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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:17 pm 
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Any advice, help, ideas, a good kick in the ass would be greatly appreciated.

I've been on suboxone for almost 2 yrs. I hadn't ever abused my medication before. My dose is 2mgs 1X a day. Well the last time I went to my sub dr, I asked her if I could get generic subutex because I lost my health insurance. So she said ok. I don't know what I was thinking but I tried sniffing one and I got high, I actually vomited about 8 hours later. I'm so ashamed. So now I've been sniffing them left and right (figure of speech) and now I'm way low and have to stop. How did this happen? I've made fun of people in the past that sniff subs, you know, like what an idiot, what's the obsession with people wanting to sniff stuff! Now I'm one of them. Please help give me some motivation. If I stop now I can take a 1/2 pill, 1 mg a day, sublingually, and probably have enough but so far I haven't been able to stop. Should I go back to suboxone? but then my dr might ask why, you have insurance now? I can't tell her what I've done, she will boot me off the program. I signed a contract, and one of the promises I made is to not run out of pills early, that's grounds for dismissal.

Thanks guys

Downing


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 Post subject: another thing is.....
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:43 pm 
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The shame and guilt I feel after being clean from H and OC's for so long. I haven't done any illegal drugs since June 25th 2008 when I started on methadone, after a yr on that I switched to subs. I've weaned myself done for 8mgs a day to 2 mgs a day. When I asked my dr about the generic, I didn't have a plan to start sniffing, instead it just happened on a whim. Its like quitting smoking, I want to stop and every time i've done a subutex nasally, I say that's it, I gotta go back to taking it the correct way. For one it doesn't seem to last as long when you abuse the medication.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:55 pm 
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I'm sorry to hear things have taken a turn for the worse with you. First things first, switching back to suboxone won't make a difference. Snorting both of them will have the same effect. (The naloxone in the suboxone is there to prevent shooting it, not insufflation.) You are right that you need to find a way to stop this, and NOW! Can you figure out what was going on that might have precipitated this? Was there extra stress in your life or a trigger or maybe you were having cravings? You're on a pretty low dose, so it's quite possible that you would be having cravings. If it is something like that you need to learn how to deal with these things to prevent it from happening again. But unfortunately, I don't have any easy answers for you that would help you get a handle on things now. I almost want to tell you to be honest with your doctor, but I completely understand your fears of being terminated from the treatment program.

I wish I could be more help or have some words of wisdom for you. I'm sure others will come along and chime in with their perspective. I will say this, remember what active addiction did to you the last time. They say to play the tape through to the end - meaning remember ALL of the negative consequences of using, all the screwed up shit in your life that happened. Use this to help you to put a stop to things before it gets any more out of control than it is already.

I'm glad you posted about this. It's the first step in regaining some control. You CAN do this. We'll support you as much as we can.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:09 pm 
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I think the prohibition against running out early is at least partly to prevent diversion. You may need to tell the doctor (truthfully) that you had the urge to use, and took more sub than prescribed. Maybe she can then raise your dose. Four mg
Per day is usually the minimum maintenance dose and many people have problems below that dose. If you've been compliant with your doc for quite some time, hopefully she will have some compassion and work with you.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:36 am 
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I think you have been given some good advice. I can't really give you motivation. You will have to give that to yourself. You know suboxone is your only real option here so you may want to think about not having this option any longer if you abuse it. I know it's hard.

I wouldn't tell my doctor what I did. I would stretch the sub out to the next appt. Then, if you have someone you can give the subs to so they WATCH you take them, that might be helpful for you. This way you can't snort them. Or maybe you have some kind of routine and you can take it first thing in the morning when you wake up before you start thinking and just pop it under the tongue. Then it's gone and you can't abuse it. Or take it only when you are in the car because you can't snort it there either.

Why don't you ask your doctor if you can switch to films? You can't snort films.

Cherie

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:16 pm 
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Thank you for the great advice. I feel like I'm too old for this addict behavior but then again I know there's people here of all ages. I'm in my 30's and was even thinking not too long ago about getting off of subs. Guess that's not gona happen anytime soon. I did good today.

I am going to give my fiancee my pills and have him give them to me, and the film idea is great. That way there would be no chance of slipping up, that's a great idea! Thanks guys for your support, I really appreciate everyones input who posted.


Oh and yes I was experiencing some extra stress and asked for a new anti depressant, lexapro. Would if the lexapro gave me some sort of drug seeking behavior? I've heard of that with certain meds before. Not sure what meds it was now but am going to look into it.

Downing


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:08 pm 
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I'm in my 40's and still have drug seeking behavior at times, so I guess we can't expect to grow out of it. Many people on this forum are on either lexapro or celexa (essentially the same) and Ive never heard of anyone saying it causes drug cravings. It's probably what you said, outside stress +old addict behavior. Hang in there.


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 Post subject: thank's guys
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:44 pm 
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You all have helped me more than you know, I'm so thankful for this group. I've stopped as of the evening I started this thread. I gave my subutex to my fiancee, told him what I've done, which was hard, and he is now giving me my doses. I have to take 1/2 a pill for the 3 days (1mg), not in a row and then I will have enough to take 2mgs until my dr apt on the 21st of Feb. Thank you all. I needed support and thanks to this forum I got what I needed. You all were there for me and I really appreciate that. What started the cravings could be my low dose or the stress of my business. Not sure exactly.

I was so edgy, mean and opinionated when I was sniffing the subs. But I liked the feeling of nodding off and feeling warm and cozy. I suppose those feelings won't go away because I'm an addict. Does it make sense to still have the addictive behavior?

My goal is to talk to my dr and tell her that I've been craving and maybe go back to 4mgs a day again. That would probably be the best for my long term goals. I will still have my fiancee give me my pills. He has them hidden and he gives me my dose. Of course he knows how many is in the bottle anyway.

Downing

P.S I just wanted to give an update on my current condition


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:53 pm 
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Thanks for the update, downing. It sounds like you've really taken control. I'm glad your fiance is there (and willing) to help you out. I think increasing your dose would probably be a good thing. 4 mg is right around the ceiling and could be enough. Opiate receptors are saturated at that dose, but often they are not STAYING saturated, and if not that causes cravings. You might want to be open to going above 4 if you find you still have cravings at 4 mg. Good luck with the doctor.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:01 pm 
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just to clarify, he knows I was sniffing them so he watches me take my dose. This may sound weird, i don't know, but it felt good to tell him that I screwed up. To get that off my chest. I have always been a guilt ridden person, I have guilt from, for ex. my mom passing away in '96 when i was 20. The guilt is this: when I was 17 yrs old we didn't talk for a whole year, and I'd give anything for the yr I lost with her.

I also feel guilt for other things that aren't as important as that but thats the one that really sticks to me all the time. I know this is kind of off topic but I think about my mom everyday, no kidding, I think how old she'd be, how young she was to die and that she should still be here etc. I also think that in 1996 when she passed, that we didn't have cell phones, we had pagers and all the things that have happened in this world since she's been gone. But I also think on a more positive note sometimes, about how proud she'd be of me for starting my own business working with pets, we both had/ have an extreme soft side when it comes to pets and how they are treated. One thing that helped me quit my heroin use was thinking, "my mom would kick my ass if she were here, and I believe she was watching over me. I was in many situations where I could have lost my life or gone to jail.

To Hat, Jack Crack, Lilval and anyone else i may have forgotten thank you. Hat you've always given me the best of advice. Every thought of getting into counseling or being an addiction therapist. You seem to know exactly what to say and how to say it without being gruff. Thanks sweetie!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:13 pm 
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Hat, do you think my dr knows that 4 mgs is the dose that saturates your opiate receptors? Because the first time I went to her she started me at 2mgs 3X's a day, which seemed low to me compared to my usage but it did work although I was in full detox from methadone, I had weaned down to like 12 mgs (meth)very quickly then went 72 hours with nothing. I was crying, weak, diarrhea, no vomiting but I had a fever and high blood pressure when she saw me. So the instant I took 2 mgs I felt 100%. But when i was on H I was doing 1 gram a day easy sometimes more. And also was up to 90mgs of methadone a day.

Downing


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:21 pm 
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It's hard to say whether or not your doctor is informed about suboxone and the ceiling effect. Take it one thing at a time and just be open with her about wanting to address all of your cravings. Hopefully she understands how sub works. Plus, you could be just fine at 4 mg and not need to go any higher. If it were me, I'd go with the 4 mg for awhile and see if it helps. That way you may not need any more than that.

And if unfortunately she's not well-informed you can always bring her some articles on the ceiling effect and hopefully she will be open to that. But again, one thing at a time. Don't overwhelm yourself. You're doing great!! Keep it up.

(And thank you for the very kind words. This forum has been so good to me and for my recovery. I just want it to be as beneficial to others as it as been for me. Everything I know about sub I learned here.)

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:39 am 
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OY, I'm is the same boat as you. I've been sniffing and plugging my subs. I'm also on 2mg a day at the moment-- I want to ween off but maybe with all of this crap coming to the surface I might not be ready. That makes me really sad. I want to have a kid in a year or two. I want to move on with my life! If I stay on the subs for a long time... it will take longer to get off... I just want this to be over.

I'm in my 30s too. So, I guess we are both "too old" for this.


The only good thing is, though I've been taking the subs in "novel" ways, I have not gone over the dose I was prescribed. In fact, I'm prescribed 8mg a day... but I only take 2 since... as I said... I want to quit. I'm staying under the required dose.

But part of me still wants to get high, so I take my little 2mg allowance (that I set out for myself each week) and try to make the most of it. I feel really desperate... and snorting and plugging don't always really *do* anything. it doesn't make me high, it's like some sad pot head smoking banana peels. My actions are so contradictory. On the one had I'm very strict about how much I can have... on the other I've done everything I can to make what I do take strong... I would probably shoot up if my research on the matter had not shown that shooting was downright dangerous. (And that's saying a lot, I have never done H, or shot anything ever, I don't even know where to get needles or how to use them...but for a moment I was totally willing to do that with the subs... until I realized it would make me sick and hurt my veins.)

At least I don't have any urge to take pain pills or poppy tea, it's just my relationship with the subs that is dysfunctional.

I have decided to stop beating myself up about this for now. As long as I stay in the dose range of 2mg, and keep going to group and doing the things that I've planned to get better... No more poppies no more pills...I'm just not going to worry about this that much and hope that, since it's not really increasing the impact of the drug much, soon I'll be able to let go of this little crutch.

I threw away all of my poppies and my grinder, my pills, my home made poppy wine EVERYTHING, I don't miss doing those drugs but I miss having them, I had so much fun mixing things and making all kinds of experiments to see how this or that would make me feel. I loved having a stash filled with "fun" things that I could go to when I wanted. The stash is gone and now and then that bugs me.

And I'm just doing the same thing with the subs, mixing and playing, it's comforting. And now that I think on it I'm totally hoarding them. It needs to stop. Maybe we can check in with each other on this? What do you think?

I think I'll get the strips too-- that will stop the snorting...but not the plugging. Plugging is so gross. I never thought I'd ever... Damn. Drugs are MESSED UP.

BEST.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:43 am 
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OY, I'm is the same boat as you. I've been sniffing and plugging my subs. I'm also on 2mg a day at the moment-- I want to ween off but maybe with all of this crap coming to the surface I might not be ready. That makes me really sad. I want to have a kid in a year or two. I want to move on with my life! If I stay on the subs for a long time... it will take longer to get off... I just want this to be over.

I'm in my 30s too. So, I guess we are both "too old" for this.


The only good thing is, though I've been taking the subs in "novel" ways, I have not gone over the dose I was prescribed. In fact, I'm prescribed 8mg a day... but I only take 2 since... as I said... I want to quit. I'm staying under the required dose.

But part of me still wants to get high, so I take my little 2mg allowance (that I set out for myself each week) and try to make the most of it. I feel really desperate... and snorting and plugging don't always really *do* anything. it doesn't make me high, it's like some sad pot head smoking banana peels. My actions are so contradictory. On the one had I'm very strict about how much I can have... on the other I've done everything I can to make what I do take strong... I would probably shoot up if my research on the matter had not shown that shooting was downright dangerous. (And that's saying a lot, I have never done H, or shot anything ever, I don't even know where to get needles or how to use them...but for a moment I was totally willing to do that with the subs... until I realized it would make me sick and hurt my veins.)

At least I don't have any urge to take pain pills or poppy tea, it's just my relationship with the subs that is dysfunctional.

I have decided to stop beating myself up about this for now. As long as I stay in the dose range of 2mg, and keep going to group and doing the things that I've planned to get better... No more poppies no more pills...I'm just not going to worry about this that much and hope that, since it's not really increasing the impact of the drug much, soon I'll be able to let go of this little crutch.

I threw away all of my poppies and my grinder, my pills, my home made poppy wine EVERYTHING, I don't miss doing those drugs but I miss having them, I had so much fun mixing things and making all kinds of experiments to see how this or that would make me feel. I loved having a stash filled with "fun" things that I could go to when I wanted. The stash is gone and now and then that bugs me.

And I'm just doing the same thing with the subs, mixing and playing, it's comforting. And now that I think on it I'm totally hoarding them. It needs to stop. Maybe we can check in with each other on this? What do you think?

I think I'll get the strips too-- that will stop the snorting...but not the plugging. Plugging is so gross. I never thought I'd ever... Damn. Drugs are MESSED UP.

BEST.


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 Post subject: Dont Beat Yourself Up
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:45 am 
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Dont be too hard on yourself, relapses are gonna happen there all part of the process but yes get back onto the Suboxone and quickly, just tell the doc something about it making you dizzy or even go the route of saying you feel like your tempting the devil by having the Subutex instead of the Suboxone, the only problem is then u invite her in to be suspicious of you already relapsing so if you can go the route of the medication just not making you feel right or u just dont think it is working as well for you as the Suboxone did try that first so she doesnt get suspicious and you dont get yourself invited in for a pill count appointment!

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:32 am 
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:wink: Just to Reassure you... 'OLD' people out there... I am nearly 51. Keep up the great work. Peace.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:33 pm 
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strange... not sure I would encourage anyone to continue drug addiction behavior by LYING to Md. Isnt this why you take sub? To stop the lying, cheating and drug addiction behavior? How are you suppose to learn not to continue this behavior?

This is the problem I see with suboxone.... it really didnt change much but keep me out of wd. I was still the addict and life lived around just another drug. To Stop adting like a addict means change. This change is easy but so nessa in my book. I have to admit I didnt change that much either. Did learn the gift of honesty but even that took work. Now we are encouraging another addict to lie?


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 Post subject: hmm..
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:53 pm 
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I thought this forum was to help other people, not criticize someone elses opinion on what someone should do. Everyone has their own opinion and not everyones is gonna be the same. The purpose of this forum is to help other people and give your thoughts and advice, not pick apart someone elses advice and tell them they're wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: hmm..
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:31 pm 
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sodone wrote:
I thought this forum was to help other people, not criticize someone elses opinion on what someone should do. Everyone has their own opinion and not everyones is gonna be the same. The purpose of this forum is to help other people and give your thoughts and advice, not pick apart someone elses advice and tell them they're wrong.


Hi Sodone, I do agree with your above post to an extent. We should be respectful of others opinions but people are going to disagree about what advice a person is given. Also it is impossible to include the tone in which a post was meant, so sometimes posts come off harsher than intended and for that reason I think it is important to give the author the benefit of the doubt and assume they meant no harm. To me your post below is not any different than the post you are commenting above. I am not bringing this to your attention to be knit picky but to point out that I am sure you meant no harm or offense to Lillyval.

Sodone wrote: "I didnt like this advice.. IMO You SHOULD tell your OB right away. If anything happened to the baby from the relapse its better to know now, Also your OB should know all your history so if anything goes wrong they will know what to do."

The above was posted by you yesterday in response to Lillyval's post. I hope you are finding support in our community. I have noticed a few posts from you but don't recall an introduction, although I may have missed it. I look forward to getting to know you better should you decide to share.


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