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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:05 pm 
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Hello, I'm new to the forum. I decided to look for & register with a forum for suboxone because I'm in the process of weaning off this stuff & yesterday I started taking 2 mgs for the first time & I'm getting scared. I started off at 8mgs a day, sometimes I took 16 mgs a day or 12 mgs a day but mostly 8 mg for about a year already. I'm getting sick of using this stuff because I notice MY FEET HURT SO BAD I CANT EVEN WALK SOMETIMES, especially when I first wake up in the a.m. & when I'm at work & sit for a long period of time. My feet ALSO HAVE SWELLED SOME TO THE POINT I CANNOT FIT ANY OF MY SHOES. They dont tell you this sh!t when you first start taking this stuff. I'm also experiencing serious depression sometimes, CONSTANT HOT FLASHES (but I AM 50 yrs old, so maybe this is menopause??) - and I just dont have an interest in nothing. I'm wondering if this is a side effect as well?? And, as I reduce my dosage, I'm expecting to go thru SHEER HELL - but I hope not - can anybody please give me some encouragement, support & share their stories/experiences please? I want to stay in touch on this forum with updates and/or progress, if I have any progress ..... I just hope I dont step backwards .....


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:28 pm 
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Hello and welcome to the forum. Happy you decided to join and hope you are as well. Let me congratulate you for being able to reduce your dose down to where you are now at 2mg per day. That was at the very same point I also joined the forum here a little over a month ago now.

I was on a high dose of 24mg per day for almost 3 years and tapered myself down to 2mg as I said. I tried jumping from that dose several times, but the symptoms were too severe for ME and I had to resume taking the 2mg again. I was given several suggestions here by very experienced members and began tapering. I was at .50mg when I had a medical emergency, and stopped the Subutex completely for the surgery. After surgery which was this week I never went back on the subs so I am now clean and finished taking anything! Not the ideal way to do it that's for sure, but the results for me were excellent!

I have absolutely no idea whatsoever about the swollen feet problem you have. Not certain if it could be from the subs or another medical problem you may have? Perhaps someone else has knowledge of that issue and will respond to you. I have NEVER heard of that particular problem with subs ever, but that doesn't mean it isn't the reason. The hot flashes could be from menopause as that is a common result reported by many women.

I can tell you from my own experience I had very little problems reducing my dose from 2mg down to .50mg at all. I did have a few days of sweats and cold spells, and some minor RLS issues, and also a couple headaches too. But all these symptoms were entirely manageable. You have to really WANT to get off the sub if that's your desire, and you also have to remember that your getting off very strong and powerful drugs so a little discomfort is certainly to be expected most likely. But it is doable, and I'm sure you can do it also. There are many threads and posts here that you can read by many members that have tapered successfully. The "Stopping Suboxone" section is a good section to read some of those stories.

Just make a plan and try to stick to it. Most suggest tapering slowly and steady by what dose amounts and duration times between reductions that work best for you! You will get all kinds of support, and also many suggestions as I did at the time. Just keep updating your progress as often as possible. I use my thread here as a journal to look back and read to see how far I've come along the way. I'm expecting my first child so I had an extra-incentive to get off at this time. But I REALLY wanted it too, and a positive attitude goes a very long way. Hope this helps and I wish you the best.

Karen xoxo


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:46 pm 
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I'm not sure what it is about buprenorphine treatment that makes people assign every symptom to it... I can assure you that while I have had a number of people who TREATED different pains with buprenorphine, I've never seen it cause pain-- in the feet or elsewhere. The symptoms you describe are classic for plantar fasciitis-- a condition that is fairly common. I've had it myself several times-- but when I was about 45 I finally saw a podiatrist, and haven't had problems since getting inserts into my shoes. The classic symptoms are pain that is the worst when first stepping out of bed, that gets less severe throughout the day. The problem is inflammation that develops in the connective tissue on the bottom of the feet; over the night, inflammatory cells (mast cells) build up, and then when you step down they release a bunch of inflammatory molecules--- histamine and others. After you walk for a while, the mast cells become depleted---- until you sit down or get off your feet for a little while, when it comes back again.

Hot flashes could be menopause, or may be opioid-mediated; all opioids, including buprenorphine, can cause excessive sweating.

As for other side effects... buprenorphine does the same things as other opioids-- nothing more. There are reasons to taper, but foot pain isn't one of them.

I just took in a new/old patient-- someone who stopped buprenorphine 3 years ago, and is using IV heroin now. My own relapse, years ago, occurred after 7 years of great recovery (several meetings per week, etc....). If you don't want to take buprenorphine for the long haul (something that many people are better off doing), then remember that you will need to do something ELSE-- i.e. change your personality--- for the long haul. I see people stop buprenorphine for a month quite often; I lso asee many people relapse after several months or several years. This isn't a fate I wish on anyone--- rather, late relapse is the one thing about opioid dependence that every addict will learn, at some point, to take seriously.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:58 pm 
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^ There are quite enough reports about edema and lower leg/ foot pain associated with suboxone use that warrants, at the very least, an eyebrow raise, no? I know you have not experienced it with your patients but what if it is a rare side effect? It's totally possible and enough people bring up the two hand in hand to question it, IMO. I've seen reports from young, old, over weight, regular weight. With no history of edema at any other times.

Do you think it's at all possible, subdoc, for this to be a rare side effect of either the bupe or the naloxone? Or all just a coincidence?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:06 pm 
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I don't think that joint pain is something that most people on suboxone experience, so I'm not surprised that Dr. J. hasn't seen it in his practice. And I also think that when people are feeling negative about suboxone they're more likely to blame it for anything that comes along.

However, after I was on suboxone for a couple of weeks at 16 mg/day I noticed that my hips and knees were hurting more than normal. Now, having been on a lot of percocet before I was induced on sub, I was unsure about how my body really felt anymore. It didn't get any worse, but it didn't get better either. When I decided to taper I went slow and steady. At 6 mg the joint pain was suddenly gone! It hasn't recurred. While it's obvious to me that the joint pain was related to suboxone, I was so happy with how well it worked on my addiction that I was perfectly willing to put up with it as an annoying side effect. I feel very fortunate to have sub as a tool in my arsenal!

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:26 pm 
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I would say that this may be a condition not related to taking suboxone. But side effects are different for everyone look up complete findings of side effects in suboxone most companies only list the most common or dangerous one when getting their product out on the market.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:14 am 
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I'm not a Dr ... Cutting down on Suboxone will most likely increase your depression for a while .. Also try sticking to a specific amt a day , changing all the time or even once in a while is going to be tough on the brain ... 8 mgs might be a lot for you , I have always believed it best for the brain to work on what it has to do , creating the needed chemicals to be happy , or at least happier ..... Maybe it's time to realize the minute we ( you and I ) turned the corner on opiate dependence we were never going to be able to get back to that place we were ...... Please don't blame Suboxone , I don't think you are your just tired of all the shit that goes along with still needing opiates , Mike


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:10 pm 
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Brown Eyed Girl wrote:
Hello and welcome to the forum. Happy you decided to join and hope you are as well. Let me congratulate you for being able to reduce your dose down to where you are now at 2mg per day. That was at the very same point I also joined the forum here a little over a month ago now ..... Karen xoxo
Hi Karen :) Thanx a mil for sharing, that's just what I need. When you said you tried "jumping from that dose several times", what do you mean - you tried to lower too much of the dose?

I'm ok. I just started the 2 mgs 2 days ago, so I'm not gonna get comfortable YET lol ..... I'm hoping I wont go thru what I went thru years ago when I got off Tylenol/codeine. I went to rehab, they had me on "medication" for some days, lowered the dose every day, then took me off the medication completely. When i went home major withdrawal kicked in & i swear i never wanna go thru that again.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:16 pm 
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suboxdoc wrote:
I'm not sure what it is about buprenorphine treatment that makes people assign every symptom to it... I can assure you that while I have had a number of people who TREATED different pains with buprenorphine, I've never seen it cause pain-- in the feet or elsewhere. The symptoms you describe are classic for plantar fasciitis-- a condition that is fairly common. I've had it myself several times-- but when I was about 45 I finally saw a podiatrist, and haven't had problems since getting inserts into my shoes. The classic symptoms are pain that is the worst when first stepping out of bed, that gets less severe throughout the day. The problem is inflammation that develops in the connective tissue on the bottom of the feet; over the night, inflammatory cells (mast cells) build up, and then when you step down they release a bunch of inflammatory molecules--- histamine and others. After you walk for a while, the mast cells become depleted---- until you sit down or get off your feet for a little while, when it comes back again.

Hot flashes could be menopause, or may be opioid-mediated; all opioids, including buprenorphine, can cause excessive sweating.

As for other side effects... buprenorphine does the same things as other opioids-- nothing more. There are reasons to taper, but foot pain isn't one of them.

I just took in a new/old patient-- someone who stopped buprenorphine 3 years ago, and is using IV heroin now. My own relapse, years ago, occurred after 7 years of great recovery (several meetings per week, etc....). If you don't want to take buprenorphine for the long haul (something that many people are better off doing), then remember that you will need to do something ELSE-- i.e. change your personality--- for the long haul. I see people stop buprenorphine for a month quite often; I lso asee many people relapse after several months or several years. This isn't a fate I wish on anyone--- rather, late relapse is the one thing about opioid dependence that every addict will learn, at some point, to take seriously.

Hi Subdoc .... thanx ALOT for the good info - 'preciate it. When I first got clean i NEVER thought i'd relapse. i was so confident in myself. now i'm not so cocky lol. its like relapse will make you pay more attention to your addiction & the triggers ..... its a very scary thing .....


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:20 pm 
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tinydancer wrote:
^ There are quite enough reports about edema and lower leg/ foot pain associated with suboxone use that warrants, at the very least, an eyebrow raise, no? I know you have not experienced it with your patients but what if it is a rare side effect? It's totally possible and enough people bring up the two hand in hand to question it, IMO. I've seen reports from young, old, over weight, regular weight. With no history of edema at any other times.

Do you think it's at all possible, subdoc, for this to be a rare side effect of either the bupe or the naloxone? Or all just a coincidence?

yea i've seen stories too about quite a BIT of people complaining of the same thing - foot & leg pain, swelling, unable to walk comfortably, etc., and these are things that were not going on until they started using suboxone .....
like myself, i didnt have ANY problems with my feet til i started using suboxone. i'm wondering if i can sue the pharmaceutical company that makes it - bcz THIS "side effect" is NOT listed as a side effect on any of the medicine's info pamphlets & write-ups ....


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:25 pm 
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Amy-Work In Progress wrote:
I don't think that joint pain is something that most people on suboxone experience, so I'm not surprised that Dr. J. hasn't seen it in his practice. And I also think that when people are feeling negative about suboxone they're more likely to blame it for anything that comes along.

However, after I was on suboxone for a couple of weeks at 16 mg/day I noticed that my hips and knees were hurting more than normal. Now, having been on a lot of percocet before I was induced on sub, I was unsure about how my body really felt anymore. It didn't get any worse, but it didn't get better either. When I decided to taper I went slow and steady. At 6 mg the joint pain was suddenly gone! It hasn't recurred. While it's obvious to me that the joint pain was related to suboxone, I was so happy with how well it worked on my addiction that I was perfectly willing to put up with it as an annoying side effect. I feel very fortunate to have sub as a tool in my arsenal!

Amy

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geezus good for you :)
i'm at 2mg now but my feet still hurt. i'm hoping as i continue to taper this foot pain will go away - you should see how i look in the morning when i get outta bed & try to walk. i'm taking like extremely short quik steps leaning forward, trying to keep pressure off my feet as much as possible & using my walls for support bcz it hurts so damn much - it's embarrassing as hell i wouldnt want ANYBODY to see me like that. i SWEAR i wish it would go away. the foot pain & sweating has been PURE HELL for me .....


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:30 pm 
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Itsybitsyspider510 wrote:
I would say that this may be a condition not related to taking suboxone. But side effects are different for everyone look up complete findings of side effects in suboxone most companies only list the most common or dangerous one when getting their product out on the market.

thanx :)
some time ago i looked up "foot pain/suboxone" & i came up with quite a few sites where people complained about their feet gettng fk'd up while on suboxone. even when i was on percocets i didnt have any problems with my feet. my knees ache sometimes too .....


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:44 pm 
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In The Midst wrote:

Hi Karen :) Thanx a mil for sharing, that's just what I need. When you said you tried "jumping from that dose several times", what do you mean - you tried to lower too much of the dose?



Hey there,

I was afraid you had disappeared on us. :D I'm happy you returned. You have received lots of great responses and I hope they all helped.

What I meant by "jumping" from that 2mg dose several times is that I just tried completely stopping, or quitting taking the sub at 2mg many different times, and never took another dose. I wanted off it very bad and tried to get off at 2mg many different times. The symptoms got way too severe for ME and I had to get right back on the 2mg. I needed help on a taper plan from 2mg and joined here at that time.

I received so many suggestions, and so much support from many members here and all of the advice was great! In the end I made a plan of my own and tapered as I saw fit. I got down to .50mg and had to have emergency surgery to remove my appendix several days ago. I stopped taking the sub for 1 day, had the surgery, and took pain pills in the hospital for 1 day only. I went home with no narcotics whatsoever!

So the surgery actually helped get me off the subs! I'm expecting my first child and wanted, or rather needed to be off everything. In the end it wasn't necessarily the way to do things, but it sure worked out great! :D

Today is my 4th day CLEAN of everything and I couldn't be happier! :D Nothing better than to get up each day and never having to worry about taking something to get the day moving forward!

If you feel it's time to get off the subs please listen to the members here. They have lots of experience and wil provide you with great suggestions as they did me. In the end it has to be what's right for YOU alone, and what works best for you in my opinion. If you want to taper from the 2mg then figure out what amount you can lower your dose and go with that for now. Maybe something like 10% or even more every 7 days or so if the symptoms are tolerable? That's just one example. I reduced by .25mg after the first couple reductions. I went from 1.75mg, to 1.50mg, to 1.25mg, to 1mg, to .75mg, and finally to .50mg when the surgery came up. I would have tapered to .25mg and maybe once more to .125mg and then jumping again for the final time.

So far I've had no symptoms at all! They may come later, but I will deal with them if they do. You can do this, there's no doubt of that. A very positive atitude goes a long, long way in this! Good luck and if I can be of ANY help along your way please don't hesitate to let me know!

Karen xoxo


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:20 pm 
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Brown Eyed Girl wrote:
In The Midst wrote:

Hi Karen :) Thanx a mil for sharing, that's just what I need. When you said you tried "jumping from that dose several times", what do you mean - you tried to lower too much of the dose?



Hey there,

I was afraid you had disappeared on us. :D I'm happy you returned. You have received lots of great responses and I hope they all helped.

Karen xoxo



Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii again :)
No, you didnt lose me, I'm still here. I get busy during the day & dont think logging in but it crossed my mind yesterday. I wanted to say hi & share a lil good news lol -- i mentioned here my FEET giving me problems & associated it with suboxone. while i was taking 8-16 mg i couldn't get so much as 1/4 of my foot into my shoes. i tapered down to 2mg & this morning i tried on my shoe & my foot went alot more into my shoes than before - ALMOST my whole foot into my shoes & i was ALMOST able to walk comfortably in them. i haven't worn high heels in so LONG bcz i had a foot issue & required surgery. I had the surgery, then recovery FROM surgery and NOW the suboxone - my feet are taking a beating ..... seems like my feet are going back to normal!! That was very encouraging & made me relax with worrying about my feet never being the same again. I guess it's just a matter of time before my life returns back to normal & i'll be my total self again & i'll be able to fit into my SHOES ........


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:05 pm 
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Hi in the Midst!

When you were questioning " Jumping from 2mg several times" That means the same as "Quitting from 2mg several times. People use the lingo Jump instead of stop or quit suboxone. So if you see that, that is what it means.

The foot swelling is def a side effect of any opiates. It is the water retention, i.e. swelling in general and constipation. Those are side effects of opiates (Suboxone included)

The lower the dose the better to reduce the side effects. I would go as low as possible but still have Suboxone stop your cravings. So wherever that is, and you may have to play around with the dose to get the least amount of side effects but get the full coverage of mental cravings.

Hope your feet keep getting better.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:15 am 
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I had a bit of an issue with swelling in my extremities, especially hands, while on the maintenance dose of 8mg. I later figured out it was because I was eating sunflower seeds like crazy while we were watching the boys baseball games. I've always been a salt freak, but salt and suboxone aren't a good combo! :wink:

Not sure if the suboxone makes you more likely to be effected by it, but when I quit the sunflower seeds I could actually fit my rings back on my fingers again!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:35 pm 
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I've been on suboxone for a year and a half and managed to stabilize at.5mg every 24 hours. I have been having foot problems for the last year but I wrote it off to age and the fact that I am a mechanic and on my feet all day. I actually feel better reading this is a side affect because maybe I wont have these pains for much longer. As far as the swelling, I read that people that sit a lot like truck drivers, pilots and office workers have problems with circulation and end up with problems in their legs and feet. It is a struggle yes but its worth it. I weened off a few years ago only taking a minimal about only when I really needed to sleep and it only took 4 weeks.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:30 pm 
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Hello Everybody .....

How are you all doing?? I dont come to this sight often because usually I'm busy at work and then I'm not really a "forum" typa person. But I need to be here because I'm on suboxone & need answers, support. I'm stopping by today to say hello & give an update on my progress. I think the last time I was here I was at 2 mgs. Now I started a lower dose of 1 mg. And I'm definitely starting to feel withdrawal symptoms after like ..... maybe 18-19 hrs. - I'm not going the full 24 hrs before needing that next dose. And within the 18 hrs my body feels kinda outta sorts & I'm crankier than a MF!!!!

A couple of times I winded up taking the next dose (1 mg) BEFORE the 24 hr period passed, I took it after 18 hrs bcz my body started experiencing withdrawal symptoms. Not heavy symptoms, lightweight symptoms, but discomfort nonetheless. I HATEEEEEEEEEEEEE that feeling. My GOD that is one of THE WORST FEELINGS to have .....

So I'm wondering if I'm doing the right thing. I figured I AM, bcz lowering the dose & eventually getting OFF of it is the goal, and I figured either way, at SOME point I'mma experience some discomfort & withdrawal symptoms, no sense in running away from it or avoiding it by staying at a dose that I'm "comfortable" with, bcz that's not getting OFF of it. That's maintenance. I wanna get OFF this shit completely.

So ..... I gotta ask you guys ASAP, am I doing this right?

Oh - by the way - good news :) my feet HAVE improved LOL - they're not as swollen, the swelling HAS gone down some, I was able to get more of my foot into my shoes & even bought a new pair of shoes at my regular size & the fit was FINE :) :)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:31 pm 
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p.s. --- to all of the posters in this thread - THANK YOU MUCH for your replies - they are very helpful and appreciated ..... :)


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:47 pm 
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My hands and feet hurt - especially my feet - but they don't seem swollen. In fact, I would say its the only side effect I've been having since I started on Subutex 6 weeks ago. I take 10mg once a day. The pain is pretty intense at times but overall I am doing well and have no regrets so far.


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