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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:49 am 
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I'm Andrew, 24 years old, been on sub for 5 months now (this is my second time on sub, my previous experience was of a similar length of time about a year and a half ago).

I like electronic music, parties, the circus (juggling and unicycle enthusiast!), and most importantly meeting nice people in life. Oh, and I work at a high school as a caretaker in London.

I took 4mg a day for the first 4 months, and over the past month have staggered my dose down to 0.4mg three times a day and I am not quite stable but with the help of some Zopiclone and time off work I am managing to cope. I exercise a lot and my job is quite physically demanding (lots of walking) so hopefully this will work in my favour when trying to recover my natural brain back!

I look forward to hearing your experiences and sharing ideas and positivity with you all - I know it can be difficult to be positive all the time (that's probably why many of us turn to substances like opiates in the first place) but I really do believe it is the best attitude to take - so let's blast negativity away with our beautiful human spirit and get better one day at a time together. [/color]

Peace and love, strength and unity to everyone!

Xx


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:31 am 
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Welcome here Andrew. Congratulations on getting your sub dose down. That's really awesome! Are you planning on reducing lower, or just going to continue with the subs a while yet? If tapering further what is your plan? You sound really committed and that's exactly what it takes.

I was on a high dose of 24mgs for about 3 years and reduced to 2mgs a day and tried to jump from there several times. That didn't turn out well and now I have a plan to taper my dose and just today I got to 1.25mg total per day after several reductions. I usually stay at each dose for about a week and reduce again. It's not too bad and I try to remain positive at all times.

I just wanted to welcome you and let you know how awesome this site is. Really cool members that have a world of knowledge about addiction and subs. Everyone wants to help and I'm sure you will find out soon.

Take care and keep us posted of your progress.

Karen xoxo


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:54 am 
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Lovely to meet you Karen, thanks for being the first to offer me friendship, it really means a lot to me.

I am smiling to read your progress, because going from 25mg to 1.25mg is such an incredible achievement - that really shows you have amazing willpower and strength! I feel as though my progress pales in comparrison, but ultimately we are all experiencing the same changes and feelings in our minds and bodies, and since we are all heading towards the same goal I feel an overwhelming sense of victory for you! Funnily enough, I think we are both on the same dose now! Well, you are on 1.25mg a day and I am on 1.2mg a day (so pretty much the same!).

I really don't have a plan on what to do next, my tapering has been sporadic and disorganised, it has worked so far, but I know that I will need to take it slow and consistently from now to make it as manageable as possible. My goal is to be at 0, yes, as I don't think maintenance is the right path for me - I am too impatient, and without going in to too much detail, I can't deal with the complete lack of sex drive and natural emotion anymore - I feel like I am present in social situations but not really able to fully relate to everyone else because I can't feel like they can.

I think I will try your plan, and reduce .2mg every week. And I can't imagine jumping from 2mg, that would be utter hell I think. When I last stopped the subs I jumped from 0.8mg and that was very intense and I honestly can't tell you how I managed it, but obviously it wasn't too successful as I went back on opiates a month and a half later. This time I know it has to be done more slowly and it will work out in the end. Unfortunately my doctor won't prescribe me any benzos or clonidine - which I have heard are life savers during the worst part of the withdrawal, but I do have zopiclone and mirtazapine so I'm hoping they will get me out of trouble with insomnia, which I found was the worst part of withdrawing last time.

Love and blessings! Xx


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:26 pm 
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Welcome Sub Off! I like your attitude towards recovery. It is very similar with mine. We have lots of threads about tapering and stopping Suboxone so feel free to browse the archives for info.

Too bad you couldn't stay off it the last time. What was the deciding factor in making the decision to go back on it? I've read that PAWS can last a very long time for some people. What you will hear is that everyone is different on how they tolerate Suboxone. We have members here who had very little discomfort when they stopped, and then others who seem like it never goes away.

You have the right attitude though for stopping it. I guess I'll have to say you need to live up to your user name!

Welcome to the forum. This is a great place.

r62

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:46 am 
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Thanks for the warm welcome rule62, great to meet you and thanks for the compliment on my approach. I decided to go back on it because I was using alcohol to overcome PAWs anxiety and depression and of course, the alcohol just made everything far worse, so I started using again to allow me to function. The usual vicious circle stuff. This time however I know that I need to stay off everything until I am stable and of course the opiates can never be touched again, as there is no way one can use them responsibly after becomming an addict - I never truely believed this until now!

I have taken an impulsive step and have gone cold turkey purely because I don't have time on my side and I need to be through the worst of the withdrawals by the time September comes. Well I'm less than 48 hours into it and on top of it all I have given up caffeine as well (as I realised it was adding to anxiety and for me, it was another addiction).

I know I can do this, it will be a very difficult couple of weeks but I am keeping positive like I said I would, and tbh I am happy I have made the firm decision to quit now, rather than remain on the sub for another couple of months. No doubt you will be hearing a lot more from me, as I update you all daily on this cold turkey from 1.2mg - EEK!

LOVE to you all Xx


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:25 pm 
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I am just settling down after coming back from a bike ride - the fact that I can still get somewhat comfortable is an unfortunate sign that there is still a fair amount of bupe left on me. However, I can't tell you how inspiring it felt to exercise - I will cycle for as long as I can each day, hopefully half an hour. I'm making a home-made smoothie as well as eating a big salad (trying to get as much nutrients and vitamins as I can before I lose my appetite) - then a warm-hot bath, before popping a Zopiclone and settling down to watch some distracting junk, and maybe put an incense on.

Appologies for my poor syntax, as you can imagine it's not top of the agenda at the moment!

More Power to You All! Xx


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:39 pm 
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Hey Sub-off,

You are most welcome here...I love seeing people with a good attitude about tapering and living free of subs. And, anyone who loves the circus is an automatic candidate for friendship IMO! :mrgreen:

Your story sounds all too familiar. I recently tapered down to .25mg and then couldn't bring myself to make the jump...I'm back up to about 1mg per day. Hoping to continue the taper soon.

Welcome, and good luck with your jump! Staying positive is the key!

Q

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:56 pm 
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Hey, Q girl, thanks for the warm welcome!

I really admire your strength to keep it all together throughout your tapering - I would have cracked if I had tried to go any lower I think - I am just such an impatient person and all the more in difficult situations because of it. I am quite stubborn person really, so once I realised I hate myself on sub, jumping and flushing my prescription down the toilet is the only way I can see for myself. I WILL DO THIS! (/sorry, mood swings are starting to kick in - as if they're not bad enough for me at stable times!)

Best of luck with it all and please keep me updated on your progress - I find strength in people and use it in myself - I think we're all from the same origin and going to the same place, so sincerely believe your experience and strength can teach me! Viva la circus!

Love and blessings! Xx


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:16 pm 
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Well it has been just over 50 hours since I jumped off the suboxone train travelling at 1.2mg/pd :P

It's obviously unpleasent from time to time, but I'm starting (already!) to get a sense of myself back and feeling a full spectrum of emotions again! Granted, I have absolutely no hold over them; they just seem to come crashing in every so often, only to be replaced by the bland apathy of bupe that I have come to dispise. But people, there really are so many positives to the withdrawal process, and I feel it is my duty to point out all the great positives that you will experience while detoxing - it is not just doom and gloom like so many threads would have you believe. So yeah, emotions - feeling human, GREAT! .

More power to ya! Xx


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:37 pm 
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Wow Sub Off!!! When you first got here you mentioned perhaps following my plan and reducing further. Now I see you bit the bullet and decided to jump from where you were. I have no doubt that your up for the challenge.

You sure have the positive attitaude it takes to be successful! Good for you and I wish you continued success. One day at a time I guess is what you have to do. Congrats on making it to the 50+ hour mark. That is so cool and you provide a huge inspiration for me to want to get off the sub even more!

I'm going to stick with my taper, but I have no doubt I will be joining you soon and adding up the clean hours and days too! You should be very proud of yourself Sub Off!!!! :D

Karen xoxo


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:28 pm 
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I'm glad to see that you are feeling pretty good dude. I totally get why you would decide to not taper further and just make the jump. Tapering is a long, tedious process, and at some point you just get sick of it and want to end it. Jumping when you get there, if you want it bad enough, is a good option.

Keep up the good work! When I see posts like this I'm reminded of something another member has posted several times in the past. I'm sorry I don't remember his name, but he has an acronym I like alot. PMA - Positive Mental Attitude. I like it, and I think of it often.

PMA!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:39 am 
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Heya, thanks for the kind words, they are just what are needed right now! Well, I must say that is exactly the reason I decided to just jump off Q; I was feeling mild withdrawals while tapering and clearly did not have the patience to do it slow enough for discomfort to be minimal - that is why I said I have so much respect for all you taperers - it really is the best way to do it, for your body's sake and your mind's sake.

Having said that, I'm so glad I've jumped - I'm gonna hit the 72 hour mark today and then will know how bad the withdrawals will be, but I know that within a week I will be far past the worst of the acutes and the real adjustment can begin. It's funny, our bodies know exactly what to do - how many chemical reactions take place in us everyday, every 10 seconds even? It's a strange thought, but when you look at yourself like that you realise that withdrawal is just your body's way of saying - hey, you tricked me! you gave me these drugs to metabolise day after day after month after month and now you are denying me them? So of course it is going to hurt, but this is what our bodies do, they always strive towards an equilibrium and within a few weeks mine (and yours!) will have settled on one without the need for opiate analgesics!

I've also had a thought as to why exercise is so so sooooo important during this time - the extra energy your body has now that it does not have to constantly metabolise and break down bupe needs to be expelled otherwise you will just lie around with the energy literally pulsating through you - and I think that is why so many people are at their wits end with the RLS, etc. Make yourself exercise even if you do feel like death!

Peace and love Xx


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:15 am 
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Ok, I wasn't expecting this, but in the last few hours it has really got a lot worse :( I feel like I can't cope all of a sudden, like there is just no "feel good" chemical in my brain. Also can't get comfortable at all, yet I know it's probably gonna get worse over the next 72 hours as I'm only at the half-life now! I can't even think about how the night times are gonna be from now on.....
Still, PMA, right?!

Love Xx


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:19 am 
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I can't believe I'm here for the second time! I told myself never, ever ever again! Well, at the risk of sounding unbelievable, it really is the last time for me now. I dispise this drug, and all addicting drugs for that matter, with all my weak and broken heart!!!!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:41 am 
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Hang in there Sub Off! Instead of projecting how bad the withdrawals may be in another day or so, turn it around with the very positive attitude you have and think to yourself that they may actually not be that bad. Go back and read your post about jumping and how positive you sounded in the very begining of this thread. Get your head thinking those positive thoughts and hopefully it will get you past this current feeling.

Like my friend Horsegal says......PMA!!!!

Hang tuff....you CAN do this!!!! :)

Karen xoxo


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:31 am 
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Hey Sub-off,

Sorry to be crass, but the only thing I can say is...shit's getting real now isn't it?

It is totally normal to have these up and down feelings right now. Our emotions tend to run a little crazy during wd, especially once we start feeling like death. Night's are absolutely the worst, but it does get better. You were right when you said if you can just hang on long enough things will start to look up. You have to find something that will distract you from these feelings of dread. And I like what Karen said, not dwelling on what tomorrow will be like is going to help you. Focus on getting through today and let tomorrow come and take care of itself. Focusing one day at a time, and even one hour at a time is helpful. Can you make it through the next hour?

You can do it man...just stay strong. We are here for you if you need to vent.

Q

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:50 am 
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Thanks so much you two, I can't really talk to anyone else as non of my friends or family have ever been through this.. I don't go to NA or anything so have no addict friends - I think on the whole that's a good thing for me but I sure as hell wish I knew one now and could get a hug and a pat on the shoulder - virtual ones are sure something better than nothing so I really am grateful you are both replying.

Well I try and go out and exercise and do things but time drags on so slowly, and I have no energy, despite being restless and I just want to be back in doors wrapped up in a blanket, but as soon as I am I want to be out of the house etc. etc. etc. --- you know it all, of course.

Not much going to be achieved here but venting does give me something to do, thank you so much again for caring and reading and responding!!

p.s. shit is very real. I feel like an idiot for thinking I could "think withdrawal away" - who am I kidding this is hell on earth and nothing will ever change that apart from abstinence and lots of time. :(

Peace Xx


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:54 am 
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I hope you are doing okay. I know how painful withdraw can be. Just try to hold on to the memory so that you can stay off drugs forever. I do think it will help you do get some Clonidine to help with blood pressure. You can get this from your doctor and it will help know down the withdraws a notch. I really do feel for you. Get better soon!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:29 pm 
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Thanks raudy, it's nice to know you feel me on this!

I am mentally, OK - it's just the physical discomfort I am struggling with, and it is getting worse, not better (I'm not even at the end of my 3rd day yet!)... what a wuss eh?

I've just found a 0.4mg subutex that I thought I had disposed of, but it is just the one (honest!) - So I am debating with myself whether taking some of it (maybe all of it eventually) will be helpful in my situation and offer me some relief without resetting the clock on the withdrawal? I don't want to take it, I have no craving to take it but it is crossing my mind whether it would be a HELP or a Hinderance to take it? What are your opinions? Anyone?

Edit: I asked my doctor for clonodine and small amount of diazepam and fully explained I knew the dangers of taking it with sub and that I would only use it when fully in withdrawals - but she is overly cautious and outright declined to give me either. I did say that clonodine is a blood pressure med and made sure she knew I wasn't asking for clonopin (benzo) but she still sent me on my way with just some Zopiclone (of which I have 4 x 7.5mg left) - ironic really, as zopiclone is dangerous in its own right.

I don't have the energy to fight her on this one... :(


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:41 pm 
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Yes! I second the suggestion of clonodine if you can get it. I finally tried it and it helped alot with the anxious/restless feeling, and the hot/cold flashes. Also, helps with the sleep issues. The only problem is, it might exaggerate the general fatigue feeling. That's one of the hardest parts of WD when you are trying to function during the day, well, that and that "I have just been run over by a mack truck" feeling.

Big Cyber Hug to you my friend! ( :D )

Q

Oh, I just saw your post about the found subutex. I don't know what to tell you there. I have seen people who have tried skipping days before making a final jump. It will probably extend your totall WD time a bit, but I can totally see why you might feel the need to ease the pain a bit. It's up to you. There is no right or wrong way to do this, as long as you come out sober on the other side of it. Maybe you should save it for a day when you might have something to do when you have to be on your "A game"...or save it just in case you feel the fear of relapsing. It would be far better to take a tiny dose of subutex than go back to real opiates. Whatever you decide is ok, but damn...wouldn't it feel good if you were able to save it "just in case" and never actually take it? You are doing great! Honestly, if I was in the throes of WD and found one laying around I would have popped that joker and talked about it later! LOL... :lol:

Strength in the midst of temptation has never been my strong suit!

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