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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 10:26 am 
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I guess I decided to look through the "Why are people mad at suboxone" thread and read some very interesting posts. Although I know that a lot of what was posted by the anti-subbers were unsubstantiated bullshit, they DO make some valid points about the long term side effects of sub not really being known, that wds are worse with long acting opiates like sub and methadone, that PAWS can be exponentially worse when coming off...I'm scared. That being said, the "side effects" of staying on oxy for me is death. i guess I'd take a low libido or other nuisance side effects first. Also I've tried the abstinance route. Went through TEN DAYS of horrible physical crap only to be met with the worst depression of my life. My mind was mush and a month into my recovery I couldn't take it anymore and relapsed. There is no easy way out of the hell of opiate addiction and I know I've gotta do what's best for me but I am second guessing my decision and just need some support and encouragement so I can feel positive in taking the sub route.

I will be going in May 11th albeit with some reservations. The fact is I need to get out of active addiction and if sub can help me restore my life to some kind of normalcy and halt the slow death that is happening to me every time I do another pill then the ends justify the means. I'm rambling sorry I'm just nervous and hope I'm doing the right thing. Please tell me I'm making the right choice. Tell me your story and how your sure you made the right choice... I need to get this nagging doubt out of my brain. What a bitch opiate addiction is...


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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 10:39 am 
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Another concern: Which is "better" using sub for a short detox (say a taper of 21 days) or staying on it for awhile? I have read up on it and some people believe a short detox is best while others believe staying on it for awhile to get therapy, learn new coping skills produces better outcomes and a lower relapse rate. I'm wondering if I can get some feedback on that. If it meant life or death, I'd stay on it indefinitely but I guess I'm just trying to formulate a recovery plan and set some goals. Although "ideally" i'd be able to be completely off drugs one day I often wonder if I was born with a less then ideal system as far as my brain producing enough feel good chemicals on its own. I have suffered depression and anxiety since childhood, long before I ever touched an opiate and I think thats why I got so hooked in the first place - opiates "cured" my depression. I also know there is no one size fits all approach to recovery. We gotta figure out what works for us and I guess I'm just trying to figure that out for myself. I'm also afraid of the stigma of subs. Will I have to tell my family doctor or can I keep it between me and the sub doctor? Will the pharmacist treat me like a criminal when I go in for my dose? Ahhh so many questions and concerns and yet my induction is just days away. Please help me sort this out. I am grateful for any advice and feedback.


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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 10:44 am 
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Hi free bird,

I'm sorry a bunch of anti-sub people are causing you additional anxiety. First let me say that there are lots of people here who have either jumped or tapered off suboxone who've attested to it NOT being worse than full agonists. Many have told their whole taper story on this forum.

As for my story, I've been on suboxone for the last 16 or so months and I've never looked back and never regretted being on it. You're right, the alternative is continued active addiction and possibly death. Suboxone took me off that vicious merry-go-round of crazed addiction behavior. I didn't have a "normal" induction, in fact I never even made the choice of going on suboxone. My addiction led me to an in-patient psych ward where they put me on suboxone. Talk about rock bottom! The drugs I was taking/snorting practically drove me out of my mind. Suboxone helped me come back to sanity and normalcy again. I take many different medications with their own side effects, but sub is the only one that I feel has made such a major difference in my life. I can easily and confidently say it saved my life - and my mind.

I also think it's completely normal for you to be nervous about your induction. No matter what we tell you, you really don't know what to expect. And when it comes to unknowns, well, they make us uncomfortable. So that anxiety is normal and I'd say to be expected.

No one can tell you if your decision is the right one, but I can, without hesitation, say it was the right move for me. If for whatever reason you don't like it, you can always go off it. Yes, you can go off it. Try to ignore the naysayers. And remember, with the exception of this site, I think the people with the most complaints are the ones posting on websites. The people that are happy on suboxone tend not to post those good experiences. So maybe think of it that way.

I hope this makes sense to you and will help give you some insight and perspective. Personally, I think suboxone is the way to go to reach addiction remission.

Good luck and keep us posted.

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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 11:42 am 
Freebird, I completely understand your apprehension. You seem to be an intelligent and insightful person who has done the proper research and come to the appropriate conclusions. I don't have tons to add to what Hatmaker said, but you asked for the 'stories' of others. Mine is actually similar to yours in that I did the abstinence route and was unable to maintain sobriety because of PAWS. The dysphoria and low motivation did not lift after many months and I could not continue living that way.
I got to the point last July where I knew I had no other choice but to try something different. It was not a decision I took lightly. The price for my decision to go on Suboxone was extraordinarily high. Not only was there the financial concern regarding the cost of doctor visits and medication, there was also the cost for me of surrendering my nursing license. A license I had worked hard for and a career that I had built for almost 20 years. You can't imagine the all-encompassing ramifications of letting that go. I felt there was no other way. My addiction had taken so much from me already. I couldn't let it keep taking more. There was no denying that I couldn't go on the way I was for much longer. Something had to change!
I went into my treatment with Suboxone much like you......uncertain, but willing to try it. I left that appointment feeling good, hopeful, and free. Some others have mentioned a brief period of feeling 'high' or altered in some way. I felt none of that. I felt normal....just normal....and it felt fantastic. My mind was, for the first time in years, not obsessed with drugs....finding, getting and taking more. I knew right then that I had made the right choice. I needed time to think clearly, to work on my recovery, to find what would work for me long-term. At that time, I was unsure as to how long I would stay on it. It became clear after that first month or so, that this would not be a quick fix. I know some people do a quick taper and do okay.....at least at first. I cannot, however, think of a single instance in which someone who did a quick taper came back and posted many months later that they were still 'clean.' On the other hand, I know of several who came back and posted that after their quick tapers, they did relapse within a short period of time and had to go back and start over. Therefore, it seems to me that a quick taper would not give you time to gain much ground in recovery.
My goal in those earlier months was to get to the lowest dose I could that would keep w/d symptoms at bay as well as keep my cravings under control. That will vary from person to person, and not everyone feels the way I do about the issue. Some people prefer to stay at around 16mg/day, experience minimal side effects and are comfortable staying there indefinitely. I did have some mild side effects and found that I felt better over all with doses of 8mg/day or less. For me, a flexible attitude along with reasonable expectations of the medication has worked best. You sound to me like you are going in knowing that Sub is not going to CURE your opiate addiction and that you'll need other modalities to get better. That is the right attitude. Along with that.....consider going in with an open attitude about how long you'll stay on it. That's what I've done and so far, so good. It's been 10 months now for me. I had loosely planned on 6 months to one year on the drug and that has now turned into at least one year, maybe more on Suboxone. I'm down to ~1.5 mg/day now and doing just fine. I am super thankful for this medication. I know where I was headed without it and I think you do too. When it all boils down.....do you really have a choice? I didn't feel like I did any more. I had to do something different. I had to trust my decision and my ability, once stable, to get better. I found this site and that just helped to reinforce my choice. I honestly haven't spent much time on the anti-Sub sites. I don't need any more shame or fear to carry. Most of the people around here are here to help and support one another. It's generally not a bitch-fest or a blame-game like what I hear about some other sites.
I feel like you're making the right choice, but it's entirely your's to make. Again, you sound more than capable of making it. Trust yourself on this one. Worst case scenario, you won't do well (for reasons I can't really imagine right now) and you'll decide to come off the drug. I can't fathom it being any worse than what I went through coming off full agonists and so far, it's been nowhere near as hard. So really, what have you go to lose?
disclaimer - my opinions only, I'm not a doctor or an addiction treatment expert.
I wish you the best and hope we're helping!


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 Post subject: Nothing to Lose.....
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 11:51 am 
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Hi free_bird,
Don't feel bad about being nervous about this change in your life.... It's natural to be concerned when you take a big step like this. But this step may save your life so I think it is a step worth taking... Hatmaker brings up some great points (as usual) and I can tell you from MY experience that Suboxone was the way to go for me.. Some quick back-round.... I was taking 300 -350 mgs of Oxycodone a day when I got into treatment and it has been nothing short of God Send!! Like you I tried Cold Turkey, tapering, etc. ... All with little or NO luck. Until I found Suboxone and started my treatment, including counseling and therapy (including this Forum) my whole life was on a DOWNWARD spiral and heading for a Crash Landing.... The Anti-Sub people do bring up some valid points BUT, when I weighed the options I choose Suboxone and in hindsight it was without a doubt the BEST / Smartest Decision I have Ever made..... :) I'm on my way out to a meeting But if you want more info or have some questions feel free to PM me.... Stay strong and I hope your wait goes quickly for you. You have made the right decision to go on Suboxone.... Please Don't second guess yourself...... Best of luck!!

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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 12:02 pm 
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About your other concerns/questions regarding short or long term usage. I look at it this way: Short term might get one thru the physical withdrawals, but what will it do for long-term, stable recovery? Not much at all! Long term sub use allows us to get used to being "clean", experience feelings we've been numbing for so long, get long-term recovery plans in place, get a therapist and start working on our original issues that may have led us to opiate abuse in the first place. In other words, a long-term recovery plan customized to fit YOUR needs Personally, I just don't see much in way of positives from short-term usage. I plan on being on suboxone for the long haul. Of course I also use it for pain control and I have no other options, so this is really the only way to go for me.

As for the stigma...well, people that focus on that and nothing else will always find something to judge others by. I would encourage you to share it with your family doctor. They can't appropriately treat you if they don't know your full history and medications. But you must make that decision based on what you know of your doctor and how open-minded you believe her/him to be. Regarding the pharmacy, I've never had a problem. I've gotten nothing but respect from my pharmacy staff.

I hope some of this helps.

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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 12:08 pm 
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Thanks to both of you,

I think this is the best route to go given that I've tried abstinance and relapsed, I've tried tapering with no success and I know I can't stay on oxys anymore. At least on sub I can get my life under control and concentrate on a recovery program. When I think of how much I've lost in just one year on oxys the idea of dragging active addiction out any longer then I have to is insane.

I used to have other interests, there was a time not too long ago that my thoughts weren't solely on pills day and night. I long for those days. It kills me how quickly the pills took over and before I knew it I no longer had a choice, I needed oxys just to be "normal", just to function. Now I no longer am even good at functioning. My motivation is gone, things I intend on doing get put off until they just don't ever get done. Things that were important to me now take a back seat. Oxy is driving and I'm an unwilling passenger but until now could see no way out.

Do I have to tell my family doctor that I'm on subs? I'm just scared that if he knows maybe he'll report me to Childrens Aid for being a pill abuser. I have so much fear about that. I'm in canada and subs are almost unknown here and doctors don't seem to "get" what its like to end up hooked on opiates. They look down on addicts and I'm so scared that if I go on suboxone i'm opening myself up to potential trouble. I would rather just deal with my sub doctor because after talking to him a few times I feel he understands and I can trust him not to make trouble for me. I'm not so sure about my family doctor. That being said, my mom was addicted to opiates - that he also prescribed - and he never called on her and she was a lot worse off then me. In fact her addiction took her life 5 yrs ago.

I guess I just have to try and put the fears aside and keep the big picture in mind. Being FREE from active addiction!!


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 Post subject: it will be okay
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 12:09 pm 
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hey Free bird,

I can understand exactly how you feel right now. I felt the exact same way. I found out about sub on another forum, that actually is very anti sub. So, I spent at least a year trying to quit on my own, did a 3 month long taper, all with help from people at this other forum. Well, I still managed to relapse for the same reasons every does, I couldn't stand to be in my own skin.

When I finally got on sub, I was so relieved, I honetly thought that finally I would be free of this addiction. Well, it wasn't quite that easy because I was still in a lot of pain. I also had just been through 3 years of cancer, surgeries and endless chemo treatments, so my body was a wreck. Sub was not managing my pain at all so I relapsed again, even with the sub. I also had a horrible time inducting because I did not wait long enough, after using time released opiates.

Anyway, I finally figured out how to dose my sub so it manages my pain and am doing a lot better. I still have a lot of anxiety, a ton of it, but that is my own guilt and shame at the mess I've uncovered. I spent my whole life savings, and an inheritance from my mother all on oxycontin, so it's really hard right now. BUT, if it wasn't for the sub, I know I'd be even in a worse mess. For a long time I was able to cover up my addiction with the cancer. I was isolating all the time, and felt horrible, but no one said much because of everything I had been through. Well, it's been over a year now since I've had chemo, so I can't take any more time off work being sick, can't live in my bedroom, don't really have any more excuses why I can't........

It's also difficult because as you have probably figured out, there are not many Canadians on sub yet. maybe your doctor has other sub patients he can connect you with, just so you have some support. I have this forum, and that's it. I see a therapist but he doesn't know much about sub, except for what I have told him, and he thinks it's like methadone, and wants me off it, so he is not much help either.

I'm not sure if I was any help. Even with all the struggles that I've had since I found sub, I know I'd be way worse off right now if I didn't have it. I probably would have lost my job, that I love by now, and may possibly be dead, or at least on the psych ward of the hospital.

I think you will be surprised at how "normal" you feel. It takes a while to get used to. If you don't go on sub, what is your other option? do you have one? I know I didn't. You are doing the right thing by asking questions about all of your concerns. keep asking..

Ginger[font=Arial] [/font][align=justify][align=justify]


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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 12:31 pm 
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Hi Ginger,

Your right, I really don't have any other options at the moment. I am in too deep and like you, carry a tremendous amount of heart wrenching guilt over the money I've thrown away on pills and the things I've done to get more. I just found out that my sub doctor does not do the induction in office but rather writes a script and gives you instructions on how to induct yourself. I was really hoping he did it in office because I know by the time I leave his office I will be feeling even more horrible then when I walked in and I'll have to go straight to the pharmacy to get my sub. I don't know how I'll manage my pain with sub, maybe you can shed some light on that. I have spinal stenosis and thats one thing thats really concerning me - is how to manage my pain on sub. I know the doc might try and talk me into methadone because its indicated for pain but I really would rather try subs first.

Thanks again for your responses and keep them coming! ;) The more success stories I read, the better I feel.


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 Post subject: pharmacy
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 1:01 pm 
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Hi,

Just one more things I should tell you.

You should ask the sub doctor where his sub patients get their scripts, because I know I am the only person that my doc prescribes sub to, and the only person in the whole city.

So, call around and find a pharmacy that will get sub.  This is really important because it took my pharmacy 2 days to get it after they ordered it. The good thing was I was not sure what my doctor would say, so i was not ready to induct that day anyway, so it wasn't a big deal to have to wait 2 more days.

BUT, you will be ready, and that would be a huge disappointment for you, if your pharmacy did not even have the sub.

I always call my pharmacist 2 days before i am going to pcik up my script so he orders it. It is too expensive for him to have it there just in case I want it again.

I'm glad I thought of that...

Will let you know if i think of anything else,
Ginger
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 1:35 pm 
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Hi, it's me again,

I just thought of something else. It's not quite as important as the last thing, but something to know.

Sub is different in Canada. It is white and comes in blister packages of seven, and then that is in a box. That box of 7 is supposed to be a weeks worth. The pharmacist told me that doctros are supposed to prescribe 1 8mg sub a day. My doc prescribes 2 a day, but I had to ask him to, and also he is prescribing it for pain, so can do it a little differently. It is good that it comes in blister packages because it is always very fresh, whcih I have read a few times can be a problem in the US.

It crumbles very easily and dissolves VERY fast. When i read to keep it under your tongue for 10 minutes, I couldn't figure it out until I realized how different it is here. It dissloves almost immediately, but I still don't eat or drink anything for 20 minutes or so. Also, we do not have Subutex, or at least Canada did not a year ago, that could have changed by now.

The only other thing I can think of is that it is supposed to be prescribed like methadone for the first three months, meaning you are supposed to pick up your script every day, for 3 months, or until your urine tests are clean. I know that when I was looking for a sub doctor, the clinics in Toronto that I did find, prescribed like that. You had to pick it up every day and that was impossible for me, because I live a 3 hour drive from Toronto.

I have been very fortunate because both my doctor and my pharmacist have known me for a very long time (my doc for over 20 years), so he was okay prescribing it to me for a month at a time, and my pharmacist was okay with it, because I have dealt with him forever. i don't know if you already have asked these questions or not, but it is going to be important to know, especially if your pharmacy has to order it.

okay, need to get back to work. I have to do a workshop tomorrow and have a ton of things to do still. The GOOD thing is that my head is clear and NOT all fogged up on oxycontin, so it should be a good day.

talk to you soon,


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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 1:45 pm 
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Hey Bird! I haven't posted on this thread, but I have been following your countdown to "Sub-Day". The first time I was on sub, I decided I wanted to do a short treatment. I started at 8mg (for about 2 weeks), and slowly tapered over about 10 weeks until I was off. I too had read all of the stories, and kept waiting for the explosive diarrhea, projectile vomiting, sheet-soaking night sweats, and pain ("it's like all my muscles are in a vice" was one comment on some site online :roll:). All I got was some mild nausea and acid reflux (took some Maalox..pretty much gone), fatigue, and sneezing. I also had the mental stuff (more cravings, foggy, irritable). But, it was all manageable.....unlike my previous withdrawal. At no point did I ever think, "I should go back on opiates and end this pain" (which is what I always thought when I tried to stop other full-agonist opiates). I eventually relapsed (a lot of factors involved....I wrote a post about it, so I won't repeat myself), and have been back on since January. I sort of wish that I had done a long-term treatment from the beginning, but I'm also glad that I have gone off it because I no longer fear the withdrawal phase....I just don't know if I can deal with the "living without Sub for the rest of my life" phase.....that's the one that's REALLY a bitch :wink: .

As far as the doctor and pharmacist thing, I've actually noticed that my pharmacist and doctors have been much more cordial to me since I came clean. I love the "angry pharmacist" blog, and I think someone else has posted his comments about Sub on this page before, but he once talked about how he felt about people who come into the pharmacy with a script for Suboxone. There were a lot of comments made about the post, and these were some of my favorites:

"I know at our pharmacy, there are a few times we will joke about people and their valtrex or something like that. However, Suboxone/Subutex are not ones we joke about. We may talk about it though, but for many of our patients it is sympathy or pride. We have one patient who was one of our druggies for a while. Recently he brought in a Suboxone prescription and apologised for all the trouble he had given us. We talked with him for a while and let him know that he had our support. He is doing very well and will come in about 8 when we aren’t busy anymore and talk for a while with us. I am glad he is taking steps to improve his life. There are two or three patients we have that we are part of their support group. I never think duragatory things about suboxone patients. I have only respect for those who are trying to improve themselves."

"When I see Suboxone I usually think “Good for you.”
Same for Chantix. If I even bother having a thought about it at all."

"If you bring me a script for buprenorphine I guard your privacy, I respect your decision, and I quietly cheerlead for your recovery. I would never think “junkie”. I only think “junkie” when you bring me a Dilaudid RX written in marker."

So, these are directly from the horses mouth, if you will......and I have found that most doctors are the same way Yea, there are some assholes out there, but most of them just want their patients to be healthy, and they really appreciate the honesty. Seriously, the first time I told an ER doctor that I was an addict, and didn't any narcotics, he told me that I had just made his day....I think they get sick of people trying to con them , so they appreciate the honesty.

You're making an awesome decision....I can't wait to hear from you next week when everything is settled down. I hope you're as happy and relaxed as most if us were after we induced and got used to being on sub....freedom is a GREAT feeling! :D

Take care!
Elizabeth

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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 1:54 pm 
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Hi Ginger,

You are very lucky to have your family doctor able to prescribe it for you. In fact I'm thinking about asking mine to do the same but I'm nervous. I've known this doctor also for well over 20 years and although he's a great guy I just worry about confessing that i've become addicted to the medication he prescribed to me. He no longer is the one giving me oxys (he referred me to a pain clinic) but he started giving me them a year ago and he was reluctant to prescribe me narcotics because he knew my mom died as a result of opiate addiction. I persuaded him honestly believing I would not get addicted and I guess I feel ashamed in telling him I did. Also I'm worried he might report me to childrens aid. On the other hand, i could be worried for nothing and he might be able to prescribe them to me for pain mgmt and I could also avoid daily pharmacy visits etc.

I have an appointment to see my family doc tommorow and am trying to figure out whether to tell him and try and get him to prescribe sub to me or just not tell him at all and go see the sub doc on May 11th as planned but have to do daily visits to the pharmacy to get my dose and deal with a doctor who i have never met before.

Do you have any advice about this?


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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 4:06 pm 
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Hi free_bird:

You asked about talking to your family doctor about prescribing suboxone. I don't know where you live, but in the united states, in order for a doctor to prescribe suboxone for addiction, they must be "certified" to write the prescription. ANY doctor, however, can prescribe suboxone for pain management.

As for your anxiety about getting on suboxone, I can certainly understand your concerns. I don't know a whole lot about you, but if you are anything like the average person who posts here, then you've had significant problems with opiate addiction. Yes, getting off suboxone is hard work, and it can take a long time if you want to do it in a way that minimizes or mostly avoids acute withdrawal symptoms. I can only "speak" for myself, but I have no plans right now to come off suboxone. I am a middle aged drug addict who has been abusing opiates for over 30 years. I went to prison for 16+ years and even abused opiates while I was locked up :roll: My addiction has been cunning, baffling and powerful. And I have relapsed more times than I care to think about. I have chronic, advanced Hepatitis C from my years as an IV drug user and I face a very likely round of what amounts to chemo therapy and/or a liver transplant some time in the next 10 to 15 years because of this.....

Basically, my life was a living hell in active addiction and I simply could NOT, no matter how hard I tried, stop using drugs.....until I got on suboxone. The transformation was, quite frankly, AMAZING. My life improved IMMEDIATELY, and SUBSTANTIALLY.

I am of the same opinion as the doctor who owns this web site. I have a chronic condition called addiction. This condition can EASILY kill me. It kills countless people every single day. Why in the world would I shun a treatment option that can put my illness in "remission" and give me a chance to have a relatively normal, happy life?

Yes, we don't know yet if there are any long term negative effects of using suboxone. That is true. But what are the long term negative effects of NOT using suboxone? For me? Jail, or death.

So, my choices are:

Jail
Death
Suboxone

Guess which one I'm going to pick?

I wish you the best, free_bird.


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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 4:28 pm 
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Ene579 recently wrote:

"I love the "angry pharmacist" blog"

OMG - I can't stop reading it. This guy is hilarious. I just have to thank you for making mention of this blog. I love it. Yeah, I'm pretty sarcastic myself so no doubt I would love a guy that writes like the Angry Pharmacist does. But, still...

Thank you so much for making mention of this, Elizabeth.


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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 8:10 pm 
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First I will say that it is true....you don't really have a choice. I know I didn't.

Second, I jumped at 12mg and I am sorry, but these people who claim it is the worst withdrawal EVER are total pussies who never made it through withdrawal of full agonists because mine was only about 50% as bad. It IS true that it is a bit longer but at least I could work. I realize we all have a different experience but I am not buying it. There is no get out of jail free card on addiction. Unfortunately! We screwed ourselves and it fucking sucks. PERIOD. Now what to do? For me, I was horribly depressed before opitates and I am horribly depressed off opiates and I am horribly depressed off suboxone. It all sucks. At least ON subocone I am not horribly depressed, I live my life, am totally functional, am considered one of the best employees at work, have no debt, blah blah. I have nothing to feel guilty for today. I am not screwing over my husband or my family. I think of my addiction every day because I am in remission and I come here and I put a little orange pill in my mouth every day. But I am not banging my head against a wall.

Let me put this in your head......the one person I have seen on this forum claim suboxone withdrawal was the WORST thing ever......had never gone through it. They were saying it because someone else said it and they were repeating it as though it were an experience they actually had themselves. How many others are out there just like that spreading CRAP? (Possibly killing people who decide not to take it mind you).

At least now when I went off of suboxone and didn't like it, I went back on suboxone instead of going back on drugs and ruining my entire life and my husbands. The alternative is to go back to getting high, spending money I don't have, and living that nightmare I used to call life.

I don't know of anything that proves PAWS is any longer from suboxone than it is with any other drug. Some people say that, but the people I have seen say that haven't made it past 3 months and it isn't uncommon for alcohol to cause PAWS for 3 months. And again........if you could stay clean without suboxone.....you would already be doing it.

Pain is an issue and sounds like more of an issue in Canada. I always loved Canada until I learned they weren't great with the suboxone :-) Ah well.....they will catch on :-) My pain is not controlled on suboxone, but it is much better than without. I also find that I am less stressed on suboxone so one of my two conditions doesn't even act up as often. So....it is worth a shot. If you stay on pain killers to manage your pain it will still never be enough anyways.

Cherie


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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 8:51 pm 
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Like Cherie, I urge you to take the negative w/d comments with a grain of salt. I went through Methadone w/d (I stole it for years from a family member who took it for pain control, I wasn't in a Methadone program....and it is possibly the most shameful thing did as an addict :oops: Actually, there was that time I......never mind). When this person died, my supply was cut-off, and I went through w/d for months....that was hell. In fact, that's why I got onto the other "more mild" opiates....I was going to use them to help with the symptoms, then taper off of them....great plan....talk about "double-addicted" (that was for donh) :D . Seriously though, the w/d off of sub was NOTHING compared to that....it NEVER made me want to go back to using full agonists.

Think of it this way. You know that you need to stop using, so you're going to have to w/d off an opiate, right? The question is, do you get on sub, get sober, and work a program....then (only f you want to) slowly taper off under a doctor's supervision, or do you want to go cold turkey off oxy? And how well has that worked in the past?

As far as the doctor's reaction, I obviously don't know your doctor, but mine specifically talked about this when I first saw him. He was telling me the importance of being honest with him,even if I relapsed. His exact words were, "I'm not the police, I'm not going to turn you in. I don't turn people in who come to me for help when they are sick.". I was in grad school until recently studying to be a therapist, and they always told us what you read....is the person a danger to themselves or others? A person who is following a sub program is neither. I think your family doctor would be understanding, if he is concerned about your kids, would want to do everything to help you stay off oxy. Having said that, I don't know your doctor, and I don't know the rules in Canada....but I seriously doubt he would turn you in for asking for help.

Donh....I love that site....there a a couple similar ones (The Angriest pharmacist, The Angry intern), but none as good as the original....that is one angry angry man, but he is usually right on the money!

_________________
Elizabeth

Subs Not Drugs!!!

"Don't hope for a life without problems. An easy life results in a judgmental and lazy mind."
- Zen Master Kyong Ho


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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 10:18 pm 
Hi Freebird, You've gotten a lot of good responses, so there's not much I can add. I just want to say that now you are still in the hell of addiction: getting and using and finding ways and means to get more. Wait until you start Sub. Wait until you wake up in the morning and you're not sick, you're not craving drugs, you're not counting pills and you're not hating yourself for what you're doing. Once you stabilize on Sub and you experience NORMALCY, then you can make a decision about how long you want to stay on it and how and when you want to get off. Don't worry about that today, tomorrow or even 2 weeks from now. You'll make the right decision when you're ready.

Also, I've been off of sub in the past for a week with no withdrawals. And I had a friend who went through a Sub program and said she had NO withdrawals. Maybe I just didn't wait long enough or whatever, but use our two experiences to balance out the horror stories. Dr. J has treated 100's of people with Sub and he says everyone is different.

I, too, was apprehensive about starting Sub, but I think it is really a great medication and we're fortunate to have this option. I wish you didn't have to wait another week of worrying. But you'll get there. I wish you well in your recovery.
Lilly


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 Post subject: A BIG THANK YOU!!!!
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 9:45 am 
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I am really appreciative of the time you guys took to respond to me. I can't thank y ou enough!! Finally I feel at ease about going on suboxone. I am going to see my family doctor today and ask him to prescribe it to me for "pain management" if for whatever reason he won't I will go in and the the sub doctor on May 11th. I'm going to tell my family doctor that I've developed a high tolerance to oxy and feel that suboxone would be the better alternative because of the ceiling effect and see what he says. I know I should just come out and tell him I'm addicted but my thoughts are if I tell him it's for pain management he will be able to prescribe them to me himself and I can avoid going the clinic route. If he says no then I'll just go to the clinic. It would be a real bonus if he says yes and I could start this weekend. If he says he'll prescribe sub to me I will go through withdrawls Saturday and then take my first sub on Sunday - Mother's Day - and I can't think of any greater gift to give my children then a mommy free of oxy addiction :) I really hope the doc says yes. But if not I'll go in May 11th as planned. Again, a big thank you to everyone for sharing their experiences with me and helping me to see that this is really my best approach to getting off oxys.


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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 9:54 am 
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free bird:

I'm so glad this site has been useful for you. That's what we're here for! Not to tell people what they should or shouldn't do, but to share our experiences and offer empathy and support.

It sounds like you're happy and comfortable about your decision. How do you feel? You sound relieved to have made the decision. And I'm so glad for you that you've decided to take this route to achieve addiction remission. In addition to the suboxone, it's usually best to have other recovery "plans" in place. Many of here also go to therapy, some to meetings, and of course this forum is of great support to us. We must learn to deal with the feelings we've been consistently numbing and learn new coping skills to deal with stress other than popping a pill.

Again, I'm very happy for you and glad this forum was available to provide you some support. Best of luck in your induction and please keep us posted.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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