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 Post subject: HELP!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:18 am 
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I am a opioid addict, I have posted a few things here and have contacted Dr. J. I am in a serious situation right now concerning Suboxone. I've been on Sub since Aug 4th. I am now abusing it and don't know how to stop this! I know it has a ceiling, well I've gone past that supposed ceiling. I have felt better than ever on Sub. Been able to do things I couldn't do before. But as soon as I start getting tired I pop another one. Just like I did on oxy! My husband is a very selfish controlling person and says he will take care of the things I really shouldn't be physically doing because he loves me, and then bitches loudly about doing such things. And I end up showing him how to do it, where things are etc...I've showed him this shit for years! So I think I need another pill just to deal with this shit. So there I go again. I've contacted my treatment center for a one on one tomorrow to talk and let them know I fucked up! Hope they can help, I don't want to go through withdrawal, scared of what I might do. So scared, so pissed at myself for being such an addicted wimp. Need some communication from anyone who knows what I'm feeling right now. I REALLY DON'T LIKE ME MUCH RIGHT NOW!


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 Post subject: Re: HELP!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:00 pm 
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Hi Cutimouse, It sounds to me like it might be a good idea for you to take a step back and think about using the tools that you have. How many milligrams of suboxone are you prescribed? How many do you take a day? Are you able to moderate yourself at all? You left out some details that are important to know. Then, on top of that, it does sound like your husband is undermining your recovery. I hope things get better and that others who have more experience than I do in this area respond to you!


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 Post subject: Re: HELP!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:55 am 
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I agree with Michelle that we don't know all ur information. Try not to be so hard on urself though, ur not the first to over take ur medication. There's actually a couple of threads active right now about this exact thing. Ur not alone. It's important for u to know that ur not the only person that this happens to.

I think that by contacting ur doctor for a one on one is a great first step. Hopefully ur doctor will give u some options that will better help u break this cycle. Let us know how it goes.

Another thing I wanted to say was that the reason I started abusing opiates was the increase in energy. I was a single mother working full time and I was exhausted. I know that feeling of needing something to perk up. It makes sense with opiates but with buprenorphine on higher doses it can make u a little draggier (is that a word lol) because of the ceiling level. So it is mostly a mental thing ur experiencing imo.

Dr. Junig has said before...... if u start feeling like ur wanting to take extra, immediately go occupy urself with something for 15-20 minutes and you'll notice that need to take more will have passed. It's something u maybe can try.

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 Post subject: Re: HELP!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:49 am 
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Thanks for the support! I am currently supposed to take 3 per day 8/2 Suboxone. Did meet with doctor one on one yesterday and because of state laws they couldn't prescribe me anymore. But they are sending me to a clinic to guest dose until I can actually refill. But because of someone not getting the paperwork right they wouldn't dose me this morning. Hope I don't start to withdraw to bad. Supposedly will be able to tomorrow. I won't be this stupid again. This just being my first month on Suboxone I didn't believe the ceiling effect I read about and had to find out the hard way, I still have that tendency to take more. Just having a place to talk about my fears and hopefully someday talk about success is a God send! Thank you all!


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 Post subject: Re: HELP!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:35 pm 
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Hi Cutimous,
I copied this response I gave to armymike in the thread he started. This can work out if you really want it to. But you have to be willing to work on changing your addictive behaviors. GoodLuck!

Welcome to the forum. I just wanted to say I can empathize with the obsession/compulsion to take more Suboxone than prescribed and/or needed. I don't have an answer for why we do that or a solution, but I have felt very similarly at points.

For me it was mainly at the start of treatment when I actually just wasn't on the right dose of Suboxone. I was on 3 mg and burning through a month's prescription in less than 2 weeks. But, even as my dose began to feel adequate, I would go through more than I should.

I kept thinking "what the hell, why isn't this working, why do I need more, and the more I would take the more I would want and feel like I needed to take. To the point where it had zero to do with drug cravings, or withdrawal, it was just something new to obsess about, replacing my doc. It's just addict behavior. And that's what we have to address.

For me, I really, really wanted this to work because at the right dose Suboxone relieved my cravings for opiates, curbed that awful drug hunger, and improved my mood. Life felt so much better. So I worked really hard with my therapist, my psychiatrist, and my husband and made a plan.

My husband holds my Suboxone and gives it to me each day. It is kept in a safe and out of my sight. This was humiliating to me at first, to think I couldn't handle my own medication, but it wasn't something to be ashamed of, it was just a fact. I couldn't handle it. I still hate it sometimes, but mainly I'm happy I have a supportive husband to help me through this. He still keeps it out of my sight and gives it to me daily but it is not locked up. I don't know where it is in the house and I don't care. It feels liberating. One day I hope to be able to just do it myself, but I'm not pushing things since it's working now.

The other parts of my plan included my doctor giving me one week worth of medication and have weekly appointments for one month. Once he could see I could handle that amount of medication we moved to two weeks, then three weeks, and now I see him monthly. It worked- I actually thought about how much money I was spending on Dr's appointments and copays every time I was able to get my hand's on an extra Sub. I thought "really, you want to waste all that money and not even get high?" But that is the beauty of Suboxone- you can stop and think and make a decision, where with other drugs, you just can't, you just have to take them.

Finally I worked with my therapist very hard on my addictive, obsessive, compulsive thoughts and behaviors. We've used CBT to work on a lot of those things. I sit now with the uncomfortable feeling of having an irrational desire to take more Suboxone and I don't act on it. And the more you do that the less often you find those moments popping up.

I've been on Suboxone for a little over 6 months. I had a really rough start and have had bumps in the road. I still struggle with this issue and I may run 1 or 2 short in a month and everyone on my support team is aware. Its such an improvement, that is all you can ask for. So I'm far from perfect, but I'm getting better.

My advice, if I have any for you ArmyMike, is to gather a support team and ask for help. Then do whatever they suggest (professionals) whether it hurts your pride or your feelings or not. If you want to make it work you have to ask for help. Good luck, keep us updated!
Tragicom

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 Post subject: Re: HELP!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:06 pm 
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Great post tragicom!

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 Post subject: Re: HELP!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:22 pm 
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I too had trouble in the beginning with taking too much. It's the addict in us that makes us do the stupid behavior even though we know taking more won't do anything. I would take another tablet (8 mg's) and just wouldn't feel it and then feel guilty for taking it. Duh, I'm an addict and only doing what addicts do.

It was just a matter of putting my foot down and taking only my prescribed dose. Then I realized it was way too high like yours. So over several months I ended up going down and down and didn't feel any withdrawal from it. After a year I was below 8 mg's and felt great.

Do what was suggested above and seek some help. Being honest with your medical team is the best advice I can give you. Surrender to your addiction and then you'll find success. We addicts always feel like we need to stay in control of our lives and that stops us from progressing. So give it up and do what they tell you. Get out of the drivers seat and be the student instead. Then you'll find recovery.

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 Post subject: Re: HELP!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:11 pm 
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Thank you all so much for your support and advice! I deeply appreciate it! I'm pretty sure I've learned my lesson this month. It would be a hell of a lot easier for me if I had a little more support at home. My best friend is super supportive but travels for work a lot and can't be my face to face support. And my husband gets drunk every night and turns into instant dickhead and this sloppy mess I don't even need right now. But hell, I've been dealing with that shit for years. He gets mad at me and doesn't understand my addiction and God forbid I point out his addiction. Home life does not help, but I really don't have any options as I am on disability. We've been together for over 27 years and it's not easy to make such a huge decision to leave at this point. Especially when I'm really trying to get shit right for me. Must do that first, before anything. Thank you all!


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 Post subject: Re: HELP!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:32 pm 
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Great answers for you in this thread! I just wanted to add a suggestion. I would urge you to find an addiction therapist who is well versed in suboxone, but also in forms of therapy that are helpful to addicts. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, Motivational Interviewing and other techniques can help you change your behavior. It's never enough to just take your medication if you want to recover from addiction. Part of recovery is changing our lives so that they are unrecognizable from active addiction.

Another great tool to help understand destructive patterns in your life is SMART Recovery. SMART gives you tools to change your behavior as well as group camaraderie. You can look up local meetings in your area online.

You've done a great job at reaching out for help! I think it would do you good to pursue some other avenues for recovery.

Amy

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 Post subject: Re: HELP!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:19 am 
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Amy and all who have answered my post. I am also seeing a behavioral health doctor and start therapy on Tuesday. Of all my doctors they are the only ones (besides my recovery center) that really believe in Suboxone or really any similar MAT for that matter. I am really ashamed of my stupid mistake this month by overtaking. Sometimes it's hard to try and recover from something when the person who is supposed to love you the most won't even see much less talk about their own addictions. It's a daily roller coaster. I'm tired of it and going to do my best to get myself in a better position to make better decisions about MY life. Once again, thank you all for responding! Looking forward to sharing more of my journey upwards out of this with you all!


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 Post subject: Re: HELP!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:59 am 
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Cutimousf64, buprenorphine really is a different type of medication. Different from the other pain meds, and it's those differences that make it uniquely qualified to help us addicts. We have built a strong, psychological habit of taking more pills and getting a reward for it. That doesn't work after a certain amount with suboxone. But the compulsion is still there. That's one of the biggest behaviors you'll need to work on and we're all here to help you do it.

Here's a simple suggestion - Get a 7-day pill box from the pharmacy, you know the ones that go from Sunday through Saturday. Put your daily dose in each days slot for the whole week. This way, if you want to take more, you'll be able to, but you'll have to take it out of the next day's amount. And that one extra step will force you to think about whether or not it's worth it. That will give you enough time to decide that it's not worth it because now you know there is a ceiling limit to the effects, and taking more won't result in increased sensations.

I know it's a small step, but beating your addiction will be a series of small steps that point you in the right direction. Something as simple as a pill organizer can help you to visualize your way back to health. I started doing it within a week of picking up my first take home script. I was so tempted at first to take more than was prescribed but that one extra step made me stop and think about it. I knew better. It was also more helpful to ration out my doses instead of having a pill bottle full to say "no" to. These tiny little behavioral changes can and do make a difference over time, but only you can implement them into your life.

Good luck - OpenMind

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 Post subject: Re: HELP!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:50 pm 
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Thank you all so much for listening to me. Was supposed to have guest dosing done yesterday and today and because of "paperwork" it didn't happen. Recovery Center I attend said they worked 10 hours yesterday to help me (yes, it was my fault I overtook) but I feel like I got the run around. I pay them a lot of money and I want to trust them to take my best interests to heart, but I got a really uneasy feeling this morning after doing what they said I needed to do and it was a waste of my time. Has anyone else dealt with this type thing. Like I said, I am new to Sub and made a big mistake in my first month on it. But I don't want to be taken advantage of for something I need to help me because I can afford it. I want to think they have my best interests at heart and now I'm not so sure.


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 Post subject: Re: HELP!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:27 pm 
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Hey Cutimousf64,

Can you help remind be how long you've been w out bup? You last took 24mg/day how long ago? You said you get bup thru a 'Treatment Center? which is what? a Drs office? Explain if you would. Did your Dr consider switching scripts to weekly dosing? which restricts access to the full monthly quantity. Maybe your Dr/program does not do that?

Did your Dr transfer your care to an OTP? Opioid Treatment Program? You said they "are sending me to a clinic to guest dose until I can actually refill" How long till your refill? The OTPs run differently. Much more restrictive as I understand it. It's also a weekend - which is not excuse but...tomorrow may be spot on!

Just trying to get some more details so we can better help you here. In order to make this work, imo, set aside your shame (that dissipates/leaves w bup treatment) and anger at husband, bc imo its impossible in early recovery to keep all that active...its too much and can derail it all... Best tonight! Pel

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 Post subject: Re: HELP!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:51 pm 
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Pelican, my last 24 mg was Thursday, only had 8 mg on Friday. Called the treatment center and they had me come in right away. When I got there I told them what a dumbass I had been by overtaking. The one on one with the doctor on Friday turned out not to be the doctor at all, just a Nurse Practitioner. So they said they would help get me guest dosed, and as you can see from my last post, that didn't happen. They also pointed out, that they worked 10 hours on Saturday to help me, only to tell me Sunday morning there was nothing they could do until this morning. So this morning they called me and said they released me. WOW! So I called the treatment center they sent me to for guest dosing. They had me come right in and I got to have a doctor exam and counseling right away. This didn't happen at the other place. They (the new place) also pointed out to me that all of that should have been done on my first intake. I never received any paperwork on procedures or anything from the other place. Only a receipt for my payment and scripts. They seemed to genuinely care about me but I guess the only thing they cared about was my ability to pay. I feel like a fool. But now I know I am at an accredited treatment center. Geez! They did dose me today, not a lot but enough to not go into bad withdrawal. I'm just trying to get off oxy and screwed this up myself, but it really hurts when you find out the place you sought out for help, is probably a fly by night business. I guess another red flag should have been when I found out the NP also works at a pain management office? Thank you all for listening to me rant!


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 Post subject: Re: HELP!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:26 am 
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They released u??? What? Wow I'm really getting this feeling that some places don't want to hear a patient be honest! I have saw this scenario before on the forum, someone overtook their medicine and went to speak to their doctor and was released. U know, I think that's how u can tell if the doctor ur seeing isn't looking out for their patients. A doctor that cared, would understand ur a new patient and an addict new in recovery makes mistakes, u didn't do any opiates u just ran out early. Was that the first time you'd ran out early at this particular place? Am I missing something because that seems unfair. They could have even kept u as a patient and said.....'hey we just can't give u any more medication so try to make it bk in a week to ur scheduled appointment'. But releasing u seems like u got punished for being honest. Ahhh I just don't understand.

Ur soooooo lucky to have gotten bk into ur old place again, especially so quickly. This could have been a blessing in disguise for u. I think going through all that u have because of running out early, will motivate u to not do it anymore hopefully. Good luck and thanks for sharing your story!

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 Post subject: Re: HELP!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:53 pm 
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Having a really hard time tonight. Read all my other posts for more info. Just shit, having a hard time is all. Feeling bad for all the people in Texas who are probably needing meds and at the same time feeling bad for myself for fucking up and not receiving the amount I need. This withdrawal shit sucks. I'm not handling this as well as I hoped I would. But I didn't expect the reactions from the place I thought would help me through this either. I'm still on sub just not as much as I apparently need right now. So damn tired. Night all, and God Bless! Thanks for letting me bitch.


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 Post subject: Re: HELP!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:10 pm 
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Every one of us needs to vent here and there. It's human nature. :)

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 Post subject: Re: HELP!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:05 am 
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Meeting with the new doctor again in the morning. I am wondering if I should say anything about the place I first went to. The more I think about it the more pissed off I become. Never saw an actual doctor, never received a packet or any paperwork about the program. Just still have a really bad taste in my mouth about that place and am afraid for others that go there thinking they are being medically and safely taken care of. WHAT WOULD YOU DO? Concerned for others after my experience!


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 Post subject: Re: HELP!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:27 pm 
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If it was me I'd keep my mouth shut until you have a really good solid relationship going with the new place. Meaning, it may not be wise to come in complaining about another facility because they may get the impression you will talk bad about them too. Just be nice and honest and tell them the previous doctor was not very understanding of how addicts can screw a good thing up. Tell them that all you want is to find recovery and start building your life again and you need their help. When you tell a person you need their help they tend to have some empathy for your situation. Be honest about your behavior and make sure they understand that it is all in the past and you want a fresh start.

After several months, once they know you much better, then you might want to tell them what happened and ask if there is anything you should do about it. Or should you just forget it and go on with life? Tell them you'd hate to see another help seeking addict get treated the way you did. If they don't seem warm to the conversation, drop it and don't bring it up again.

IMO, you need to be on a larger dose to completely saturate your receptors. Then, after a few months you can taper down only if you feel like it's the right thing to do. No one should be forced to taper if they feel just fine on the dose they're on. Mostly it's our brains that need to feel normal, not any physical discomfort. That we can easily handle as we've all done it many times before. (short withdrawals) The addict lives in our brains limbic system like blinking and breathing. It takes time to get used to not taking drugs to seek a nice buzz. Suboxone works great for putting us on the right path for success. After a year you can reassess your situation and see if it needs any tweaking.

We all hope you're feeling better and will get the proper treatment every addict deserves.

rule

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