Welcome~Take Care[/font]

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 Post subject: THANK YOU
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:58 am 
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Thank you all so much. This has been BY FAR the hardest thing I have ever done. Yes, I am an RN which makes this even harder. I have access to narcotics and it is like the devil is in my hands whenever I am at work. No one knows my problem and the shame and guilt I feel is hard to deal with. I think people mistakenly see addicts as people on the street shooting up. But i am a professional with 2 kids and the seemingly "perfect life". I have blacked out with my kids at home, have lied, stole money from my husband, stole pills from my mom and the list goes on and on. Only recently could I admit to myself I have a problem as when I stop to think about my addiction I realize it has progressed from Percocet to chewing oxycodone to snorting it and I KNOW that I will eventually end up losing my job and my husband and my kids. My husband is also one of those people who think that I should just be able to stop "if I want to". I have no family that lives near me and as I said I have no support as I don't want or know how to talk to my friends about this. Thank you for the advice to cut down my dose. I am having a bad mental "addict" brain though on this. I feel since I was started on 4 mg that I should stay there. I tried yesterday to see how I felt after taking the 2 mg in the morning but of course I needed the second 2 mg late afternoon. Not sure if I really did physically or just mentally. How do I get past this way of thinking?? I just started the subs so I am working on dealing with my addiction and reasons why I use but am not even close to working through that yet. My husband WILL leave me if I use again. I plan on being on the subs for a year and then weaning off. Thank you all so much for your help


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:33 pm 
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RN wrote............
I am having a bad mental "addict" brain though on this. I feel since I was started on 4 mg that I should stay there. I tried yesterday to see how I felt after taking the 2 mg in the morning but of course I needed the second 2 mg late afternoon. Not sure if I really did physically or just mentally. How do I get past this way of thinking??


Thats a GOOD question........
many people go thru this. I mean it ONLY makes sense to feel this way, we ARE addicts, afterall............

for ME, staying busy was key.......Like if I started to feel like I wanted another dose, well WHEN I'd tell myself Im going to work 2 more hours, or clean the house or whatever I could come up with, and if I still felt like I absolutely NEEDED it,, then Id take it.
Well, sometimes I did give in, yes.
But, as time went on I got to where I thought to myself, "you dont NEED it, your fine"
Im not saying this will happen overnight, but I think you can get there.
Also,
many of us have 'underlying' issues........ Im adhd,,,,in a pretty "textbook" way, too.
so, its really helped to get that under control.

I hope this helps
HERE is a thread Kelly started about this subject.......
http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=53595

good luck
and keep talking, you'll feel better!!! theres lots of support here for you :wink:

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:44 pm 
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Hi again RN34,

I can relate. I was in your shoes 2.5 years ago. I was an RN addict diverting narcotics, didnt get caught at work but my husband found out. Went to treatment, got on sub, and went back to the same shit hospital job. I did well for two years until stress and bullshit happened and i began using again. I got caught this time and am about to enter a FIVE year program for impaired nurses. My husband is pretty much ready to kick me out.

Just be sooooo careful around those narcs. Get outside help too. Sub wont solve all your problems. I wish i would have entered the nurses program 2.5 years ago.

Dont worry too much right now about your dose. You will find the right dose. Just take it one day at a time and dont fuck up at work!

Good luck!

_________________
I have been on suboxone 2.5 years and take 4mg once daily. I love my sub and plan to be on it for two more years.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:50 pm 
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Suboxone maintenance is roughly equivalent to 60mg oxycodone /day. So you are going from 30-45mg a week to 60 mg/day. Also, you are going from not being physically dependant to being physically dependent, and that is a huge deal, believe me. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I know a lot of people start Sub without this information, and you really need to be able to make a conscious decision that this is what you want.
I wish you all the best, and keep us posted ,
Lilly


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:17 pm 
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Lillyval,

You do make a good point......but look at how her addiction has progressed. She said she has moved to snorting. She said she has lied, stolen, and passed out while taking care of her kids. She admits things will only get worse. She has daily access to narcs at work. Who cares if her tolerance goes up. She can taper sub. I think she is a great.candidate for sub. She didnt say if she was stealing from her job either.

RN34, honestly, You should try to stick with 2 mg day. That evening craving is probably mental.I cant stress enough that you need more help than just sub. Good luck!

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I have been on suboxone 2.5 years and take 4mg once daily. I love my sub and plan to be on it for two more years.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:46 pm 
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I'm with Lilly on this one- I've just been trying to come up with a way to say it nicely. In this instance, sub would be the last thing I'd consider.. I'm not a big na/aa advocate for me personally, but for this instance that's the first thing I'd recommend. Man, I just can't see how a 35mg a week habit should ever be considered for subs, or any maintenance drug for that matter. Have you thought about looking into some type of counseling? Understand I'm not knocking you, I wish that when I used that was all I used. You're lucky. I hate to see you go from having a low tolerance to having a high one very quickly.


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 Post subject: Re: THANK YOU
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:35 am 
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RN34 wrote:
I have blacked out with my kids at home, have lied, stole money from my husband, stole pills from my mom and the list goes on and on. Only recently could I admit to myself I have a problem as when I stop to think about my addiction I realize it has progressed from Percocet to chewing oxycodone to snorting it and I KNOW that I will eventually end up losing my job and my husband and my kids. I have no family that lives near me and as I said I have no support as I don't want or know how to talk to my friends about this. I am having a bad mental "addict" brain though on this. I tried yesterday to see how I felt after taking the 2 mg in the morning but of course I needed the second 2 mg late afternoon. Not sure if I really did physically or just mentally. I just started the subs so I am working on dealing with my addiction and reasons why I use but am not even close to working through that yet. My husband WILL leave me if I use again. I plan on being on the subs for a year and then weaning off.


[font=Comic Sans MS]Hello RN~ At first I read your initial post, and thought just like Lilly and nogroovin. Then I read your second one. If you edit out the "good stuff", it reads like above. Now I tend to lean more towards Orangedoll.

Look, this is a very individual decision for EVERYONE. Suboxone for maintenance, is not just about what dose of what drug
you were on. It is also about what kind of lifestyle you had. It is also about how far your addiction has gone.
It is about damage control. You have blacked out while taking care of your children!!!!! I don't say that to make you
feel like shit, because I have too. And it is horrible to find out when you come to. I say that because that is an indication
of just how bad your addiction was becoming. And lets face it, it doesn't progressively get better, it gets worse.

The other thought I had about this was that you are an RN. You are exposed to narcotics on a daily basis. I'm sure
that it's easy to say "get counseling" or "just don't take them from work", when you don't work in that environment.
I don't work in that environment, but I could say without a doubt, that if I did, I would have eventually done it.
The temptation would have just been too strong. And eventually you will get caught, and you will lose your job.

You said that your husband will eventually leave you, and you will lose your children. I have lost my children. Two
daughters. There is no feeling (that I have ever felt) that can be compared to this. My heart is shattered into
a million pieces. I cry myself to sleep at least 3~4 nights a week. I miss those girls so much. There is not a single
counselor, therapist, or profeesional, that is going to take that feeling away. They just helped me learn how to handle
the feeling. I don't want to see you lose your children. I have said before that it would be easier to deal with if they
were dead. I would never ever wish for that, but to know that they are alive, and I can't talk to them, or hug them, or
even LOOK at them, is so hard. So hard.

Look, you have to asess the situation and decide what is best for YOU. YOU are the only person who knows YOU.
If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't stop taking suboxone until I was good and damn sure that I had this. I would make
sure that I had dealt with every little demon, that leads me to use. I would make sure that I had no more cravings,
and when I did, that I had a rock solid plan of dealing with them. I think that you have too much work to do, too many
things to take care of within yourself, to just get clean with counseling or meetings alone. This is JUST MY OPINION.
I do think that nogroovin, and Lillyval are VERY smart, very experienced, and only want what is best for you. Like I
said though, You have got too much to lose.

Whatever you decide to do, make sure that YOU are comfortable with it. I think that it's great that you are getting
multiple views here. That's what is great about this forum. This way you can make an educated decision.
I wish nothing but the best for you, and I will keep you in my prayers. Please let us know how
you are doing and what you decide to do in the end. Take Care~Kelly [/font]

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"All great changes are preceded by chaos."
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:04 pm 
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I actually was wondering when people would say Regarding the fact that I was only taking 35 to 45 mg a week. Trust me I went over all of the pros and cons of taking Suboxone and this is only decision I felt I was left with. I have tried to quit multiple multiple times to the course of four and half years and as I said my addiction has only progressed and I have diverted not Cardex a few times from work and that is when I knew that I had a problem it was either lose my job and get caught or do something so I could fix my life and learn better coping mechanisms in order to get off of the narcotics. Granted I wasn't physically dependent on the medications that I was extremely mentally dependent on them and I was doing them anytime if you get my hands on him if I lost my job I would lose everything that I have and I worked so hard to get that nurses degree. The only place for me to go if I didn't start the Suboxone which I felt was honestly the last chance for me was to lose my job as I said I have taken narcotics for my job a few times and it's too hard having access to them every day when I going to work To be able to go to work and not have the cravings and not even think about should I take this still should I how can I get this it it's almost freeing to me in my mind to not have to worry about that. I only plan on being on the Suboxone's for a year and honestly this is the first time I've actually had hope that I can break free from the addiction I read multiple articles about suboxone and they said I was the perfect candidate for the medication. They said that the people that have the most success are people that have a stable job have support andhave family which I have all of those. That suboxone is brst for people that are not necessarily daily Addicts but are in the throes of addiction. I would love to hear one more people have to say on the issue if they feel Suboxone was the right choice for me


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:18 pm 
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Well, I'd much rather see you on Suboxone then to continue going down the road you're on. I understand what others are saying, but I don't necessarily agree with them. If there were a drug in between Suboxone and full agonists, say Suboxone Light, I'd encourage you to check it out, but there isn't. Unfortunately, we addicts are left with few choices if our disorder hasn't progressed to a daily drug abuse routine. Do we let our addiction run its course and end up using daily, losing our family, our home, our job, etc. or do we roll the dice with NA, which has a massive failure rate. Do we try rehab, which has a crappy success rate. Do we try counseling?

From my experience and what I've seen on this forum, people who go on Suboxone AND work with a counselor or NA or do some kind of recovery have a decent shot at staying clean. Suboxone enables us to stop the drug seeking, then other areas of our lives are more apt to fall into place and IMO, we're much more likely to make big gains in our recovery.

Is Suboxone the perfect answer for you.....probably not, but I don't think you have too many other viable alternatives.

Just my 2 cents.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:28 pm 
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Sorry about all the misspellings and run on sentences. I am on my iPhone and dictated the text. I just wanted to reiterate that addiction is progressive and had I not started subs I WOULD end up with a daily physically dependent addiction. I WOULD lose my job. Addicts Do not become addicts overnight. U don't become a daily user overnight. Why do I have to wait until I lose my job and children and husband to start medicated assisted treatment? Because I have NO doubt that I was heading there. I have been doing drugs for 12 years (coke and ecstasy b4 the oxycodone got ahold of me). And recently I started to abuse my ambien (snorting) and Ativan when I could t get pills and wanted to get high. Point being I have seen my Behavior become scary. I am 100 percent sure that I made the right decision. Like I said why should I have to wait until I lose everything? Imagine working where u had access to narcs daily. The temptation is too great for an addict and I get caught and I ruin my and my poor babies life. Sub treatment was absolutely the right Choice for me. I have been struggling with this for 4 1/2 yrs!!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:42 pm 
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Whoops, sorry RN43, my last post was supposed to supportive of your decision of getting on Suboxone, now that I went back and read it, it's not as clear as I wanted it to be.

Just for the record, I'm supporting your decision to get on Suboxone.

The only caveat is, with your tolerance so low (35 to 45mg of oxycodone per week), Suboxone is basically gonna skyrocket your tolerance. This isn't gonna cause you too many problems right now, but when it comes time to get off of Suboxone, you're gonna have to taper pretty carefully or suffer a fair amount of wd. I think this is what some of the other folks were getting at too.

Sorry for any confusion.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:51 pm 
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Usually addicts don't seek treatment until they become daily users. In all honesty I would not have chosen treatment on my own. I am VERY lucky to have a husband that loves me very much and has been through hell with me give me an absolute ultimatum. It was only after I started the subs and could think clearly that I understood how bad my behavior had become. Thank u all for your thoughts and encouragement. I am so glad I found you all. Just please take a minute to think about your journey to a daily habit and I am almost positive you all were at some point a weekly user like me. And given the choice would have gladly started sub treatment before the addiction became severe and avoided the many negative consequences that come with prolonged and untreated disease.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:28 am 
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YES,
you ARE RIGHT, in my opinion. . . . .
I can remember when I was just a "binge" user..............and NO, it didnt go anywhere good. obviously.
I wish I would have gotten help then. but I didnt think I was an addict. I really never even thought of myself as an addict until the first time I stole something, to sell it for drugs..........then it hit me. I was a binge user for maybe 2 years, max. the next 8 years, that's the time period I call my "shit tornado''
your very lucky , to stop your shit tornado, before it has a damage path 8years long, and 4 lives wide. :wink:

anyways,
I think what the other people were trying to do was just make sure you know what your getting yourself into. Alot of times we hear on here, that most doctors DO NOT fully explain the pros and cons of treatment.

So, obviously you DID do your homework, and you already said you thought about it very seriously.

You made the right decision. If you thought everything thru, and suboxone is where you ended up, then F everybody else, right?????
Im still on suboxone. I'll have 18 months here in a few days.
and I dont really care what anybody else thinks. maybe I'll come off someday. But,,, Im so scared of going back to using so I feel like "if it aint broke, dont fix it"
if that makes ANY sense at all :lol:

and I do think Romeo's right. it seems people that fully commit to finding the root issues of their addiction, are the ones who suceed.

I hope this helps.
its only MY opinion, but Im with ya.
your last post made me think,,,,,,what if I would have STOPPED my proggresion only two years in?????
well, I cant think about that for too long, but I for one do not think you need to lose as much as I did, before choosing suboxone.

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:25 am 
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RN34,

I am glad you came back and defended yourself. It is your decision and I personally think you made the right one.

You are in a good position now with your family and your job. You saved yourself before you got worse. Good job!

Like I said, just be careful and consider getting some counseling. I was on sub at work and still used. The personal problems got overwhelming and like the addict I am I made the wrong decision and used. The temptation was still to great even with the sub. I should have left my job when I first got on it. I still think sub is beneficial for me because it helps some of my bipolar symptoms and controls cravings.

Dont stress too much about how long you will stay on it. Try to find the lowest dose that controls cravings. That may be .5mg for you. It might be 2mg or 4. You can taper sub slowly over time and avoid massive withdrawl.
I hope you stick around here and keep us updated. This is a great place that gives lots of support no matter what recovery path you choose!

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I have been on suboxone 2.5 years and take 4mg once daily. I love my sub and plan to be on it for two more years.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:27 am 
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[font=Comic Sans MS]Hello RN! I kinda feel like Romeo, my post was supposed to be supportive of your decision.
I am all for you staying on suboxone as long as it takes. Like I said earlier, I HAVE lost my children to
this disease, and I NEVER want anyone else to go through that. I agree with everything that you said, and I think
that you need to do what is best for you. We are all here to support you! No matter what your decision is.

I personally am glad that you are choosing suboxone. Not everyone is going to agree with that decision though.
Just leave what they have to say behind. You have enough people supporting you. And that is what matters.
I felt from your second post that this was what you needed to do. And now after reading that you were on
coke and ecstacy, and snorting your ambien and ativan too, you are DEF doing what is best for you.
I agree with Amber, that if I had been given this opportunity when I was still a "weekly user", I would have
jumped on it. Though hindsight is always 20/20.

Let me know if there is anything that I can do for you. Or anything that any of us can do for you. We are all here to help.
I think that you are well on your way to beating this thing!!! Good Luck to you and your family!![/font]

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:00 am 
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Thanks again everybody. I don't think drs do tell u everything when starting subs. I was completely honest during my intake interview. The dr knew my habit was only once a week in fact my urine was negative for opioids. The dr I have does not believe in keeping people on for years. He said 6 months to a year and honestly that sounds good to me. Counseling is mandatory for the program so I will be doing that and I have also bought self help books. To be honest I didn't think I had a problem and I could control my use as I didn't use everyday. It was my Husband that "forced" me to do something. This past week is the first time I have come to realize that I did have a problem and that I was heading down a bad path. Addiction is NEVER stable. One never keeps using just weekly. ...it will progress. This whole thing is so scary for me. To realize I have a chronic disease. My husband told me this was not the life he wants. That he never wanted this and I am scared of relapse. But trying to take this one day at a time and trying to understand. To the poster who said something about they wished their habit was only 35 mg a week..well I wish that my habit would have stayed at taking them once every couple months when I went out. But it didn't. It ended up at weekly and would end up daily iif I kept going. I do have a question though. Isn't withdrawal hard on everybody? Will it be harder for me because I started at lower tolerance? I would think my coming off would be the same as someone else who has taken the same dosage for the same length of time as me (in my Case hoping 3 mg for a year). Or will it be harder for me be cuz I STARTED off with a lower tolerance?? Thanks again and I know that even the posters who didn't agree with my decision to start subs were still being "nice" and supportive!


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