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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:19 am 
Im thinking the best thing that can be done is what the doctor on here said to do. It makes sense but it will most definitely not be easy. I hate to hear that hes still in agony!! Has he taken his dose for today? Since you say he really never went into withdrawal from the methadone except for minor symptoms, he may also be starting to feel withdrawal from the methadone. Well, i guess that wouldnt be the case as long as he continues taking the sub. Just know that everybody on this forum is here for you as well as your husband. Feel free to ask as many questions as needed. Just know that once he gets through the horrible PW's, things will be back to "normal." This sickness hes feeling right now will no doubt pass within a short period of time. I wish you all the best!! Please keep posting if you feel like it. I would love to know how things are when he makes it through this.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:54 pm 
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well his day has turned from bad to worse. And he had to go to work, but on our way to the clinic, our car went into a ditch (snow storm) and now hes at work and lost his cell phone, so these incidents, are certainly not helping his mood that is for sure!

At th clinic the nurse and pharmacist spoke to us at length. 4 mg to start is the law. He can only be increased on Monday. the saddest thing? Sadly when we got to the clinic, there were a dozen others there for methadone. They saw him and asked what was wrong (I had to basically carry him in) and the receptionist stated that he switched to sub yesterday, all of them were like "thats proof Im not switching ever!" its so unfortunate, it could be the best thing for them, but they witnessed his discomfort and likely will never even fathom making a switch.

Havent spoken to him, with his cell being lost, its impossible to get in touch with him. But this morning, was not good, not good at all. Not worse, about the same.

I have never seen him cry, and he was crying. Its heartbreaking.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:57 pm 
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meant to add....the doctor didnt even know what precipitated withdrawals WERE!

Its like the blind leading the blind.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:07 pm 
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OMG, I feel so bad for you both. The doctor you trusted gave you bad advice based on his ignorance - that's not very good medical care. Did he take any sub today, or are you waiting until Monday? (Sorry if you mentioned this and I missed it.) I've been thinking about it and I would go with Dr. J's advice, too. Just push forward and he will start to feel better. Dr. J's blog post said P/W last 24-48 hours.

I'm at a loss about what I can say to help you. It's a bad situation that happened through no fault of your own. But you will get through it.

If I were you, I would keep researching sub and would start sending letters to your elected officials. They make the laws about sub after all and need to know and understand how those laws are affecting people, including inadequately trained doctors.

Thanks for keeping us posted.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:10 pm 
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the doctor forced him to take sub today.
What I also didnt like is he looked at Mike and asked if he preferred going back on methadone. Its very frustrating. I wanted to ring his neck. All of this hell cant be for nothing. And thats what I kept reinforcing. Hes already knee deep, might as well treck towards the finish line for the reward!


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:18 pm 
Oh my lord you say this doctor didnt even know what PW was? Holy wow!! This doctor should not be working with this medication if he doesnt know everything about it. I've always thought that the requirements to get a doctor certified should be much more thorough and way more strict. Honestly, every tom dick and harry is gonna be prescribing sub. Its a shame it truly is. I understand this medication is new where yall are but the guidelines to prescribing it and the information these doctors are supposed to know is in no way new. This doctor should have known everything about this medicine before he ever wrote that script. I really dont know who is to blame here. Is it Reckitt Benkisers fault for not providing proper training to these doctors or is it the doctors fault for getting into this for the wrong reasons? Im sorry to hear things are not going well!! I really hope things will smooth out very very soon and given the fact that this doctor does not know very much about what he is doing, i think this site is the best place for you to get as much information as you can to get your husband through this rough transition. It is truly worth it if this is what he wants to do. It does pass although i know it will seem like forever. He will be like his normal self when it does pass and the induction is complete. The sickness will be gone as if it never existed. Just hang in their and tell your husband to fight as hard as he can and that it will get better within a day or so. Im thinking today may be the worst. I could be wrong but it should start getting better after today. Thats only my opinion. Let us know how it goes because i cant wait to see how he feels once stable. Take care!!


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:13 pm 
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good news! its been a few hours but things are looking up! he found his cell phone for one thing, and called and he said he feels WAY better. the second dose really helped him. Thank goodness! I am learning so much from everyone here and am sifting through this site with a fine tooth comb....thank god I found you all!


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:00 pm 
Yay!! Thats awesome news!! I think things should only get better from here on out. If he has started feeling better then i would most definitely say that the worst has probably past. Dont quote that as fact as its only my opinion. So how do you think he feels about sub now? Or is it still too soon to tell? Well, hopefully it will do as i suspect an gradually get better from here on. I know i felt better as soon as i took it but it took a few months before any of the changes started with my mentality etc. etc. About the 3rd month is when things just started taking positive turns in every thing i did. Honestly, i have noticed positive changes throughout my whole treatment. Its like the changes just keep poppin up in different aspects of my life. Its a wonderful feeling thats for sure. Well, im really glad to hear this positive news and i hope things continue to improve!! Take care!!


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:56 pm 
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would you all think Im crazy if I told you he "looked" different...clearer...if that makes any sence....its just....amazing.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:40 pm 
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I just wanted to pop in and offer my support to you both. You are a wonderful wife for helping and supporting him through this and I think on behalf of him any any other addict with a partner who has done this, I can say it means more than anything in the world. Being addicted is one of the lonliest places in the world and having a partner you can talk to and who helps you get better is priceless. So thank you.

Second, I am glad to hear he is doing better. Canada really needs to get with it on this one. Generally speaking, I love Canada, but from all the Canadian's I have heard taking suboxone, I can say they really need to just get with it for crying out loud. Clearly this doctor is experimenting with your husband so it's a good thing you are getting good information here and not bad information elsewhere. Maybe he will be openminded enough to listen to you a little along the way.

I am glad your husband is feeling better. In terms of dosage, it really varies. I think most people could probably make it on 8mg per day and for that matter probably 6mg, but everyone is different. I have seen some pretty heavy former drug users start off with 4mg per day and be perfectly satisfied. I have seen some people with fairly minor drug problems take 16mg per day and feel like they need more because they are having cravings. Metabolism probably has something to do with it (a little) and I think other psychiatric disorders has something to do with it. Your general ability to cope with anxiety makes a difference. How far you have separated yourself from using people probably makes a difference. I am probably missing a few things.

After a week or two, your husband could probably best tell you how he feels and whether or not he needs more. The thing with sub though is that if you need more, you don't necessarily need to increase the dose x2. For example, a lot of doctors will prescribe 8mg and if the patient doesn't think that is enough they will automatically go to 16mg. In all reality, the person might be just fine with 10mg. I think when finding the right dose, you can go up in 2mg increments. Of course in Canada, you will most certainly be at the mercy of the system and I am pretty sure you can only take 8mg per day there.

Cherie

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:11 pm 
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Thank you very much Cherie.

I just wanted to tell you all something, primarily, thank you. Yesterday was one of the worst days Ive endured in years, and here, on this very thread, your words of experience and knowledge helped me tremendously. And Im grateful. Ive been sifting through the site all day, and I have come across many posts of plees for help for a family member or friend, and after one post, that individual vanishes. Im not that person. I dont know where I would fit in this message board as Im only witnessing the sub treatment and not in it, not sure if I can even post elsewhere as again Im not on the sub myself but I dont want to vanish from this board either. You have all helped me on my journey, and in return I want to be there for yours in whatever capacity I can.

Thanks again for your kind words. I remember many years ago, when Mike was hitting rock bottom, I attended NAR-ANON meetings, I never returned after the 3rd meeting. I was shocked to see the amount of parents, spouses, friends that cut off their loved ones for the sake of the tough love approach. I cant do that. I remember a member of the group was questioning me as I was leaving and I told her its just not be to flee, Im not an idiot and wont allow myself to be taken advantage of, but my theory was Mike took over the addiction, the addiction didnt take over Mike. He was still Mike. Its saddening when I saw all these broken up marriages. I guess I have the attitude that everything, with effort and patience and desire, can be fixed. So thank you.

He is doing much much better. Hes gone to bed early as he started to get irritable. I guess the sub is coming out of his system as his dose was early this morning. But this too, we shall overcome with time and the right dosage to stabilize him.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 1:05 am 
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hey, i just wanted to stop in and say im glad your husband is feeling better. i just read this entire thread straight through and it really is a shame that the dr's in Canada do not know alot about subs. it makes me very sad. i know that when i went through my induction my dr was very very worried about pw's and made me come back for a second visit because hee said i wasnt sick enough. at the time i thought it was sort of BS but after reading alot of stuff on this forum i have come to realize it really was for the better. either way i wanted to make a quick personal comparison to methadone. i have never taken dones for a long period of time (not more then 5 days). i know for me there was huge huge difference between the methadose and methadone. one is time release and the other isnt. the methadone worked alot better for me but it still didnt give me the normal feeling that subs give me. methadone def didnt give me the high feeling either but it made me feel weird, kind of fuzzy and very similair to when a dumb doctor perscribed me depakote when i wasnt bi polar manic. with any methadone or dose i felt dizzy if i stood up or sat down to quickly. i couldnt exercise on it or do much of anything. now i have a friend who methadone works great for but i personally notice a ten fold difference between subs and dones, but thats just a personal experience and i know its different for everyone. anyways i hope that everything keeps moving positively for you.

also im typing in the dark so there could be typos-i apologize


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:39 am 
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Toronto - You don't have to be on ORT to be a member of this site. You can certainly post in this current section and I suspect you can respond to any post where you think you have something you would like to say. Everyone has valuable opinions. I would say the only limits you have on this site are those you may place on yourself.

That's not to say someone else may have a different opinion, but I'm pretty sure technically, you can do what you want.

Welcome!

Cherie

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:48 am 
Honestly, i seriously doubt someone could even come up with 1 single reason as to why you cant post on this forum. Your post are more than welcome. Somebody else could come on here in your exact situation and you would be able to help them through it. I think your husband is very lucky to have you!! Im looking forward to hearing how Mike feels after a week or two. Oh and to answer your question, my mom noticed i started to look much healthier after a bit of time taking sub. I think its because she had seen me looking so rough from withdrawal all the time that when i finally took sub it was almost instant relief which brought a nice shiny smile to my face.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:51 am 
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Thanks very much all.

Well its a new day, and he feels fine, I think the only downfall with sub is having to go to the clinic everyday. and the cost.
What are you all paying?

Here is $22 per DAY, but luckily we have health insurance through my work that cover 80% of the cost. Mind you if you compare $22 vs what would be spent on the black market for painkillers, I guess its really not that bad and pretty comparable.

I hope they make it cheaper for those who cant afford it here. Not everyone has health insurance, only big companies offer it to their employees, so were fortunate, I asked the pharmacist (located in the clinic) if they can tell me how many sub users are in the clinic, the answer was disheartening, Mike is one of FIVE!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:08 pm 
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I'm sorry your husband has to go to the clinic every day. One of the major benefits of Sub here in the US over methadone is that you can have regular doctor's office visits and take home a month's prescription. Hopefully Canada will eventually do the same. I'm glad you both got through the ordeal of this week-end and he's feeling better. As others have said your husband was blessed to have you supporting him.
I learned a lot myself about PW's switching from methadone, and I'm sorry I gave you the wrong info. when I replied. I think we need to get more experiences out here on the forum about methadone, so we can properly advise people. Questions about methadone to Sub, and Sub to methadone seem to be coming up more frequently lately.
I wish you and your husband all the best, and please continue to post.
Lilly


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:07 pm 
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I'm so glad to hear he is doing so much better. That's terrific...finally, right? I know you must feel like you've started to breath again. Hang in there and thanks for keeping us posted.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:58 am 
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Hi all, well, it was a rocky start yesterday. He went in for his dose first thing in the mornning (9 am)...and the clinic told him that he doesnt have a prescription, that it ended Sunday, he has to wait for the doctor.
He waited until....630 pm.
By then he was getting sick again.
Today is a new day, and hopefully, it wont be drama filled.
What a mess.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:40 pm 
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OK.....this is a problem. Is this because of Canada's healthcare system? Do you have choices on what clinic you go to and who you see? Because I don't see a doctor in the US doing this to a PAYING patient. That is insane and cruel. This is the 2nd time they have done something to cause his discomfort. I mean.....if they would do this right, he could be functional and feel normal and be happy. But they keep screwing this up and making it miserable for him. Poor guy. He must be so determined.....for you....for both of you. Because I can tell you if I was going through that much withdrawal I would have convinced myself I didn't want kids by then. Seriously. I wish I could drive to Toronto and just give him a suboxone. Poor guy!

Cherie

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:18 am 
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My take on ur last post and some of your other post is i had a prob. with the 1st doc. i seen i felt let say his beside manner whats not what i felt it should be.My wife felt the same way to so i went to another doc. that a friend of mine told me to go to in the 1st place.I used the the 1st doc. because it was a friday and i had already been on my 4th day of w/d i couldnt take anymore so i went to that doc. it was like go there and pay more money to get off this crap and take my life back are wait threw the weeken for the other doc. which i knew i would never made it threw the weeken without going to the dopeman.But after seenin this 1st doc. i went to the other one a friend of told me about and these ppl made me feel like i was a human being not like i was some drugged out loser.SO what i am tryin to say is maybe find a better doc. and that was 10 months ago after years of abuse.


Good Luck Blessed Be .....


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