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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:20 pm 
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hi, sorry if this is the wrong spot, but i have the attention span of a gnat right now. Long story short started taking roxis about 8 months ago from a dr for carpel tunnel. Stopped seeing him for lack of ins and cannot affored to buy them. Went to family dr who gave me a 30 day script of 16mg per dat. i almost jummped ut of my skin. today i took 2mg in morning still feeling weird, took 2mg at 4pm and jittery, crying, scared, pacing around! my dr gave me no other info and i dont know what to do! i have 4 kids!! i need to be there for them! help me please im so scared! can i just take these to get thru the 5 days and taper off? i hate the way i feel. thanks


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:58 pm 
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Hi tomuchtolose,

I'm sorry you're feeling so crappy right now. Let's see what we can do to help.

You mentioned you were on Roxis (Oxycodone), about how many per day were you taking?

Your family doctor gave you a presciption for 30 days worth of Suboxone, at 16mg per day?

You mentioned you almost jumped out of your skin, did he talk to you about waiting to take your first Suboxone until you were in mild to moderate wd from the Roxi's? It sounds like maybe you didn't wait and you took your Suboxone too early and that threw you into precipitated withdrawal?

When did you quit the Roxi's.....what day and time?

I see you said "today" you took 2mg in the morning. I'm gathering from that statement that you started Suboxone yesterday. If that's true, then by today the Roxi's should be out of your system and you should be able to take a normal dose of Suboxone.

I'm gonna guess from your post that right now you should be in the clear to take a higher dose of Suboxone. Being jittery, crying, scared and pacing around are signs of wd. The only thing I'm not fully straight on is whether your in precip. wd or if it's been long enough and your just on too low a dose of Suboxone to handle the Roxi wd.

Usually, 24 hours between your last dose of Roxi and your first dose of Suboxone is fine. Has it been longer than 24 hours? If so, I'm thinking your OK to take more Suboxone.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:33 pm 
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i am on day 2 no roxi. last dose 8pm sunday night and its now tues. i took another 2mg right now. im having bad panic/anxiety. i never have done well with any kind of drug which makes me wonder how i got here w the roxi. i always have every side effect knon to man. i feel hot waves of panic cant sit still but unable to lay down. i want to take this short term especially if this is whats making me feel this way. can i only uses these 3 more days and quit? i just want to be donw feeling like crap all the time. im weak and unfumctionable, but fell like screaming from the anxiety. any ideas? i did take half a xanax wich helped abit. thanks so much please keep in touchw me i have knowhere to turn...


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:54 pm 
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OK, I've been on this forum for almost a year and I have never heard of anybody having this kind of reaction to Suboxone, I'm not saying it's not possible, I've just never seen it.

Everything you're describing to me is withdrawal from opiates. I don't mean to sound like a dork, but have you ever experienced withdrawal from opiates before?? If you haven't, you're describing it pretty well with your posts. If you have experienced opiate wd before, does that feel like what you're experiencing now??

2mg is a SMALL dose to be inducted onto. My first dose of Suboxone was 8mg. I took another 8mg pill later that same day.

I used somewhere in the neighborhood of 200mg of Hydrocodone per day. Hydrocodone and Oxycodone are very similar. Maybe that can give you some kind of yardstick as to how much Suboxone you need?

I still find myself wanting to tell you to take more Suboxone, but I'm nervous that Suboxone may be causing your symptoms????????

YOU ARE PLACING THE SUBOXONE UNDER YOUR TONGUE AND LETTING IT COMPLETELY DISSOLVE, RIGHT??

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:16 pm 
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Hey tomuch, please tell us about how many mg's of roxi you were taking per day, I'm kind of with romeo on you may need more than 2 mg of Suboxone a couple times a day, are you sleeping ??? What usually happens is that your Dr asks you to take a little more than you may need, if you get sick ( puke ) you've taken to much..... One thing for sure is you probably should only be dosing with Suboxone 1 time a day , ALSO , this not an easy thing to stop opiates, be patient and tell us how much roxi you were taking per day, Good luck, Mike


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:28 pm 
Ok Kiddo we have been here and ready to help. You need to answer these questions so we can help you.

How many mg. of oxycodone were you on daily and for how long.

Were you off the oxy for at least 12 hours and in mild to moderate withdrawal when you took the first suboxone? If you werent, you are in precipitated withdrawal. Don't worry, this won't last for a day.

Were you inducted at the doctors office?

Are you taking the suboxone correctly and NOT swallowing it?

2mg is too low of a dose. The average is 8mg a day to start and you can take 4mg twice a day, or 8mg in the am.

Are you addicted to xanax? Some of your symptoms sound like a little benzo withdrawal.

Do you have comfort meds, like clonidine for anxiety, cramps, sweats, chills, Immodium, obviously some xanax to help with anxiety, trazedone for sleep?

8mg of suboxone should get you to feeling better soon, stop the symptoms cold and relax you. We are here to help and not judge you. Read the threads on induction, how to take suboxone pills correctly because if you don't they DO NOT work.

Hang in, you will be functional very soon. Keep us posted and hang on!

Robin


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:55 pm 
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Yeah, I am with everybody else. If you haven't had any roxi since Sunday you need to take more sub and make sure you are taking it correctly under your tongue. I am very similar to you. I too was on oxycodone for pain for 9 months and have four children age 5 and under. When I was inducted I waited 30 hours from my last dose of oxy to my first dose of sub. It was the first time I had experienced withdrawl and it was horrible just like you are describing. I couldn't care for my children or anything. I took 12 mg of sub and within 20 minutes I felt great, just like nothing had ever been wrong! I really think you need more sub at least 8 mg. I hope you read this so you can start feeling better.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:06 pm 
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Tomuchtolose.....You've been given some good avice...Listen to what these folks are telliing you....They KNOW what they are talking about. 2mg. IS NOT ENOUGH...it is a shame your doc just handed you some pills and did NOT tell you about them, how to take them(desolve UNDER YOUR TONGUE) only way they will work!!!!!!
PLEASE tell all about yourself(DRUGUSE)!!!You have came to the RIGHT place for help.... This is NO time to be holding back the TRUTH.....WE will NOT judge nor condem you for what you have done...ONLY HELP you with your problem. Just bwe HONEST to a fault and ASK Questions....Best of Luck to you....

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:45 pm 
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I was in such a fog when I wrote this I forgot and stumbled on this by accident!
I fell off wagon and am trying to get a plan together to quit again.
I am taking 6-10 roxi a day. So between 240-300mg! God, how did I get here! I have 2 months worth of suboxone
But had suck a bad reaction I went back. I am so ashamed. This has a hold on me like nothing
I have ever been through. I did wait 12 hours last time but think it was to soon.
I was not dependent on benzo for those who asked, have only taken them a few times.
I do not have anything else otherthan the suboxone, that's all dr gave me. I am dearth afraid to do it again, but I
Want to stop. It's killing me finically and emotionally! Thank you for all the support and if
There is anything else I should get or know to help this time I appreciate it greatly! I plan to stop Friday,
As my husband will be home for the weekend. As I said, 4 kids so I need someone
Here to take care of them. I will and can do this! Ready to take my life back! Thank you for any and all advise!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:12 pm 
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Hi again tomuchtolose,

I'm sorry to hear that you fell off the wagon, but I'm glad to hear you're willing to give Suboxone another shot.

If you only waited 12 hours between your last Roxi and taking Suboxone the last time you tried to do your induction, that's why you felt like complete shit.

Really though, it's not so much about how much TIME you have between your last dose and starting Suboxone, it's how bad your wd is.

Here's a link to a COWS (Clinical Opiate Withdrawal Scale), you should be scoring in the moderate zone before taking any Suboxone. You should also have someone else score you, don't score yourself, you'll more than likely cheat and end up taking your Suboxone too soon. I know I just said time isn't really important, but we usually suggest you wait somewhere in the neighborhood of 24 hours for a short acting opiate, like Roxi's.

Here's the link:

http://www.naabt.org/documents/cows_ind ... _sheet.pdf

It's 2 pages, scroll down and read the whole thing, it'll explain what happened to you last time.

Good luck, I hope things work out better this time!!

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:36 pm 
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Hi Everyone I was on this forum several months ago and had every intention of coming off suboxone. I still want more than anything to get off it but I am struggling with being able to cut the film into evenly divided portions so that I can really get serious. Since I'm just cutting what appears to be 1mg each dose, I never really know what i'm taking..I've tried to cut 8 pieces but never comes out even etc..If I had to guess I'm at 4mg a day right now. I take 3xs a day right now. If someone has any suggestions on how to taper using the film I would really appreciate the info. If you know of a thread on this site that I can find that info, that was be awesome as well..I'm no longer being prescribed subxone so I don't have the opportunity to use the liquid form.

Thanks very much, and good luck to all!!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:27 pm 
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Romeo, thank you I will be reading this link after kids go to bed.
24 hours is a long time, I am so afraid o the withdrawals but I want this so bad.
I have to wait for someone to be home with me as I still have a 1 year old.
I was thinking of taking my last dose Friday at 5pm going to bed at
9, and hoping to sleep thru some of it. I am trying to get something to help sleep, as u know
About the anxiety and flopping around like a fish out of water. I am hoping to sleep until 4-5 am, take something and sleeping
Until about noon. Then Mabey I will be almost ready for the suboxone.
I start to feel w/d about 4-5 hours after a 30mg dose, so I should be feeling
Pretty shitty by then. I am afraid of swapping one drug for another.
What do u think about short term sub use? Thank you for your advise and the link.
Good luck to all of you.
Brayden- I dont have any experience with cutting the strips.
When you cut them, is it nit like pills and u get half a dose? Hope someone
Here can help u. Please keep in touch, I will be where u are soon
Enough and will need to know about cutting them. Great job getti g off
What u were on before.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:52 am 
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I really need help!! I waited 18 hours this time and same damned thing!
Sick, shaky, anxiety!!! I feel like I'm gonna jumP out of skin.
I tried just 4mg at first, same feeling. Then another 4, same.
Then 2 mor before bed, up all night!! What am I Doing wrong!!
I just took 2 percocet and I feel slightly less edgy! I want off so
Bad but I dont know what keeps happening? Could I possibly be the 1 in a million
That cannot take this drug? So, now what? I can tell the subxone blocked the
Percocet which is fine, I dont want to be high, just normal. Do I continue on? Please
Someone help me figure this out. Now that I took perks, so I have to wait again??
I have been taking the suboxone for 4 days. Need some relief fast! Sorry if I'm all over the place
I can't seem to stay still :(


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:35 am 
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Like Romeo said I have never heard of sub causing the symptoms you described unless it was taken too early and you are in precip withdrawl. The good news is you dont have to start over. Dr. Junig recommends continuing on sub. If it were me I would take a whole pill at once and see if you start to feel better. If you caused p.w. it may take a couple days to feel normal. It takes more sub in the detox period so you will require higher doses in the beginning.

Of course I am not a dr and above is just my opinion. I hope you continue your induction. I understand how hard it is to feel bad while caring for your children and am sorry you are suffering. I have 4 kids too, my boys are 5 & 3 and I have 14 month old twin girls. Sticking with your recovery is the best thing you can do for your children. There is a beautiful drug free life waiting for you.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:21 pm 
There is no way to make this transition seamless. You are going to have to deal with some kind of withdrawal at some point.

If you get PWD waiting 12 hours to dose, wait 18. If you still have PWD, wait 24.

OP doesn't have a HUGE habit but it's big enough that there is gonna be some pain involved.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:50 pm 
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Breezy- thank u so much! I was afraid but took my suboxone 8mg
This afternoon and feel the best I've felt in days. Not 100% but anything
Is better than how I was feeling. Going to see what the next few days
Bring. Do u mind me asking how long u have been on suboxone? Ins changed
Again! Gotta find new pcp, sub dr and that sucks to have to find another dr
Right in the middle of this crap. I even offered to pay sub dr out of pocket but
Ins won't pay for anything he writes. Ugh when will the merry go round end?
When I stay clean!!! I will be checking back, so feel free to leave advice. Don't have the
Energy to read other posts now but hope to be able to help anyone that's
In need when feeling better. Best of luck to all on this journey


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:57 pm 
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I am glad you are feeling better! You should be feeling much better in a day or two. It seems you just took your sub too soon. Keep us posted on your progress.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:11 pm 
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Actually I don't think I took enough. I did have a great feeling a minute ago. For the first times
In a long time I didn't have to worry about how many pills I have for tomorrow or how much money I need.
That is a great feeling! I do think the sub cause me anxiety. I've always had that problem with meds, funny how the
Roxi never seemed to be a problem....


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:26 pm 
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I'm glad the subs are working out for you. Please don't leave now that they seem to be working. Stick around and let us know your progress. You will be amazed @ what you can learn here. Good luck to you.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:43 am 
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surfsupl wrote:
I'm glad the subs are working out for you. Please don't leave now that they seem to be working. Stick around and let us know your progress. You will be amazed @ what you can learn here. Good luck to you.


It does sound to me like she didn't wait long enough or deal with enough withdrawal before trying suboxone, and when suboxone WAS administered, it wasn't enough. You have to take more the first (give or take) week, sometimes 3 to 5 days, to alleviate the withdrawals. It's not going to work properly if you don't take enough Suboxone. You'll feel like using, and cravings will overcome you. You'll think that you need the opiate (Percos or Roxys) and that'll bring you back around to using again. Make SURE that you take the Suboxone PROPERLY!!! There's a VERY thorough method of taking it, and when you are preparing to dose Suboxone, do so AT LEAST with 30 minutes to spare. You should place it under your tongue, making sure to SWALLOW BEFORE YOU DO IT. You don't want to have excess saliva and swallow a lot while you're holding your suboxone. THIS does make a difference! And just because you can't feel the medicine under your tongue anymore doesn't mean it's not still working. Don't swallow any remaining or rinse your mouth. Look at the clock and judge about 30 minutes from the time you put it under your tongue, and allow that time to pass before eating or drinking anything at all! And if you do have to swallow, which obviously you will within 30 minutes, try to swallow from the top of your mouth only -- this is a bit of practicing, but I have been on suboxone long enough that I can swallow without moving my tongue around and displacing the suboxone ...

Suboxone use is a routine. Practice comes with taking this med, as we're used to taking thing orally and just having them work via entering our blood stream from digestion or other methods...But suboxone is similar to the old LSD and acid users...under the tongue because a main blood vessel is there, and it gets into your bloodstream within minutes of placing it. This is why Suboxone should be allowed PLENTY of time to be administered when used sublingually.

I remember my induction when I first started Suboxone. The very first time I tried this drug, I went to a methadone clinic. Wasn't the doctor/patient setting in the privacy of a doctor's office that you can get now, granted, you can STILL go to some methadone clinics and be prescribed suboxone....things have changed though...
Anyway..
The doctor made it VERY clear how I should take Suboxone. I was brought into the methadone clinic on Wednesday, prior to receiving Suboxone on Friday. I HAD to test positive for an opiate in my system on Wednesdays UA test...so I had to continue using until that time. Once I left the clinic on that day though, I could not TOUCH anything else...and was to return EARLY Friday morning to receive my Suboxone (or so I THOUGHT). This was the LONGEST 2 days of my life! Wednesday wasn't that bad, but by Thursday PM...I was in agony! By 8 or 9 that night, I was so restless...just BLAH. I tried to sleep for most of the 2 days between going back, but that was impossible. I couldn't stretch my legs enough, I couldn't yawn enough...tears in my eyes every time I wiped them...it was awful. Friday morning FINALLY came around, and I was at the clinic at 5:45am, waiting. I thought to myself "maybe by 8am this will be over."
BLAH! It wound up taking them ALL day to get me my Suboxone. It was around 2pm that evening when the doctor told me to place the 1/2 of an 8mg-2mg pill under my tongue. We waited, and about 5 minutes after doing that, I still had visible withdrawal symptoms, so I was told to place the other 1/2 under my tongue. 5 more minutes, feeling MUCH better, but still some chills, one more 1/2..and that was my dose. 1 1/2 suboxone, per day, and 7 days worth.

Now things are MUCH different...as I go to the doctor and get my 3 month supply ...75 / month. Doctor office settings are a LOT more one-to-one with the doctor+patient being able to have a private setting..unlike the clinic, where the nurse and psychiatrist were all present with me during my dosing.

I MUCH prefer going to a doctor office and being seen rather than going into a methadone clinic..but if that was my only option, I'd still do that...and gladly go once a month. Now the once a week crap where they charge you $160 a visit each week..that's just the doctor's way of cleaning your pockets to make sure you don't have ANY money if you did want to jump off of Suboxone (I THINK).

In fact, I asked the doctor at the methadone clinic before I quit (or was "discharged") if he was doing that so that people couldn't afford to do ANYTHING but come see him, and should I direct my power bills and such to his office since he was taking everything I had, LITERALLY. He wanted me to come see him 1x week for 2 months, and pay him $160 each week that I came. Of COURSE I couldn't afford this, and fell off the wagon..but within 4 months, I was in a doctors office and doing the same thing, except this time it was MONTHLY, not weekly, and the doctor was writing me a month's supply, NOT A WEEK. Doctors know they are dealing with someone who has a disease, and this disease will dictate their lives, and they take advantage of that. There ARE some good doctors out there, and they do help their patients..but there are some that just don't care..and they treat the disease, not the patient.

The doctor I see now, when I explained to him my income situation, was VERY understanding. Of course, this was 2 years ago and things for me have changed DRASTICALLY...my wife got a job with the power company here in Alabama...so we're doing pretty OK...and now have insurance. But when I went to my current doctor, I had NO insurance, and was receiving Unemployment. That was IT. He really did what he could to help me stay in my treatment, and said that he could allow me to come see him 1 time every 3 months, and write my Suboxone for 3 months..but that was as long as he could write the prescription for. He asked would that help me, and I jumped out of my seat saying "yes"...
Lots different than going once a week, at $160 each week, or even once a month, at $110 each month. Now I go once every 3 months, at $190 each, but insurance picks up on some of that.

3+ years suboxone user..so I have many experiences to share if you have any questions.


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