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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:37 pm 
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my suboxone doc cut me off because i wouldn't agree to go to meetings. he said he would no longer prescribe sub unless i went to meetings. yeah, screw that. i have an appt. with another doc but i feel like he is going to tell me the same "you have to go to meetings, you have to work the steps, you have to get a sponsor". i really hope he is more open minded but just in case, how do i explain to him that stuff just does not work for me? how do i convince him to not make me go to meetings and still prescribe the sub? i'm clean and i pass drug tests. that is what should matter.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:07 pm 
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Hello there non meeting member,

I'm a 25 year old who has been in and out the meetings my entire life my mother being an alcoholic and in and out of recovery. I have gotten used to them but most drs require some form of therapy or counseling either meetings or outpatient rehabs this disease can not be cured and can not be conquered on will power alone. You can't expect a dr to just say okay you pissed clean here's your script what are you going to do when your dr wants to ween you off subs. What tools will you have gotten or information have you secured yourself with after you have no subs to save you? This is what meetings are for learning tools and experiences. As of right now with no meetings or counseling then you are just trading one drug for another and your dr isn't going to allow that because it just becomes another habit. If you want help you have to be willing to compromise if your not into meetings that's fine maybe suggest that you are willing to go to personal counseling or another outpatient program in the area that is not based on meeting beliefs but you can't expect to just get a script pee clean and basically get something for nothing. A lot of people can have a clean urine but what work do you have to show after you don't have subs. You have to have tools to sty clean without subs. Unfortunately I agree wit the dr not the meetings but definately with some sort of new teachings on how to avoid drugs after suboxone.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:01 am 
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While I am not against people who are in the totally abstinent group, and I applaud them for their ability to live completely drug-free, you're missing an entire genre of people out there, those who want, or prefer, lifetime maintenance with Suboxone. And before you say this isn't a preferred method, the very same doctor who runs this same website you're on right now, agrees that people who are on a lifetime maintenance/long-term program with suboxone, are more likely to stay clean, live long, happy lives, and have VERY little risk of relapse.
The relapse rate for someone who's on Suboxone less than 6 months is +90%. It doesn't go down all that much for 1 year...and the longer someone is on it, doesn't necessarily mean they have no chance of relapse either.
Also, Dr. Junig (owner of this site) also agrees that tying meetings to Suboxone treatment is a bit..questionable. To quote Dr. Juniq, "meetings help reduce character defects, and help when a person is very, very desperate...when a person is on Suboxone, they aren't desperate"
He also can be quoted as saying, "either treat the addict with Suboxone, OR with meetings."

See for yourself in this video of him discussing this very topic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr3iJ4-M ... Z-1vpnBGtw

I've been on Suboxone for nearly 5 years now. I attended counseling back around the first two years that I was in, then I slacked off, and now I don't do any of that. The expense of the doctor visits is already high enough, added to the fact that my insurance, which my wife has through Southern Company (28,000 employees) for some STUPID reason, doesn't cover Suboxone treatment in there benefits. And as of 01/01/2014, Caremark-CVS, my prescription plan, will no longer cover the cost of the film version of Reckitt Suboxone strips...so I'll be forced onto one of the current generics (two of them already on pharmacy shelves, a 3rd one hits this month - September, with a film version coming in January from BDSI that you put on the inside of your cheek)
To me, I see counseling as an extra, unnecessary expense...because I don't wish to discontinue Suboxone, nor do I have the desire to get high. Hell, I don't even drink anymore...I enjoy spending time with my family, and my daughter is the highlight of my life, since I missed out on the other kids at that age because I spent their early childhoods chasing pills...I'm able to make-up for the things I didn't do with them now with her and I love every minute of it.

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Adam Wayne P.
DOB: July 1, 1985
October 8, 2013

RIP little brother. Gone, but not forgotten.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:07 pm 
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itsybitsyspider, i forgot to mention that i DO see a personal counselor every 2 weeks. he is actually somewhat helpful, unlike those damn meetings. so it's not like i'm doing NOTHING. suboxone is not just a substitution. i don't get high off suboxone like i do the other opiates. cravings diminished? yes. high? no. thanks for your reply, though.

and jonathan, i've seen a lot of junig's vids. the man is a genius. i wish all doctor's shared his views on buprenorphine. i especially agree with his video "how long are you going to take that stuff" (i even showed it to my mom), where he says suboxone is more of a long term maintenance medication.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:21 pm 
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John1978 said it well.

We have no pain or desperation like those without subs because we are still taking drugs...

NA text step 2:
"the first thing we did in this program is stop using drugs. We then began to feel the pain of living without the use of drugs... "

So. We aren't like them at all. I do totally think that they can help us a lot. Going to meetings, sharing, stepwork, meeting other clean addicts, Ect. These are all essential to long term recovery. You have to have some form of recovery other than just taking suboxone. Doctors just know that 12 step groups are free and easily available. Sadly. We don't have much else. But I do agree that long term suboxone will keep you from using OPIATES, but the problem here is that if you don't incorporate meetings or stay in some sort of atmosphere of recovery (not just staying busy, exercising, playing video games, ect) you will be sort of like a dry drunk and probably pick up other substances that will drive you further down that Shitty hole all the way to active addiction... Eventually. When I say dry drunk btw, I just mean that you only take suboxone and don't work on your personality, mental health, emotional health, spirituality, and basically change your entire life... You will be just as fucked up as always just on suboxone instead of dope or whatever you took.

So. Doctor j does say that it's questionable as to what we get out of it or the technical side of things, but still recommends meetings as part of a good recovery plan while on suboxone.

They have to be onto something because we have to do some of that stuff just the same as every other addict, but have to force ourselves to do it. Thus doctors tell you to go. They know it will help you tremendously and that we won't go if they don't require it lol.

Finally. I've always heard horror stories about being yelled at or put down for being on suboxone in meetings, but in my experience they are either from when sub first came out or an embellished attention getter. I know things do happen if you, for some reason, decide to tell the group your on suboxone (even though it's an outside issue), but these stories are few and far between. I know 1 or 2 people out of hundreds that even care enough to put someone down for suboxone. It's the exception not the rule. All I'm saying is, don't let that be your excuse to not go (when you just don't want to go because you "don't need it") because you don't have to tell anyone their if you don't want to and you can get tons out of going if you stop worrying so much about everyone else... Most folks don't give two shits if I'm on suboxone in NA.

I've wrestled with this since day one.

I don't say any of this towards any one person either.

Also. Doctor j says all of this stuff about all topics sub related.... In his book called Dying To Be Clean". I highly recommend it. Highly.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:23 pm 
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i take suboxone, see a counselor, pass drug tests and have no desire to use. i'm sober. i just don't see the need for meetings that i don't like in the first place.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:27 pm 
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Some drs are members of them an being in meetings in there personal life gets brought over to their work my husband had a dr who is an addict of heroin and he is an avid as goer and required his patients to go to four meetings a week but that wasn't a problem forums it was him losing his skills after a stroke and leaving my husband without meds a couple times which caused withdraws and other stuff like that but that is one reason they do like you to do meeting because they are members themselves. I am glad you are seeking therapy but my point wasn't that you get high off them and of course subs dont give you anything like an opiate but my point is that how's your dr supposed to know you aren't just there to get your script and get high like some people do was my point you are a patient Nd so is everyone else that comes I his doors unfortunately even though you may be doing the right thing now some people will still judge us as addict junkies and are just waiting for us to fall off the wagon.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:46 am 
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I profusely hate the stigma associated with Suboxone, and people who take it. It's QUITE annoying, especially when that 'stigma' is felt INSIDE the doors of the doctor's office that prescribes you the stuff!!!
Even more atrocious, when it's not the doctor, per se, and it's the secretary, or managerial staff. Of all people....but then again, why should they care? My doctor seems genuine and caring. The woman that takes my BP and golden liquid...not so much. She's always way more "important" than the doctor. And she acts very judgmental towards the folks who come in.

_________________
Adam Wayne P.
DOB: July 1, 1985
October 8, 2013

RIP little brother. Gone, but not forgotten.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:41 am 
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I'm very lucky and give my dr such noteworthy praises. I believe she is amazing he is the medical director of our local hospital as well as an advocate for suboxone her only request is that you have a desire to be clean and have a plan about your sobriety at least a month after starting she doesn't force people into meetings but requires patients to have something in place. She is so busy and ha two places to run and is always late but when I come into the office at 215 for my 230 appt and don't see her until 330 it is still completely worth it for me as a patient. She listens to me and asks about my life and takes all things into consideration when I speak to her. She makes my visit feel as if I'm meeting with an old friend and catching up. She is willing to always be available web she can for emergency appts too if you are craving or in need of an induction. Sorry that youvsre dealing with a sub dr who does not meet your needs if you we're close to ny I would tell you to make the drive cause its worth it.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:38 pm 
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update: found a doc. seems pretty cool for the most part. while he is a big fan of the 12 steps and meetings, he said he is not going them force it on me and would prescribe suboxone until i'm ready to get off.


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