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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 6:45 am 
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Hello, I've seen this site off and on for the past couple weeks and have finally decided to reach out for help. I'm a young male, 21 not very healthy because of my drug use and heavy smoking (cigarettes) Anyways, I was recently seeing a doctor and was perscribed 8 mg of suboxone and was taking it properly and clean for 6 months. After about 3 months I gradually reduced my dose down to 4 mg. Unfortunately things took a turn for the worst, I had been working a new job for about 6 months and had saved up some money and was doing very well. I became over confident and at the wrong place at the wrong time I was very vulnerable and ended up relapsing with an old friend on Heroin. Now, it's been roughly 5 months and i'm using about 3-4 grams of H a day. I really need some help and guidance about starting suboxone again and staying on it. Most importantly though, I can't seem to take the suboxone and have it relieve my W/D symptoms. I usually wait about 12-18 hours when I feel moderate withdrawls and have seen the COWS sheet and all that. I just don't have enough willpower to wait a full 24 or 36 hours. Can someone please help me and give me some advice on how I can induct and stabilize on the Suboxone. I want my old life back.. Thanks and god bless. -Michael


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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:04 am 
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mikeystar wrote:
Hello, I've seen this site off and on for the past couple weeks and have finally decided to reach out for help. I'm a young male, 21 not very healthy because of my drug use and heavy smoking (cigarettes) Anyways, I was recently seeing a doctor and was perscribed 8 mg of suboxone and was taking it properly and clean for 6 months. After about 3 months I gradually reduced my dose down to 4 mg. Unfortunately things took a turn for the worst, I had been working a new job for about 6 months and had saved up some money and was doing very well. I became over confident and at the wrong place at the wrong time I was very vulnerable and ended up relapsing with an old friend on Heroin. Now, it's been roughly 5 months and i'm using about 3-4 grams of H a day. I really need some help and guidance about starting suboxone again and staying on it. Most importantly though, I can't seem to take the suboxone and have it relieve my W/D symptoms. I usually wait about 12-18 hours when I feel moderate withdrawls and have seen the COWS sheet and all that. I just don't have enough willpower to wait a full 24 or 36 hours. Can someone please help me and give me some advice on how I can induct and stabilize on the Suboxone. I want my old life back.. Thanks and god bless. -Michael


Hi, and welcome...thanks for joining us here. There's a great group of people around to help you out, but the main thing is that you need to decide that you HAVE to do this for yourself. There's nothing we can tell you here that you probably don't already know, the biggest thing is that you have GOT to do this for yourself. We can show you the right way to do it, but you have to legitimately find a doctor, and follow the doctors treatment instructions.
I'm not sure because you didn't say..but you can't just go to a doctor for a month or two and expect to suddenly be able to stop on your own...you have to spend a bit of time in a treatment program and get used to dealing with the triggers that arise.

You have to ask yourself "how bad do I want this?" and not only do you answer that, but prove it. Start by finding yourself a doctor and getting into a program -- don't try buying a few subs on the street and thinking you can take them for a day or two and be done with it all...

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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:14 am 
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mikeystar wrote:
Hello, I've seen this site off and on for the past couple weeks and have finally decided to reach out for help. I'm a young male, 21 not very healthy because of my drug use and heavy smoking (cigarettes) Anyways, I was recently seeing a doctor and was perscribed 8 mg of suboxone and was taking it properly and clean for 6 months. After about 3 months I gradually reduced my dose down to 4 mg. Unfortunately things took a turn for the worst, I had been working a new job for about 6 months and had saved up some money and was doing very well. I became over confident and at the wrong place at the wrong time I was very vulnerable and ended up relapsing with an old friend on Heroin. Now, it's been roughly 5 months and i'm using about 3-4 grams of H a day. I really need some help and guidance about starting suboxone again and staying on it. Most importantly though, I can't seem to take the suboxone and have it relieve my W/D symptoms. I usually wait about 12-18 hours when I feel moderate withdrawls and have seen the COWS sheet and all that. I just don't have enough willpower to wait a full 24 or 36 hours. Can someone please help me and give me some advice on how I can induct and stabilize on the Suboxone. I want my old life back.. Thanks and god bless. -Michael








Hi Mikeystar and welcome to the forum!

Sorry to hear about your relapse and the trouble you are having now. I know how hard it is to go without something for 24-36 hours...seems like an eternity! You said your are 21 and you have that going for you. You might want to look at it like you have your whole life ahead of you and how do you want to spend it...I was addicted to hydros for 29 years..I am old enough to be your grandmother...but when I was your age..I wish someone had talked some sense into me and spared me from all those years of addiction and misery...Think of it like this...you are on a merry -go- round...and want to get off. If I had to lock myself in a room without a phone for 23-36hrs. I would, just to get back on sub...remembe how it made you feel...normal...good...safe..now you are just chasing the high of drugs and are miserable because of it. I think that is because you have had a taste of sub. Think about the future...where you will be in 10 years..time goes by fast..do you really want to still be doing h ten years down the road...if you live that long....Maybe you could get someone to stay with you and talk to you and help you through this waiting period..I would try anything and everything to get back on the sub, because it is such a better life than opiates.

Whatever you decide please keep us informed of your progress, we would like to hear from you.
Sincerely,
Slipper

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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:15 am 
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I have a perscription for the subs and take them as directed I just need some help on how to induct.. My doctor told me waiting 12 hours would be fine so I took them and went into precip w/d. I'm definetly ready to get clean and was on the right path before, attending counseling sessions, NA meetings and such. I'm going to continue my treatment plan with my dr once I get stabilized on the subs again.


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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:20 am 
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Thanks slipper, I really appreciate your advice and support/time. That's amazing you're clean after using for so long.. Yes I may need to go stay with a friend or family member to get threw this tough time.. I guess I'm just scared to be honest.. When it comes to w/d's I'm very emotional and weak.. I feel more so than others. What would you suggest I do in terms of keeping myself busy and getting the most relief while waiting those first agonizing 24-36 hours? Any help is really appreciated.. Thanks again.


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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:25 am 
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As I stated above I was on suboxone (with a dr, following instructions/treatment plan) for 6 months. Had reduced down to 4 mg after about 3 months and was stabilized and he wanted me to wait a bit longer before trying to taper even further. Just because of personal reasons/things that were occuring in my life. I have now gone back and seen my dr and told him what has happened. He knows as me and him communicate regularly. I'm just seeking some answers on people who have had simliar situations to mine on how they dealt with it and have overcome the disease of addicton/relapse. Thanks.. you're help/time is appreciated..


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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 8:32 am 
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Hello and welcome. It's unfortunate that your doctor told you to wait 12 hours, because it's not a matter of waiting HOW long before inducing, but rather, HOW BAD the withdrawals are, to avoid P/W. If you have the COWS scale, use that to guide you to get you into mild-to-moderate withdrawals before inducing again. If you were at the mild level before and it still didn't work, then go to the moderate level this time. Twelve hours just isn't a good guideline to give someone. You're much better off using the COWS scale and judging the DEGREE of your w/d rather than how long you've been having them.

I hope this helps. Good luck and do please keep us posted.

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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 10:45 am 
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mikeystar wrote:
Thanks slipper, I really appreciate your advice and support/time. That's amazing you're clean after using for so long.. Yes I may need to go stay with a friend or family member to get threw this tough time.. I guess I'm just scared to be honest.. When it comes to w/d's I'm very emotional and weak.. I feel more so than others. What would you suggest I do in terms of keeping myself busy and getting the most relief while waiting those first agonizing 24-36 hours? Any help is really appreciated.. Thanks again.







Dear mikeystar,

I know you are scared..so was I...and an absolute baby when it comes to withdrawal..very weak as well..but that doesn't mean you can't do it..

I think first..I would get somebody who I could trust and talk to to be with me during that time...a friend or family member with the tough love you need. Also, I would not just sit around waiting for the withdrawals to hit and worrying yourself sick about them. I would do stuff as I felt like it and push myself to do it..like getting up and going somewhere with your friend..exercising...just doing stuff..and when the diarrhea hits..take some immodium..when the nausea hits take some tagamet..be ready with these otc drugs to help you get through it...If you have something for sleep take it..

If you are up and making yourself do things the day will go by faster and you will be ready for your induction in no time.

Also all the time you are feeling bad in withdrawal just know that soon you will have relief from the sub...you will not have to score some h...and that will be money well saved.
Also I would stay on a dose of sub higher than 4mg. for a good while..at least 8mg. to be sure and ward off any cravings you might have...You do no need to be trying to reduce down when you first start back..just the opposite..you want your receptors full and you need to feel normal again so you can work on yourself and your addiction behavior...Remember I have been on subutex 2 years from 8=16mg. and have never had cravings for my doc, never relapsed or even thought about my pain pills..it is a freedom I never thought I would have. When you get down to lower doses sometimes your receptors do not remain full and then the sub acts like a pain pill and you will have cravings...just don't let that happen this time.

These are some things I would try...how long is 36hrs in the whole spectrum of things??.. not that long..you can so this..
so go for it..

Thanks...
Slipper

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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 11:13 am 
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Hello M,

When you did the first induction over 6 months ago how did it go? Any ideas on what is different this time as opposed to the first induction? Are the amounts of anything different now?

S


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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 11:40 am 
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Hi and welcome to the forum. Maybe it will be a bit easier this time, since you already have your subs in hand, and don't have to be in withdrawals in the doctor's office. You can take the first one at home where you are more comfortable and don't have to deal with people and sitting in a waiting room while you aren't feeling good!

As slipper suggested, OTC sleep meds would probably help a great deal. Maybe taking those would help you sleep through half, or at least some of the withdrawal. I took a Unisom the night before my induction to help me sleep (I buy the generic because it's the same drug, but half the price). Or you could try Benadryl. A lot of people already have this in their medicine cabinet for allergies, but it is often taken for sleep as well. I've even seen Dr. Junig suggest Benadryl as a sleep aid.


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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 3:35 pm 
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Hey Mikey,

Congratulations on reaching out for help, I know it's hard to do sometimes.

You said, "I usually wait about 12-18 hours when I feel moderate withdrawls and have seen the COWS sheet and all that" and your story immediately reminded me of a few members who have come through here who were on H and kinda did the same thing you did. They relapsed and had a hard time getting back on Suboxone. I don't know what it is about H that sometimes makes the second attempt at getting on Suboxone harder, other than the fact that you really don't know exactly what's in that shit from one hit to another.

Anyway, it sounds like your question is how to get far enough into wd so you can induce again. Understandably, you don't wanna suffer, but you already know you are going to have to endure some pain to get there. I would suggest you talk to your doctor about Clonidine. It's a blood pressure medication that's prescribed off label for opiate wd. It'll ease your symptoms and help calm you. You may ask your doctor about getting a Xanax or two as well. The Xanax are a STRONG benzodiazepine (you do NOT want to get hooked on those, they're even harder to quit than opiates), but they will give you relief from you wd symptoms. You can always take some Imodium AD to keep your "bathroom issues" to a minimum during this time and Advil WILL help with the aches and pains.

To the best of my knowledge, none of the meds I listed above will interfere with your induction, they'll just make it easier to get there.

Good luck.

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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 3:29 pm 
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Thank you guys.. i really appreciate it. i sitll havent tried to induct yet as i've been reluctant and still preparing.. ( i know it sucks ) but have asked my dr about clonidine and he wrote me a script for a few.. I know hes gonna be unwilling to perscribe me xanax or a benzo though, as I'm an addict. And the last time I inducted I wasnt on as big of a habit.. only doing a small amount and I had forced myself to go up to my aunts house 60 miles away in the boonies. Unfortunately that option is no longer available and i'm stuck here at my house in the center of dope city. I remember inducting back 2-3 years ago when I had first started abusing opiods.. I had been on oxycontin roughly 80 mg for about 6 months, waited 18 hours took the sub and was totally fine! why can't it be like that this time.. thans for your guys input and i really hope i can attempt to do this soon.. my life drastically depends on it..


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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 4:16 pm 
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Hey Mikey,

It seems like you have gotten some really good advice here. I understand that it is a really hard thing to make the decision to give up your DOC. The withdrawals suck! It is a miserable time for all of us going through it...and thinking about it beforehand is almost as bad as actually doing it. All that being said, I am wondering what you are waiting for. You mentioned before that you think you are very emotional and weak. I hate to say this Mikey but you aren't going through anything any of us haven't been through. As addicts we tend to believe that we are facing something bigger and badder and worse than anyone else has ever faced...it's just not true. You can do this!!! There are alot of people right here who have been through exactly what you are going through and have come out the other side just fine. Some of us are still taking suboxone doing well, some have relapsed and had to go back through it again, some have even been able to quit the subs and live completely opiate free. The common denominator with all of these stories is we all had to start right where you are now. By making the decision to walk away from what makes us "comfortable" and choose to go through the withdrawal so we can start our new lives. You have done this before. You know that waiting for tomorrow or the next day or next week or even when you use up the rest of your stash isn't going to make it any easier. You can talk yourself into waiting another day for the rest of your life. Just start NOW. Get rid of whatever you have left and push yourself through it. If you get 10 hours in and want to quit just tell yourself that you don't want to waste that 10 hours. What's the use of having to go through this again? Your comfort doesn't lie in getting high, it lies in that suboxone at the end of your withdrawal. This can be the last time you ever have to go through this! That is what I had to tell myself. I knew the whole time I was withdrawing (and I made it through 36 hours) I kept telling myself that I would never have to go through this again. I had the longest night of my life...but I made it through. And like someone said earlier, at least you won't then have to drag your ass to a doctor's office and sit in the waiting room for an hour before you get your subs.

You can do it Mikey...Just bite the bullet and do it. Don't wait till tomorrow. There is no time like the present after all. Especially when you are dealing with heroin, your next hit could be your last man, I would hate to see that happen to anyone when you already have the answer right there. Please let us know how you do.


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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 11:20 pm 
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alright. thank you guys so much again. i'm going to get my clonodine and immodium ready. and i'm going to ask my doctor for a week supply of seroquil because i've been doing research and that and trazadone are compatiable with suboxone. I'm hoping I can start tomorrow or the next day, I'm going to call my dr first thing tomorrow and see if he will just phone me in a perscription as he knows what i've been going threw, I just visited him this last weds and gave him the whole spiel. i've been tapering a little bit as much as I can lately as well.. I'm down to about 2-3 bags a day instead of 4-5 thank you guys again and ill keep u posted


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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 1:34 am 
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wow i just realized something that you said that really stuck out to me.. that my comfort doesn't rely in me getting high but me taking suboxone and waiting for it.. thats how i used to thin whenever i kicked before and somehow i forgot that.. eventually i will feel fine as long as i do it right and stick with it.. i really hope i can do this. i tried 2 weeks ago and failed miserably.. I had prepared myself got rid of everything and bam, woke up the next morning and first thing that came to my head was omg wheres all my stuff and what am i going to do? i got rid of everything. because i'm the type of person that wakes up in the morning super groggy (even when clean) and cold and in pain until i fully wake up and shower and eat. so heroin was perfect for that cuz i could rush to the bathroom put my arm under some hot water and cook up a shot as i would wake up and get ready. and then after i did that i would be awake and ready to go. so when i wake up i freak out cuz it's apart of my morning routine.. what do you think would help with this? i need to just get past that morning agony and i believe i will really have a shot at going the rest of the day and make it to the night to sleep somewhat and then induct the next morning as it will have been 24-36 hours. I figure that is enough time for me as i roughly start to go into w/d's about 12 hours after my last use and at about 18 they start getting worse.. i dunno what 24 is like yet cuz it's been so long but i would imagine by 24 they're starting to get pretty damn bad and after that they just continue to get worse and worse (you know that feeling) anyways wish me luck.. i really hope i can do this. bye


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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 11:16 am 
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mikey -

A good way to change a habit, especially one that goes on in your home is to change your environment around. I'd suggest moving around the furniture in your entire home. Make as many changes as you can so it looks as different as possible. You will have triggers in that same old environment. What you want to do is remove those triggers.

Good luck!

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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 12:02 pm 
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Good for you Mikey!

I know all about that first thing in the morning craving...it used to be the first thing I would do too. Go to my purse and pour out a handful of pills to get me going in the morning. I don't know what will make that first day any easier...it was really hard for me too. But I can tell you that one of the things that surprised me the most after taking suboxone was the first morning I woke up I didn't feel the need to use right away. It used to be the first thing I would think about when I woke up in the morning, before I even got out of bed I was thinking about grabbing my first dose. Heck, even before I went to bed at night, if my husband was going to be home the next morning I would be sure to hide my morning stash somewhere I would be able to get to it without him seeing me. It was ALWAYS on my mind. The very first morning after my first dose of subs I woke up and had been up over an hour before I even realized I hadn't thought about taking anything yet. It was really amazing! Now I rarely ever take my dose until afternoon sometime...I just don't think about it like I used to my pills. It is such a burden off of me! I know you can do it Mikey, and I'm glad that what I said helped you just a little. I know that when it comes down to it nothing any of us say is going to be able to get you through the pain....but you have the power inside you to do it on your own. It's only one day of withdrawal to begin the rest of your life free of the pain and control of drugs. When you think about it it really isn't that big of a deal is it? Only one day and then you have the rest of your life not to feel that way ever again.

Good luck!


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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 3:15 pm 
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that rearrange the furniture is a new one to me. but it sounds awesome. even tho i have gotten thru the first day ( and i totally know the routine of waking up to use first thing) i still love that idea. i am going to do some rearranging this week to help with the "i use at home" triggers!!! qhorsegal i really relate to using was always on my mind too and the fact now for the last two months have been a totally new waking up experience for me is a Godsend. good luck mikey you can do this


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 2:51 pm 
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i'm really bummed.. for some reason the subs just arent working.. i waited 24 hours till in pretty damn bad withdrawl took 4 mg then anotehr 4 mg and basically nothing.. i felt a tiny bit of relief but not enough to prevent me from using.. i ended up of course then going and getting a couple bags using just to feel well and get threw my day. why does this keep happening!! i'm so frusturated and just want back on the subs!! arggh


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 4:12 pm 
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You may need more than 4 or 8 mg to satisfy your cravings. You're the only one that can ascertain that.

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